61 replies to this topic

[tree rat]

I am in desperate need of advice/help/suggestions with my TRT ultra-lite express.
I have been shooting the TRT for 5 or 6 day and I can not get the CB to shoot anything consistent at all at 30 yards.  
Checked and lock-tite the scope mounts holding the Horton (5 line) package scope. Made sure the 1 1/4 long X 5/16 mounting bolt in the cocking stirrup was tight. Shot 20 times, still no consistency and erratic.
Then I found that the limbs were not tight from the factory so I took it to a archery shop. The shop sells Horton's and the tech there said it was somewhat rare that the limbs came from factory that loose but he tightened them up.
  When I got home I then put the CB in a lead sled with 60lbs. of lead in the tray and still could not get anything close to acceptable groups, left to right was erratic to say the least, up and down were somewhat O.K.
So I had a friend come over today, he has been into crossbows for 25 years has several of his own. After 15 shots he said he has never seen, had or shot a CB that grouped that erratic/badly.
We then took a ratchet strap and strapped the back of the stock of the CB down tight to the lead sled to take as much human error out as possible and then shot at a 1" circle at 30 yards (ranged with range finder). 25 shots later still no consistency. We only used one bolt for all of these shots (Horton 22" MX Carbon with 100gr. practice tip) to remove the arrow to arrow fight problems that sometimes happens even between two identical arrows.
I have a Horton Hunter that I bought new several years ago and never had any problems sighting in the red dot with the accu-dial. I have killed many deer with it, I wonted something with more power and a little more range is why I got the TRT.
I love the feel and look of this light weight powerhouse but not erratic accuracy with practice points. It's driving me NUTS! Only 31 more days of deer season here.
I have hunted with rifles all my life (50 years) and with work and reloading with proper powder and bullets have always been able to get MOA at 100 yards, or I would not keep the rifle. I have shot on a collage (R.O.T.C.) rifle team for 4 years and sight in rifles for most of my friends before hunting season and I have never had any major problems until this.
I know that a CB in not a rifle but groups of 3 or 4" at 30 yards would be something to start to work with. Should I call Horton and see about sending it back? Any help/advice would be greatly welcomed.
What would you suggest/do?  Thanks

[Old Longhair]

Suspect the scope. That sort of irregular shooting is nearly impossible w/o a sight issue.
I had a scope go bad, and I chased every other possibility for almost a year before finally swapping it out. It wasn't as erratic as what you're describing. Mine would dial in pretty well, but only for a little while. Later in the day, or the next day, it would be way off and need to be adjusted again, only to be off again later.

It will drive you crazy!

[rgarey77]

It's up to you, But I would check over everything just to be sure then call Horton frist thing Monday morning explain the happs, I guarantee they will give you a RMA# pay for the pick up have there tec get to the bottom of the problem, fix it or replace it all you have to do is have it packed and ready to go. They have taken care of me a couple times.

Edited by rgarey77, 29 January 2011 - 10:20 AM.

[buckhntr]

check the for screws above the trigger and below the scope

[Moon]

If the 4 side screws are loose, that's the problem. Also make sure that large allen head screw at the top rear is tight.

[tree rat]

Yes the screws above the trigger were loose, all 4 of them. I tried the screw on top of rear sight and it seemed tight but can not get anything in the hex screw because of the mounted scope is in the way. And after all of my work I do not wont to take the scope off. If I have to take the scope off to tighten I have lossed the time I have spent to get it where it is and thats sad!
Now I have found that the screws that hold the cams on the end of the limbs were loose also and I tightend them all but one, and it seemed to be crossthreaded and it just rotates. Will this be a another problem also?
As I stated before the hex bolts that holds the limbs were loose from the factory. Is this the norm? Nowhere in the owners manual does it say to check and torq on ALL screws on the CB before shooting it.
This is a new TRT and I have been working on it for 7 days now for 3-7 hours each day to try and get it accurate enough to hunt with before season closes. I have also taken it to a bow shop (120 miles round trip) and the tech tells me that is is somewhat rare for the hex bolts holding the limbs to be loose much less as loose as they were. There was a 1/4" plus gap between the limbs and bracket holding limbs. There is still a 1/64" gap between left limb and I can not get to tighten out. I am afraid to put any more torq (used a socket wrench and 16" cheater) on it. Will this be another problem?
I don't wont to beat up on Horton but at the very least this seems to be a Q.C. issue.
I don't wont to beleave that I made a mistake buying this TRT. But PROBLEMS is not what I wonted when I bought this CB. I understand that with use things will need to be watched, tightened and corrected over time. But I got this CB to be used to hunt with not a ongoing project. Less than 80 shots and I am not sure I could hit a deer at 30 yards with a lead sled much less hit the vitals.
Going now to shoot it now and see if there are any difference now.

[Moon]

I'd demand a replacement bow.

[tree rat]

O.K. Guys at 30 yards I cant hit a 18" fusion block target! I have worked for 7 days and now it is worse than before. I just lossed two horton carbon mx arrows. What should I do and how do I go about getting in touch with horton. I guess I will see how customer service will be. This makes me very very mad.

[rgarey77]

This might be a little late or I missed it but how are you cocking the crossbow?

[tree rat]

rgarey77 -- I/we have been cocking it by hand. I was going to buy ez cr rope cocker when I was at the bow shop but they had sold out of them, even the one that the tech uses on/for the demo bows.
   Moon ------ I will call Horton Monday and ask for a replacement and see how fast this can all be arranged.

I was so bummed out today.
I was wanting to hunt with it this season. We had bad weather for sighting it in the first few days after I got the TRT. Then we got several days of springtime weather (70 degrees today) and I have been working trying anything/everything to get this CB to shoot consistent.
YES I am hardheaded and stubborn... MY WIFE TRIED AND TRIED TO GET ME TO CALL HORTON TO GET A REPLACEMENT 5 DAYS AGO!!
I convinced myself that it was something I was doing wrong. But then when I had two friends come over yesterday that shoot/hunt with crossbows 6 months a year for 35 years (combined) to shoot it and THEY both tell me they would send it back on the first thing smoking, I seen the writing on the wall.
But this morning I seen (on this forum) where to check all screws on the bow. I did and all but one was loose. I thought MAYBE just MAYBE.
But my first two shots at 30 yards were two lossed arrows (with 4'x4'backboard). Let down!! I just wish I had not put in all the time, effort, worry, research, money and hope into this CB to just have to break it back down and send it back to the company.
And who knows how long this process will take?
Thanks GUYS for all the helpful info, advice and help you guys gave me we all tried. Now I'm sure it is a problem is in this CB.
And I am sorry for my unhappy ranting today. Hope it did not offend anyone I did not want to. Just upset and angry!
Today was not a good day to be (this) TREE RAT in the crossbow world!

[tryinhardarcher]

tree rat, on 29 January 2011 - 10:53 PM, said:

rgarey77 -- I/we have been cocking it by hand. I was going to buy ez cr rope cocker when I was at the bow shop but they had sold out of them, even the one that the tech uses on/for the demo bows.
   Moon ------ I will call Horton Monday and ask for a replacement and see how fast this can all be arranged.

I was so bummed out today.
I was wanting to hunt with it this season. We had bad weather for sighting it in the first few days after I got the TRT. Then we got several days of springtime weather (70 degrees today) and I have been working trying anything/everything to get this CB to shoot consistent.
YES I am hardheaded and stubborn... MY WIFE TRIED AND TRIED TO GET ME TO CALL HORTON TO GET A REPLACEMENT 5 DAYS AGO!!
I convinced myself that it was something I was doing wrong. But then when I had two friends come over yesterday that shoot/hunt with crossbows 6 months a year for 35 years (combined) to shoot it and THEY both tell me they would send it back on the first thing smoking, I seen the writing on the wall.
But this morning I seen (on this forum) where to check all screws on the bow. I did and all but one was loose. I thought MAYBE just MAYBE.
But my first two shots at 30 yards were two lossed arrows (with 4'x4'backboard). Let down!! I just wish I had not put in all the time, effort, worry, research, money and hope into this CB to just have to break it back down and send it back to the company.
And who knows how long this process will take?
Thanks GUYS for all the helpful info, advice and help you guys gave me we all tried. Now I'm sure it is a problem is in this CB.
And I am sorry for my unhappy ranting today. Hope it did not offend anyone I did not want to. Just upset and angry!
Today was not a good day to be (this) TREE RAT in the crossbow world!

Its late, and its been a long day. You obviously have had a long week, so I wanted to at least give you a quick response. I will follw up with you tomorow and see what I can do to help.
Matt

[Oldwarhorse]

Man, this is scary. I had problems with things coming loose as well. The stirrup bolt would loosen up every three shots. I put blue locktite on everything and no more problems. I know some guys are not big fans of locktite, but it always worked for me.

[tree rat]

Hello Oldwarhorse!
I have followed your post thru this forum for a couple of months now. Thanks for sharing your knowledge/experience.
As to my problem with the TRT I want to believe that this was a Q.C. issue.
The first day out I noticed the spacing between the bracket and limbs was there, but when cocked one side had alot more gap than the other. I went to a archery shop and the tech said that it was unusual for one to be that loose coming from the factory and he did tighten up the bad side. I did not think to check all screws and I guess he didn't think of it either. I should have cocked the CB there and looked to see if the gaps were the same on both sides, but I did not.
  When I got home I started shooting it and yes it seemed a little better but it still was not consistent. I thought that I could work it out with some time shooting it.
Then during the next day (bright sunny day) when cocked I noticed the other side was also loose but not nearly as bad as the side the tech tightened. So I broke the bow down to tighten that side and noticed that the hex heads on the bolts that holds the limbs on were both different. One head (I believe on the right side) had a flat head while the other side had a more indented head. The same wrench did fit both hex bolts but different types of heads still. I don't know maybe they are all like that but when I tried to tighten up the loose side I could tell the torq was great. I used a socket and wrench with a cheater and got it as tight as I dared to and still there is a paper thin gap that would not tighten out on one side. I was afraid to put any more torq in fear of stripping/breaking the bolt.
Started shooting it the next day with two friends and it was better but still erratic and inconsistent from left to right. They told me they both thought it was a crossbow issue and to call Horton.
I posted results on the forum and got advice from members to check the 4 screws above the trigger guard. Yes, they were all 4 loose so I tightened them up and then I got to checking and all screws were loose on the crossbow that had not already been tightened, except one.
I can understand the stirrup bolt working loose (I had been shooting) but ALL except the one bolt that holds the scope mounting bracket were loose. Even the 4 that holds the cams on the end of the limbs. One of them seem to be cross-threaded and I could not get anything on it, it still just spins.
Then after I tightened all/everything that I could find to tighten I went and shot it. Two shots resulted in two lossed arrows. Maybe with all screws/bolts tightened up it was that much off. I don't know. But after all of the work/effort I have lossed confidence in this CB.
I really fell for this lightweight powerhouse but it just will not group and consistency is out of the question.
Again, I feel that my experience is/was a Q.C. issue but I seem to have been wrong on everything else or at least slow to realize.
  Urban Legend has already contacted me (and its Saturday night) and said he would contact me tomorrow to fix this problem. I know Horton does take care of there folks but "DANG" I wanted to hunt with it this coming week.
I have a huge 10pt. that's hung up on a field in the back 40. I am afraid he will shed his antlers before I get a bow back, sighted in and am able to take him. I will not knowingly shoot a BIG BUCK after he sheds. Guess the bright side is he will be a healthy breeding monster buck (for Arkansas) next year passing his genetics on.
I will keep updating everyone to the ongoing progress between Horton and I in getting this problem corrected.

[vixenmaster]

If'en you have any screws that keep turning & not tighten up you have problems of stripped threads. Cocking by hand take white out or something simular & mark yer string on each side by the rail & as you cock try to keep yer marks paralel to the rail all the time. If'en it gets cocked off center its just like you have timing issues. Sounds like you will either have to return yer Bow to the dealer or Factory if'en you intend to keep it.

[tree rat]

vixenmaster, on 30 January 2011 - 07:23 AM, said:

If'en you have any screws that keep turning & not tighten up you have problems of stripped threads. Cocking by hand take white out or something simular & mark yer string on each side by the rail & as you cock try to keep yer marks paralel to the rail all the time. If'en it gets cocked off center its just like you have timing issues. Sounds like you will either have to return yer Bow to the dealer or Factory if'en you intend to keep it.

  vixemaster- the screw that is crossed threaded is on the end of the limbs that hold the cams in place. If you will look the screws themselves have one side slotted for a regular screwdriver slot and the other side has the allen type. I can not tighten it (only one) the other three were loose and I tightened them.
  Yes I did mark the string where it crossed the rail before I ever shot the bow. I have other crossbows and over the years I did learn that if the string was not cocked center it would show right to left inconsistency when shot.
Can not return to dealer I bought online out of state (Tenn.), looks like factory instead. I Just do not know how long this process will take and hunting season is passing fast (29 days) left here in Arkansas.
  Thanks for the good advice anyway. Out of here for now. On my way to church.

[tryinhardarcher]

tree rat, on 30 January 2011 - 11:03 AM, said:

vixemaster- the screw that is crossed threaded is on the end of the limbs that hold the cams in place. If you will look the screws themselves have one side slotted for a regular screwdriver slot and the other side has the allen type. I can not tighten it (only one) the other three were loose and I tightened them.
  Yes I did mark the string where it crossed the rail before I ever shot the bow. I have other crossbows and over the years I did learn that if the string was not cocked center it would show right to left inconsistency when shot.
Can not return to dealer I bought online out of state (Tenn.), looks like factory instead. I Just do not know how long this process will take and hunting season is passing fast (29 days) left here in Arkansas.
  Thanks for the good advice anyway. Out of here for now. On my way to church.

   PM Sent
Matt

[tree rat]

Tomorrow a.m. I will call Horton Customer Service and ask for a replacement.
  Have never had to deal with HCS before. Any helpful advice welcomed.  
  I have heard good things about HCS guess I will find out tomorrow.
  I will keep you posted on the latest news about this progress. T.R.

[tree rat]

UPDATE:
I called Horton today and I am very unhappy with Customer Service.
I talked with Janet K. at 1-800-291-3649 and she stated I would have to return the TRT to the company that I bought it from if I wanted a replacement. I tried to explain that when I recived the TRT packaged still wrapped and staples in the factory pkg. that there were Q.C. issues that I had been trying to work out myself with the help from members of this forum. She acted like she had never even heard of the  Crossbow Nation "Horton" Forum. When I told her that I really wanted to resolve this problem because I wanted to hunt with it and there was only 28 days, it fell on deaf ears again. MY opinion of HORTON CUSTOMER SERVICE is a JOKE!!! To the members of this forum, I DID CONTACT HORTON AND TRY AS BEST I COULD TO RESOLVE THESE ISSUES.

[tree rat]

I called the company that I bought the TRT from and they said exchange/replacement was not a problem. But they were out of the TRT and did not know when they would get more to ship.
The sales rep. from the company did tell me that there had been "others" TRT's returned for exchanged and suggested I replace it with another brand.
"I did not tell him that I had already called Horton Customer Service or any of the conversation I had with them." I ask about and he said that other customers did say that they had had some problems with the Horton Customer Service and seemed to be unhappy .
Guys I just want what I paid my hard earned money for no more no less and I thought Customer Service came with the deal!
I then ask the sales rep. what other brands he would suggest that OTHER customers bragged about the customer service and he responded with TENPOINT and PARKER.
I wanted to have this CB up and running for the last days of this season, but that's not going to happen.
Would have been so much easier if Horton would have just let the exchange take place, I bet they had a TRT in stock!
Janet K. at Horton told me that I did not buy it from HORTON and they would not replace the TRT. I decided not to argue with her. She was right I did not buy it direct from HORTON but I did buy it from a HORTON FACTORY AUTHORIZED DEALER, and they did buy it from HORTON (many,many bows etc. at a time) but Janet K. did register the bow for me herself I have the e-mail to prove it. But remember if you don't buy it direct form Horton they will not exchange it, so she said.
Really Folk's How Many People Buy Directly From HORTON?
I will NEVER buy another NEW HORTON PRODUCT again and I will Promise to give them the WORD OF MOUTH ADVERTISING THAT people really looks for and needs to hear before they buy and deal with this kind of problem with HORTON.
It is of my OPINION/Experience that Horton did not work with me "a customer" who bought from and talked up there products. And they my be producing good crossbows but do not take care of there customers like they did before they sold out. I believe it is now ALL ABOUT THE MONEY with Horton and the CUSTOMER COMES LAST.
  All over Q.C. issues that should not have ever been sold to a customer.

[Moon]

As you can see from TR's post, he's a very unhappy UL owner and has good reason to be. It's frustrating when things fall apart, especially on brand new products. I just read a post here where another brand just blew up (limbs flying off, etc.) caused by a broken string with onnly 75 shots. Crap happens.

I've been shooting an UL since early last spring, hunted with it just about every day during hunting season from October 2 through January 1 with only keeping screws tight and new servings on my string. Hell, I even "baked" it in the sun one day when it was 106 degrees here and it never failed. Now I read Tree Rat's new bow has been a didaster. what a bummer!

I thought I made it clear that the UL is a super light weight high performance crossbow that is loud and not really a smooth shooting crossbow. I've thoroughly enjoyed mine and will continue hunting with it quite a bit this fall, assuming my shoulders allow for cocking crosbows. At the same time, I'm very concerned that something is wrong with crossbows coming from any manufacturer or reputable dealer that is virtually falling apart when new. One thing that is a clue with TR's bow is that the box had been opened and stapled back. Who knows what that crossbow had been subjected to before TR got it. If TR doesn't get immediate help from Horton I don't blame him at all for not considering Horton in the future.

I've not heard of anything like this before and not with the V 175 at all.

BTW, I don't consider Gander M or some of the other major chain stores anything but part of the problems. In many cases, those folks behind the counter know less about the product than the customer.