23 replies to this topic

[manchops]

I posted to be able to shoot at a local range near my house that has a yearly membership. I agreed to the membership and sent my information and got the following. Since I am new to crossbow but not vertical bow, I am not sure if I should be calling "BS". What is any different from my 330 fps Hoyt Maxxis shooting easton and my Excalibur Vortex 330fps shooting easton?

Thanks for your interest in the club and joining. After seeing your post, I did some research and found out we do not allow crossbows on our range. This is not due to a prejudice gainst crossbows we simply are not equipped target wise to stop bolts. None of our practice 3d targets will stop a bolt and the bags and cotton bales we have out probably wont. There is also an insurance issue as we dont allow crossbows or broadheads on the range for that reason as well.  If you shoot compound or traditional please feel free to join. Thanks again for you interest..

[DeereGuy]

Could it possibly be because the crossbow arrow is heavier so the kinetic energy is much greater and will shot through or tear up the targets more?

[manchops]

DeereGuy, on 24 August 2011 - 08:31 PM, said:

Could it possibly be because the crossbow arrow is heavier so the kinetic energy is much greater and will shot through or tear up the targets more?

That is where I need opinions here. I am shooting at the same foam target I shot vertical and there is no difference. I have yet to shoot a 3D but would be different with a field point from my Crossbow and one from my Vertical.

I am really disappointed as the next closes place to shoot is like an hour away.

[vaguru]

FYI.  Crossbow arrows generally weigh more than vertical arrows, thus speed being the same, crossbow arrows have more kenetic energy(read momentum).  They are harder to stop, penetrate consistantly deeper than vertical arrows.  Thus, a minimal additional damage to foam targets.  I have experienced complete pass throughs on "rebuilt" foam targets that vertical arrows barely made it half way through.  On new targets, there is little difference that can be "seen" but measured.

That said, most clubs that don't allow crossbows come up with some lame excuse about insurance, safety (more monitors needed to "watch" crossbow shooters, etc.  It all boils down to a couple of things.  One, you are not doing what we do, so you're not allowed, or two, we are afraid you will out shoot us and take our trophy.

Mention to club officials, that your money is the same color as the vertical shooters and just maybe there would be more participation if crossbows were allowed.  Usually you are just landing on deaf ears, but in some clubs, someone will listen that has a bit of pull.  It is an uphill battle, but with more states offering hunters crossbow opportuniy, clubs will have to tolerate them, or possibly shut down due to lack of funds.

In the mean time, find a club that allows them, shoot ASA and IBO events, or start your own club.  Wih I had better advice, but that's the way it seems to be at this time.  More and more clubs are currently allowing crossbows due some open minded club officials.  Some clubs that sponsor ASA and IBO events here locally only allow them at qualifiers or sanctioned shoots.    For club shoots they are still tabu.

Good luck in your quest.

[manchops]

Thanks vagaru,

I am finding I am getting shut out of alot of the clubs in the DFW area because the second I say crossbow, they say "nope". And yes, I am willing to pay their fees.

I might just have to think about getting together with some other x/b shooters in my area and seeing if we can put something together. I knew the insurance line was a crock.

[vh64]

I wish they had a crossbow club around me.  Just a small low key operation mainly for crossbows. I would be willing to put time and money into it.

[buckmaster221]

It's lack of knowledge that makes these clubs say no to crossbows. We know what the limits and capabilities are but we have to educate those who don't.

And good luck with trying to start a club "mainly for crossbows". I would hope that vertical shooters would be allowed to shoot there as well. Otherwise, I have a feeling that the club would be taken to court for discrimination against vertical shooters. As stupid as that sounds, look at all the frivolous lawsuits that go through our courts. It's only a hypothetical situation that I propose, so don't beat me up about it.

[manchops]

I am an ex vertical shooter so I would never discriminate. If clubs are going to lose out on the funds to run their ranges, then I am going to take advantage of offering both to shooters.

[vh64]

Ok I would let vertical bows in my club too your right.

[RICKD]

vh64, on 25 August 2011 - 03:18 PM, said:

Ok I would let vertical bows in my club too your right.

Gander Mountain has a range, they sell both vertical bows and crossbows. I was told by the management that crossbows weren't allowed due to safety and insurance. Then he said, our targets can't stop a crossbow bolt. Safety? Please explain! This is just a very poor way to do business. Crossbow hunters need the same things that all hunters need, clothing, blinds, arrows, etc., etc. No wonder the brick and mortar stores are loosing business to internet stores.

If it were my company I would make sure that I had one or two lanes where my customers could test out a crossbow they were going to buy, and some place that they could practice after the purchase. I don't understand this prejudice, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Live & Learn

[buckmaster221]

As far as Gander Mountain is concerned, they are either lying to you, or they are not equipped at that particular store. I have shot a crossbow at a Gander Mountain store. As a matter of fact, I called them prior to going to that store for the sole purpose of shooting a crossbow that I was interested in. It very well could be just that store unless the policy has changed company wide. However, if that's the case, then they shouldn't sell crossbows if you can't try them first. Just my opinion.

[manchops]

If Gander is selling but not allowing test firing, that is just bad for business. Who is going to buy before shooting it? It is not a rifle, it is a bow. Cabelas had no issue with me stepping in their range and shooting several crossbows.

The safety and insurance reason is an absolute cop out. I found out from one range that they don't even have to cover insurance because it is a membership range where the members sign a waiver. Much like when you sign off to shoot on govt/corp land. You take your own risk.

I have the funds/means and am inquiring into others in my local hunting forums to see who would be willing to put in on membership for something minimal like $50 a year. That way I can weigh my costs and see how much interest there is. I know it is going to stir some drama  with other local ranges as I put the feeler out to crossbow and vertical bow shooters. A place for both to shoot and have events. But hey, you snooze.... you lose.

[BigBowMan]

I have 2 indoor target ranges that allow crossbows but we can not use broadheads just field points. That's a huge step here in Wisconsin!

[buckmaster221]

Like I said, it may just be that one particular store that doesn't allow it for whatever reason. I just know that I have shot a crossbow at a GM store.

As far as membership fees goes, 50.00 sounds ok. Although 25.00 sounds better. Are you providing the land on which the club would be formed? Do you have the targets or would that be part of the 50.00? Would membership be renewable at that price or would it be cheaper each subsequent year, i.e. 50.00 the first year and 25.00 thereafter? We only have one indoor shooting range in my town, and it's only 25 yards. If I want to shoot farther I have to go to a friends house or drive at least 20 minutes to one of my hunting locations. Personally I would be interested in a club like that.

[SEW]

What ever will stop "your vertical bow's arrow" will also stop "your x-bow's arrow" but as Vaguru stated, this isn't normally the case. My SZ380 is shooting a 488g arrow over 355'/sec. SFs and a few other x-bows shoot even harder. Their arrows are , indeed, much harder to stop than virtually any v-bow's arrows. In the 70s  there was this same stuff going on between the "traditional" bowyers and the compound shooters. Same going now with x-bow usage. Though I still hunt with my recurve(started bow hunting in 1957) , In the early 80s I transitioned to mainly compound so I could hunt a little further out and still hunt ethically. I bet This also applies to a lot of people on this board. Switched to x-bow because I just liked it. You are mainly dealing with a superiority mentality syndrome that seems to manifest in those with a need to prove something ( since many  of them need their egos stroked). Still the fact remains that arrows shot out of x-bows often are too much for many archery tgts. Yours is an exception.

[irish1169]

We have a shooting range here and they allow everything. They have a screen showing animal images that they dont allow xbows on, and you cant use broadheads, which i wouldnt any how. But the guys are good about what ever you bring. Just had one check my xbow out to make sure everything was all lined up, only charged me 10 bucks. Im new to xbows and never been into compounds, i dont really understand why people, some people are so against them. Just saw a commercial for a compound that shoots 366fps, thats about the same as my predator. Hope you figure it out.

[Highlander]

From the State of Maryland's legal site:

"The Maryland Department of Natural Resources and its shooting range    committee have come a long way in our efforts to expand shooting    opportunities in Maryland. Grants totaling $165,000 have been awarded to 44    private and public ranges throughout the state to improve public access! In    addition, two new public ranges have been built in Garrett and Carroll    counties. Our goal and commitment to you remains the same: to provide    reasonable access to as many ranges as possible so you have a safe,    convenient place to go to hone your skills and enjoy your sport."
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I wonder what the different State's Committees have to say about a crossbow range vs. a standard compound bow range & if the State is willing to help provide funds for this currently, especially if they require more stringent standards for xbow? Funds are always a big issue with small non-profit clubs.

Perhaps there is something here that cause some problems as well.



Currently, Maryland only has one private (club) Xbow range that I know of under construction and it is 1.5 hrs away from me.

With all the interest and the fact that deer populations are out of hand in Maryland, I hope there will be more Xbow ranges to come (including 3D) and the Committee standards are not much different.

Edited by HighlandHunter, 28 January 2012 - 02:51 PM.

[See4miles]

The real issue is that a cocked crossbow is just like a rifle.  It can be set down cocked and loaded, pointing in any direction.  A vertical bow is shot immediately (or the draw relaxed) rendering it inert. And when its drawn, the shooter is always pointed toward his target.

That is the real issue IMO.  It makes people nervous, and with good reason.

I am NOT siding with the clubs, just presenting a possible reason.

[BoDiddly]

I am not sure that the penetration argument makes any sense.  The best I remember, my crossbow bolts weigh pretty much the same as my compound bow arrows.
The difference I see in mine is that my compound shoots 285 and my crossbow shoots 335.  THis is about 40% more energy.  However, many of the new compound bows also shoot well over 300 FPS.
Seems to me that the safety of a compound comes in the fact that it is pointed toward the target when it is drawn.  The crossbow starts out pointed where ever when the arrow is loaded.
And then can be poionted most anywhere until it is aimed and released.  Of course, guns have the same safety issues and ranges deal with them all the time.

[XBOWED]

Pro Bass has on problem with xbows at their range.there targets work just fine.I hardly feel it's an insurance problem, Xbows do
shoot alot harder though... I think those other places are just blowing smoke you know where.They'll get with the program sooner
or later,when they see how much money their are losing...Guess we'll just have to be happy shooting at are own targets...