Arrow Weights, Spine, and FOC (updated)

Discussion in 'Scorpyd Crossbows' started by Ventilator, Sep 22, 2010.

  1. Ventilator

    Ventilator Active Member

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    ....to make up a chart. It seems that most crossbow arrows don't have a weight printed on the packaging except Carbon Express. I ordered some Carbon Express Aramid KV, and some Victory X-Bolts yesterday. I also was checking some others out locally, and actually bought a 5 pack of the 22" Barnett Crossbow Arrows for $29.97 at Wally World. They come with 125 gr field tips, but I will try them with 100 gr tips. Four are very uniform in weight (w/100 gr tip) 417.3, 417.5, 417.7, 417.7, and one lone duck at 416 gr. Still closer than the Gold Tips, the fletching is offset right, and much better done. The spine on these are much stiffer than the GT Laser II, but they have a spiral wrap that is not as smooth. They have a much lower FOC than the GT Laser II as well. It also says they are made in the USA, but no idea of by who? Never know, they might shoot great?

    What I would like is for everyone that knows the weight and FOC of their 22" arrows, to please post the information. I will compile it into a chart at a later date. This could save others from having to buy arrows that they have no idea of what the weight is. It would sure be nice if all the manufacturers listed this in the innformation on the packaging.

    Please list all arrow weights with 100 gr tip, or specify 125 gr, or other weight tip.

    Gold Tip Laser II, 2" VaneTec vanes (w/100 gr tip)
    22" = 395-397 gr
    FOC = 21.4%

    Carbon Express Surge), 4" vanes (according to packaging) (w/100 gr tip)
    20" = 427 gr
    22" = 462 gr

    Carbon Express Aramid KV, 2" Fusion Vanes (w/100 gr tip)
    22" = 428 gr actual (437 gr listed weight)
    FOC = 10.1%

    Barnett Crossbow Arrows, 4" vanes (w/100 gr tip)
    22" = 417.5 gr
    FOC = 11.2%

    Victory X-Bolt, 4" Duravanes, 92 gr brass insert (w/100 gr tip)
    22" = 421.5 gr
    FOC = 17%

    Victory X-Bolt, 4" Duravanes, 67.7 gr brass insert (w/100 gr tip)
    22" = 398 gr
    FOC = 14.91%
    I will add the FOC's later, when I figure them all up together. (added)

    Thanks for any information.
     
  2. Tucker

    Tucker Member

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    I posted some similar information last week that you might be able to use in your list. The post is in the General Crossbow Discussions section, and it is titled Front of Center Numbers. Both arrows have the same type of 2" Vanes. The arrow weights were rounded to the nearest even grain.
     
  3. Ventilator

    Ventilator Active Member

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    Thanks Fieldtip! I guess I should have posted this in the General Crossbow Discussion as well, there would be much more traffic. I am just trying to find a better arrow to suit the 165, but this information can be of value to all. My other arrows are scheduled to be delivered tomorrow, so I shoud have more numbers and some actual testing this weekend.

    Your numbers are for the 20" arrows, but will still be useful in figuring out what a 22" might weigh. We need 22" arrow information for the Scorpyds, but this information will be useful to others.

    Thanks!
     
  4. ezmoover

    ezmoover Senior Member

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    I have been playing with an arrow similar to this one and have been very pleased with it's performance.

    22" GT LaserII
    2" Vanetec HP (RH + 4* offset)
    20gr Al flats
    110gr brass insert + 2(two) 20gr insert screws, stacked

    field tip 100gr 20.9% FOC
    Montec 100gr 19.1 FOC
    Thunderhead 100gr 18.2 FOC
    Spitfire 100gr 18.7% FOC

    I was trying to find an arrow where Thunderheads would fly great. This one does well. Consistently getting sub 2" groups at 40 yds. The THeads do shoot ~2" lower than FPs at 40. The Montecs are virtually FP precise.

    I included the Spitfires and Montecs for reference because that's what I typically use.

    (Sorry, I'm not a Scorp shooter but thought I'd fling this one over anyway)
     
  5. Ventilator

    Ventilator Active Member

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    Updated some information (FOC's) in the first post. One thing I will say, is them Koreans can build a uniform arrow, from the nock, shaft, and insert all the same size. These arrows spin test perfectly with bullet points. Will try with a broadhead this weekend.

    The Victory arrows have a brass insert like the Gold Tip Laser II's, but it is the lighter 92 gr version, instead of the 110 gr version, thus lower FOC.

    Really hoping these Aramids shoot as good as they look. Might have to put a 125 gr tip to give them more FOC. It says they have "Built In Weight Forward), but I don't agree with that statement, and the low FOC of 10% proves it IMO.

    If anyone would like to add some other arrows information, I would appreciate it.

    Thanks!
     
  6. bigbuckmiddaugh

    bigbuckmiddaugh New Member

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    has anyone taken the gold tip brass insert, cut it down to lower FOC (do not glue in till you got what you want OR use a reversable glue),maybe with a 75 grain point (depending apon total arrow weight) i would want around 400 grain, max FPS and put 2.3 or 1.8 3D duravanes on them,because they are low profile. With that speed don't go higher than 2.3, i would start with 1.8 3D
    Straight,no offset or helical. Thats what i was going to do. Someone try that! I have components and such...no 165.
     
  7. Ventilator

    Ventilator Active Member

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    The Gold Tip and the Victory brass inserts must be made by the same vendor, the I.D. and O.D is not concentric. This really is a problem if you want an arrow to pass a spin test, an IMO is very important with a broadhead. Don't know who makes their inserts, but a blind man can see they are not concentric. The collar on all of these will be higher than the shaft on one half, and lower than the shaft on the other half. To be fair, there are a couple degrees out of the 360 where they are even with the shaft, but only because it is transitioning from one mismatch to the other. :rolleyes:

    I cannot believe that Gold Tip and Victory are even putting this junk on their arrows. I really didn't like seeing the "Made In Korea" on my Carbon Experess Aramid KV's, I like made in the USA products, but I think these guys could take a few lessons from the Koreans on how to build concentric arrows.

    The inserts that came with my Victory arrows weighs 92 grains, with a total weight of 421.5 grains w/100 gr tip, and a 17% FOC. The Victory shaft looks just like the Gold Tip, but is obviously thicker walled and has a heavier spine. If you could get an insert at about 70 grains for the Victory, you could get it down to 400 gr w/100 gr tip. Another option would be to use lighter aluminum inserts, the heaviest aluminum inserts, I think they make some in mid to high 40's that hafe a thicker collar, and then use a heavier 125 gr tip to get up to the 400 gr ball park. The FOC would change to a lower percentage, but not sure how much.

    I really don't like the brass inserts because they are not concentric, and may see if I can find some of the heavier aluminm inserts, or add weight to some of the lighter ones by putting a screw or some weight in the inside of the insert.

    Gold Tip and Victory should be ashamed, putting those crappily made inserts in their arrows! I am embarrased for them. :(
     
  8. Tucker

    Tucker Member

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    Gold Tip and Victory should be ashamed, putting those crappily made inserts in their arrows! I am embarrased for them. :(

    I would have to agree with you on this. I noticed the difference in point of impact on each arrow, some fly perfect and I turned the nock and they hit perfect no matter which way the nock is indexed. Others don't hit the same P.O.I. but if you turn the nock you can get them close. I tried this at 20yds. I haven't tried this at 40yds. yet but my suspicion is they will be different again. They would not be off by what I would call "a lot" , or noticeably if I were shooting a vertical bow but with a crossbow I know I am capable of more precision as I am using a bench rest..
     
  9. Ventilator

    Ventilator Active Member

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    I found a new combination that I THINK might be the best combination for weight, spine, and FOC. I will not be able to test for a day or two, because I have to glue in these inserts. I will do three of the arrow with these 67.7 gr inserts, and 3 with the 92 grain inserts as supplied. I do have to bump up the O.D. on these inserts a couple thousandths, but that is not a problem. These inserts are concentric, and should be the best setup for matching the weight and speed of the supplied GT's. With Victory's thicker walls, stiffer spine, and lower FOC, I can't wait to see how they shoot. Here are the new stats with the new inserts. So, for you guys that don't want to give up the speed, this could be IT!

    Victory X-Bolt, 4" Duravanes, 67.7 gr brass insert (w/100 gr tip)
    22" = 398 gr
    FOC = 14.91%
     
  10. buckshot-0

    buckshot-0 New Member

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    Maxima Hunters, 5" vanes, 125gr tip
    466 gr @ 22"
    FOC= 11.6

    2 arrows now have rippled vanes from penetrating into the fletching and they still group with the others. 2 1/2" @ 40yds.

    I don't have access to a chrono, so I can't tell you the speed. Sorry.
     

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