16 replies to this topic

[xranger]

Just saw this on Archery Talk.

http://www.archeryta...d.php?t=1327080

[Hurricane]

Kinda the way I had figured it would go down. Too much opposition to them yet. I don't care, I'm 65 and there ain't nothin' they can do to me for using one. Should have been allowed to years ago when I suffered an industrial accident that left me with an untrustworthy elbow joint. But, the therapist hated hunting in general and wouldn't sign off.

Oh well, back to the drawing board.

'Cane

[buckeye dan]

I poked my nose under the tent of the Wisconsin political machine not too long ago. I was trying to decide if I wanted to get involved with the crossbow issues there. The situation is quite simple. The political climate is hostile to crossbows and the folks that like it to be crossbow hostile are the controlling force. Until that power shifts you'll get more of the same when crossbows are the topic.

Recruit more pro crossbow folks than the anti crossbow folks are able to and maybe you'll make some head way.

[quadkiller]

its only about ignorance, and greed. bow hunters want less people in the woods with them. anyone who uses a xbow know they are archery equipment. many first timers are shocked how similar they are, or surprised they cant shoot one 100 yds. the best way to fight them is with facts. the facts show the truth that they cant argue against with their bias statements.

[Hurricane]

Need some drastic changes and hitting these people with "facts" isn't really going to work...Have to hit them with NUMBERS, and, that isn't possible at this time at least from what I've seen in my 65 years in this state. The lobby's "against" are too strong. Maybe with the advent of the baby boomers getting into the sport something will change, but, I'm not hopefully as far as the foreseeable future. Kinda surprised me that they actually approve the fishing aspect. A small step?????

'Cane

[Hoosier Hunter]

They could very well be the last hold out just like Georgia was with compounds. But, my money is on New York.

Some day the powers to be will see that every state all around them are using crossbows and getting good results and then they will put two and two together and see that these anti-crossbowers have been telling lies to them all along.

Katy bar the door then...

[BigBowMan]

They tried like hell to stop the inclusion of crossbows by permit or retirement age but couldn't stop it! They will lose the battle in the end! I will continue to support and lobby for full-inclusion of crossbows!

[Hurricane]

With ya on that 100% my friend. Come the end of February will have all kinds of time to do it, too.

[Redclub]

I am one of the ol guys too and use a x-bow, it shoud be included for all and it will come.Next spring it will be 55 and over question in the spring CC meetings. Then impemented for 2012 (maybe 2011) then only a matter of time for full inclusion. The WBH has some clout and will fight it. A lot of folks realy like Rancid and he carries a lot of weight.
Redclub

[BigBowMan]

They couldn't stop compound bows and they won't stop crossbows! They may get it delayed but in the end, they won't stop them!

[j3cub]

RC and others like him may feel they have the upper hand, but they don't have arguments which carry much weight with all Wisconsin hunters. There are more gun hunters and bow hunters who do not agree with the WBH's position and think crosssbows should be allowed. WBH is still a small group. Gun hunters are voicing concerns about the bow hunters shooting too many bucks, and having too long of season which they are unwilling to share with anyone else, in other words, too much greed. Crossbows are a way gun hunters can have a shot at some of these bucks and a longer season in better weather. I am seeing it already. Get hunters together and they are complaining about bow hunters. Since the law must be changed, law makers are also noting the basic unfairness of the WBH's position. When you ask them what the state's interest in preventing crossbows, they don't have a reason.

When I look at all the comments among ourselves, talking to the converted, and wonder how much better our time would be spent is we wrote the same thoughts to legislators in states which do not allow crossbows...what progress we would make in getting these unfair laws changed.


If you are a Wisconsin resident, you still need to do the basics. Call or write your legislators and ask that they support the age 55 change as a first step and crossbow use for everyone as the final solution. If you have some sort of disability which did not meet the state's standards for issuing a permit, tell your legislators why you think the process is unfair. Tell them you think having to spend a lot of money to have a physical exam is not fair. If you have been denied, explain how you were unfairly treated. Fully explain what your problems are. Make your case! Stop complaining that the RCs of the world are preventing you from reaching your goal!

If you are not a Wisconsin resident, but live in s state which allows crossbows, write our legislators and tell them how you feel that a small minority of bow hunters are preventing a large potential majority from enjoying the archery season. Explain how it is working in your state. Tell them why you are not hunting in Wisconsin because of our law. For example I write Canada''s MPs to tell them why I do not visit Canada to hunt or fish. It is all about their gun registration law...If Canada's government feels that American Sportsman are the cause of their gun crime, I will not spend money on a vacation in Canada! Canada just missed having that law repealed by a few votes, maybe we will get it next time.

Think of your letter to one of our legislators as a way of supporting the Wisconsin Crossbow Federation or other state pro-crossbow organization. It takes no more time to write a letter to a legislator than writing a reply on this link.

If you are not a member of the Wisconsin Crossbow Federation or the American Crossbow Federation, join, it is money well spend. The Wisconsin Crossbow Federation address is P.O.Box 1033, Grafton, WI 53024. The WBH have a paid lobby to push their cause of anti-crossbowism we have volunteers. I will take the volunteers any day.

The end game is to eliminate discrimination against crossbow use. You win this game by talking to your friends, fellow hunters, getting your friends to join you at Conservation Congress Spring hearings and voting on pro-crossbow conservation members, but this might not be the best approach or only method we have at our disposal. The Conservation Congress is dominated by WBH members, so we will go directly to the legislators. The Conservation Congress may not like this, but they should not allow their organization to be dominated by special interest like the WBH. Already, some Conservation Congress committee heads are trying to direct crossbow issues away from those committees which have too many WBH members to committee where the issue will get a fair hearing.

RC can only sell his version of a "racist like anti-crossbow" agenda on how Wisconsin's resources and recreational opportunity should be distributed among residents of the state in forums where his side has a numerical majority, but our argument is about basic fairness and the right of all Americans to be treated fairly and with equal protection under the law. This is an argument which can be understood by everyone. All we are asking for is the right of choice, and not to be told by the RCs of the world that our choice is restricted to "their way or the highway".

Yes we are going to win this fight, but the more of us who actually make an effort to make a change happen, other than just talking about it, the faster it will take place.

[buckeye dan]

j3cub, on 10 October 2010 - 10:57 PM, said:

RC and others like him may feel they have the upper hand, but they don't have arguments which carry much weight with all Wisconsin hunters. There are more gun hunters and bow hunters who do not agree with the WBH's position and think crosssbows should be allowed. WBH is still a small group. Gun hunters are voicing concerns about the bow hunters shooting too many bucks, and having too long of season which they are unwilling to share with anyone else, in other words, too much greed. Crossbows are a way gun hunters can have a shot at some of these bucks and a longer season in better weather. I am seeing it already. Get hunters together and they are complaining about bow hunters. Since the law must be changed, law makers are also noting the basic unfairness of the WBH's position. When you ask them what the state's interest in preventing crossbows, they don't have a reason.

When I look at all the comments among ourselves, talking to the converted, and wonder how much better our time would be spent is we wrote the same thoughts to legislators in states which do not allow crossbows...what progress we would make in getting these unfair laws changed.


If you are a Wisconsin resident, you still need to do the basics. Call or write your legislators and ask that they support the age 55 change as a first step and crossbow use for everyone as the final solution. If you have some sort of disability which did not meet the state's standards for issuing a permit, tell your legislators why you think the process is unfair. Tell them you think having to spend a lot of money to have a physical exam is not fair. If you have been denied, explain how you were unfairly treated. Fully explain what your problems are. Make your case! Stop complaining that the RCs of the world are preventing you from reaching your goal!

If you are not a Wisconsin resident, but live in s state which allows crossbows, write our legislators and tell them how you feel that a small minority of bow hunters are preventing a large potential majority from enjoying the archery season. Explain how it is working in your state. Tell them why you are not hunting in Wisconsin because of our law. For example I write Canada''s MPs to tell them why I do not visit Canada to hunt or fish. It is all about their gun registration law...If Canada's government feels that American Sportsman are the cause of their gun crime, I will not spend money on a vacation in Canada! Canada just missed having that law repealed by a few votes, maybe we will get it next time.

Think of your letter to one of our legislators as a way of supporting the Wisconsin Crossbow Federation or other state pro-crossbow organization. It takes no more time to write a letter to a legislator than writing a reply on this link.

If you are not a member of the Wisconsin Crossbow Federation or the American Crossbow Federation, join, it is money well spend. The Wisconsin Crossbow Federation address is P.O.Box 1033, Grafton, WI 53024. The WBH have a paid lobby to push their cause of anti-crossbowism we have volunteers. I will take the volunteers any day.

The end game is to eliminate discrimination against crossbow use. You win this game by talking to your friends, fellow hunters, getting your friends to join you at Conservation Congress Spring hearings and voting on pro-crossbow conservation members, but this might not be the best approach or only method we have at our disposal. The Conservation Congress is dominated by WBH members, so we will go directly to the legislators. The Conservation Congress may not like this, but they should not allow their organization to be dominated by special interest like the WBH. Already, some Conservation Congress committee heads are trying to direct crossbow issues away from those committees which have too many WBH members to committee where the issue will get a fair hearing.

RC can only sell his version of a "racist like anti-crossbow" agenda on how Wisconsin's resources and recreational opportunity should be distributed among residents of the state in forums where his side has a numerical majority, but our argument is about basic fairness and the right of all Americans to be treated fairly and with equal protection under the law. This is an argument which can be understood by everyone. All we are asking for is the right of choice, and not to be told by the RCs of the world that our choice is restricted to "their way or the highway".

Yes we are going to win this fight, but the more of us who actually make an effort to make a change happen, other than just talking about it, the faster it will take place.

Awesome advice and one for the play books...But...(You knew there would be a "but") Ohio sent the best we have (Which may well be the best there is on earth where white tail deer biology is concerned.) Mike Tonkovich. If he couldn't convince the powers that be the method of harvest is insignificant then WI is screwed until you get your political interests out of office so that real science can be applied. I am not talking about political science either.

You have people that thought it would be a good thing to "dance with wolves" and "slaughter CWD infected animals", in charge. The same folks that give audience to the likes of HSUS and consider their input as science. The same folks that allow the influence of a few thousand votes promised to represent hundreds of thousands of hunters. Most of those authorities being opposed to all forms of hunting but willing to toss a scrap from their table for something in return.

Purge the political machine and you will gain some ground.

[Hurricane]

As past National Secretary of PROTECT AMERICAN RIGHTS AND RESOURCES (PARR) During the treaty rights fiasco, I have been there and done that so to speak. At that time our problem was the southern part of the state saw nothing wrong and with the treaty rights and, pretty much viewed it as a non-issue, because they saw it as a "Northern issue" "It don't affect the lakes I fish so, who cares. Why should I get involved" We all know where that ended up.

This issue, however, affects anyone who holds a valid hunting license in the state, so J3cub and Dan's points are VERY valid. Complaining about it in a bar or on here ain't gonna do any good. This affects everyone. The place to take your complaints is to the people elected to work for you, (supposedly), down in Madison.

Basically the WBH is holding everyone hostage with their agenda against the use of crossbows and the time has come for the rest of us to do something about it. As was stated they are a small (compared to the number of licenses sold) group. I used to belong, but, don't, anymore, because of several of the views held by them.

I HAVE written my elected officials on this matter SEVERAL times and to date have received ONE reply. That was a boiler plate email thanking me for my concern and promising to "look" into the matter. Needless to say, they aren't getting my vote come November. A shake up down in Madison is needed in the worse way.

BUT, by the same token have written to, and posted questions on the Wisconsin Crossbow Federation and received the same response from them. ZIP!! one would think they could at LEAST have the courtesy to respond to someone who has an interest in their organization and would like some minor questions answered before plunking down their hard earned cash.

(climbing down from the soap box, now) sorry for the vent.

'Cane

[KLS]

buckeye dan, on 11 October 2010 - 03:30 AM, said:

WI is screwed until you get your political interests out of office so that real science can be applied. I am not talking about political science either.

You have people that thought it would be a good thing to "dance with wolves" and "slaughter CWD infected animals", in charge. The same folks that give audience to the likes of HSUS and consider their input as science. The same folks that allow the influence of a few thousand votes promised to represent hundreds of thousands of hunters. Most of those authorities being opposed to all forms of hunting but willing to toss a scrap from their table for something in return.

you said it all right there...


http://www.wsn.org/w...ddestroyed.html long read, but just skimming over it gives you the jest of whats going on, and it just goes to show what the norm, not the exception, of what the mentality and actions of the wis dnr is, and this is this one case, and this mentality seems to rule over everything the dnr does...

[buckeye dan]

KLS, on 11 October 2010 - 01:36 PM, said:

you said it all right there...


http://www.wsn.org/w...ddestroyed.html long read, but just skimming over it gives you the jest of whats going on, and it just goes to show what the norm, not the exception, of what the mentality and actions of the wis dnr is, and this is this one case, and this mentality seems to rule over everything the dnr does...

KLS,
Does any resident of Wisconsin believe that WI DNR had no knowledge of the wetlands they were secretly destroying? In the rest of the US you can't build without specific knowledge of terrain, flood plains, foundation base etc etc. Geological and geographical surveys are done to determine if the location can support the proposed structure. I have friends that are are engineers in this very field. It is a bureaucratic and legal impossibility for them to make that claim. Hence the back filling. They can't even back fill that terrain until it passes the scrutiny of the engineers. The engineers are the very folks that told them you can't build that here until you do X.

We don't build basements in flood plains because we sent a lot of people to college for engineering to tell us where basements are a good idea. We don't erect solid structures on fault lines prone to earth quakes because all of the people educated to prevent that stupidity. We don't spend millions to sink pilings on stone or compacted clay so that a structure can sit on stilts because the education we provided to the engineers to figure all that stuff out know how to do it properly. Right? Wind shear formulas for hurricane and tornado probable areas are part of the building codes! Right?

Someone in charge must be responsible for something shouldn't they? Good luck with that!

[xranger]

Based on what I just read online and what my Son (who lives in WI) told me the election in WI didnt do crossbow supporters any favors. Seems like it will another 2 years until the next election before anything will change.

[Tim50]

xranger, on 03 November 2010 - 04:38 PM, said:

Based on what I just read online and what my Son (who lives in WI) told me the election in WI didnt do crossbow supporters any favors. Seems like it will another 2 years until the next election before anything will change.

The small local anti crossbow organization is well entrenched in the politics of Wi! They even have a paid lobbyist to support their agenda. Wi will not be easy BUT it will happen. As more & more states go full inclusion the data will not be able to be ignored. And remember if they get in bed with the politicians they will be at the whim of the voters. The new governor is supposedly a bow hunter. What will happen if there is a ground swell of support for the crossbow agenda? Is he not supposed to work for the people & not private intrest groups & lobbyists?? ( I don't belivere I just said that!! ) The crossbow inclusion should not be a political football. It should be handled by the DNR types outside the political arena. The small anti hunter/anti crossbow group in WI have made their choice. And for now it is working for them. Any so called hunting organization that pits hunter against hunter should be ashamed of themselves. With all the opposition to hunting out there you do not expect to get it from within our own ranks. A recent poll in WI stated 42% of the hunter supported the crossbow agenda. That is not bad, to start, for a weapon that is not even legal. I expect that number will creep up...BUT 58% of those polled did oppose crossbow. As the facts & data from surrounding states become evident hunters will become educated to the true facts surrounding crossbow inclusion. The biggest fear for the small anti crossbow organizations are facts & data to the average hunter. And the message IS getting out! It will happen in WI...not as soon as we would like but times are changing and WI will also. Do not give up the fight!