23 replies to this topic

[Yngwie Lesso]

I was wondering if anybody knew the perfect F.O.C% is when Shooting the Ghost 400..

A quote I read at gold tip

"With all that said, it is generally believed that an arrow with a high F.O.C. will fly well, but with premature loss of trajectory (nose-diving). While an arrow with a low F.O.C. will hold it's trajectory better, but it will fly erratically. So again, another trade-off for you to consider."

[Yngwie Lesso]

hmmm..guess i'm gonna have to figure this out..o'well, i'll compare the bone crusher,head hunter,easton 2219 razer and Carbone Express CX. all 22" and I'll get the foc for each of them with the 100 grain and 125 grain tips.

[Yngwie Lesso]

Ok...this took a bit, but I got the FOC info for just the 22" Head Hunter arroow from Barnett right now..kinda screwed up if you ask me.but here goes. I read that the best FOC for the crossbow is anything between 12 & 19%. I read that at http://www.crossbown...s-arrow-foc-r20

so.. the results I did this for was using the 22" Barnett Head Hunter arrow with 125 grain parctice tip, with stock nock, 100 grain practice tip, with stock nock, then got both with the lumenok. did this also with the G5, rage 125 grain, and rage 100 grain.. so if I did everything like it said, which I did, the FOC sucks with this arrow, or set-up. (EDIT) evidently this combination doesn't suck as bad as I said, looking at the other arrow results, this is the best so far


100 grain gold tip practice tip and stock nock = FOC 12.22%
100 grain gold tip practice tip with lumenok = FOC 9.67%

125 grain barnett practice tip and stock nock = FOC 14.32%
125 grain barnett practice tip with lumenok = FOC 11.49%

100 grain G5 T3 broadhead with stock nock = FOC 11.11%
100 grain G5 T3 broadhead with lumenok = FOC 8.73% (this is what I currently use)

Rage 2 blade 100 grain with stock nock = FOC 10.57%
Rage 2 blade 100 grain with lumenok = FOC 7.88%

Rage 2 blade 125 grain with stock nock = FOC 11.34%
Rage 2 blade 125 grain with lumenok = FOC 9.18%


Just so anybody else can make sure I'm doing this right, I'll show the number I got for the Rage 2 blade 100 grain, with stock nock and the lumenok..let me know if I did this wrong. but I based it on the link above.

stock nock & 100 grain Rage on the 22" Barnett Head Hunter arrow numbers

arrow length= 23.937 (23 15/16)
middle distance= 11.968 (23.937 / 2)
balance point= 14.500 (measurement from nock,to the balance point)
Difference= 2.532 ( 14.500 - 11.968)
FOC 10.57% (2.532 / 23.937)

lumenok & 100 grain Rage, on the 22" Barnett Head Hunter arrow numbers

arrow length= 24.187 (24 3/16)
middle distance= 12.083 (24.187 / 2)
balance point= 14.000 (measurement from nock to balance point)
difference= 1.907 (14.000 - 12.083)
FOC= 7.88% 1.907 / 24.187)

I sure hope somebody finds a flaw..cuz imho these numbers totally suck. I will be doing the same thing for the Bone Crusher, Easton Razer 2219, Carbon Express CX, and the Easton FMJ. all 22" arrow. and I am shooting the Ghost 400.

Edited by Yngwie Lesso, 13 January 2012 - 09:59 PM.

[Yngwie Lesso]

Well.. I'm at a loss. not sure what the correct FOC should be for crossbow arrows now. just did the FOC for the Easton FMJ (full metal jackets) and they aren't impressive neither. o'well f it. I'll just update the arrow info here for my own amusement lol..

Easton FMJ 22" stock nock

with 100 grain practice tip
FOC = 9.50%

with 100 grain 2 blade rage
FOC = 5.07%

with 100 grain G5 T3
FOC = 8.82%

with 125 grain practice tip
FOC = 10.91%

with 125 grain 2 blade rage
FOC = 8.76%


still a far cry away from the 12-18% they claim is ideal for crossbows..

or I can go by this explaination of FOC:

Common F.O.C. for hunting and field archery is 10% - 15%. While this may not be an exact science to selecting a correct broadhead for hunting, there is a very exacting science to this and I will explain. It is all about the yardage, energy retention and flat trajectory!

Making Good Use Of F.O.C. Calculations:
In the above example you will see the F.O.C is out of the normal range for hunting, the balance weight is more toward the center of the arrow.
Now is this a bad thing? If you have accuracy at the normal hunting range that is well within your capability the answer is no, why, because that arrow will fly a flatter trajectory than the same arrow with a higher F.O.C., so how do you increase the F.O.C., if the arrow does not have good accuracy, you simply use a heavier broadhead to increase it. Why? As you bring the nose of the arrow down you will increase the accuracy, why, more air is forced onto the fletching which is the steering on the arrow, but you will start loosing your flat trajectory, why, because you are adding weight to the arrow thus a loss of velocity and your increasing drag by passing more air onto the fletching which decreases velocity as well

Edited by Yngwie Lesso, 09 January 2012 - 10:20 PM.

[Hunting Sc]

hell yea man.. that's some good info.. thanx for posting that, as I'm in the market for a ghost.. I kept going back and forth between the jackal or a ghost and I said f'it and I'm just gonna save back for a ghost. After xmas and a move.. the ole lady will kill me if I just up and drop that kinda coin on 1 lol. Thanx again for posting that info.

Chris

[miheadhunter]

i have one i put a carbon express with 175 slick trick four blade the weight was 565 total 375 f.p .s man it hit and goes through everything and i mean everything faster crossbow i find that i slow it down little and i get more eng.

[Yngwie Lesso]

Ok...just adding the FOC for the 22" Easton Razer 2219 Aluminum arrow.

100 grain Gold tip practice tip,stock nock
FOC = 8.15%

125 grain Barnett practice tip, stock nock
FOC = 9.46%

100 grain 2-blade rage,stock nock
FOC = 6.25%

125 grain 2-blade Rage,stock nock
FOC = 7.21%

100 grain G3 T5,stock nock
FOC = 7.22%


seems likemiraclenna take a miricle for me to find an arrow combination I already have, that has a FOC of 12 or higher.. I might be amazed at the groups I get.

up next: 22" Barnett Game Crushers, with aluminum nocks

Edited by Yngwie Lesso, 13 January 2012 - 09:46 PM.

[Yngwie Lesso]

ugh... just keeps getting worse..what the flying truck

Ok, here are the FOC percentages for the 22" Barnett Game Crusher arrow, with the aluminum nocks

with a 100 grain 2-blade Rage
FOC = 4.45%  <--- ouch

with a 125 grain 2-blade rage
FOC = 5.15%

with a 100 grain T3 G5
FOC = 5.49%

with just a 100 grain Gold tip practice tip
FOC = 6.24%

with a 125 grain practice tip
FOC = 7.84%


can somebody post what the FOC of their arrows are if they can shoot tight groups (3" or less) at 30,40 yards? currently everything I am posting, shoots groups of about 5 inches. I am assuming its due to the FOC being so low, and the vains aren't able to do the job they were intended to do. I know 5" is petty, but I know it can be better, especially with the Ghost 400.

next will be the FOC for the 22" Carbon Express CX arrows

Edited by Yngwie Lesso, 13 January 2012 - 09:57 PM.

[swampy]

Dang you are thinking to much.

[Yngwie Lesso]

Yea.. I hear that from ALOT of people.. just trying to find that perfect combination. guess thats the fun of it all lol

[Yngwie Lesso]

Here are the FOC numbers for the 22" Carbon Express CX Crossbolt

with a 100 grain Gold Tip practice tip
FOC = 8.51%

with the 100 grain 2-blade Rage broadhead
FOC = 7.20%

with a 125 grain practice tip
FOC = 10.21%

with the 125 grain 2-blade Rage broadhead
FOC = 7.81%

with the 100 grain T3 G5 broadhead
FOC = 7.84%

think I got enough FOC numbers to test the difference between them all..may have to add some front weight on a couple so I can get results with a higher FOC then anything I have so far. I'll be doing a 3 arrow average 3 times for each, and measure the furthest distance between the arrows in each set of 3 arrows. then I'll post them so we can see which arrow FOC produces the best grouping. 13 degrees out right now..so f that! plus tomorrow is the last day of bow season..

[miheadhunter]

try it with a 150 grains and then do the math numbers get better heavy front liter back groups get titer more eng less speed .

[Yngwie Lesso]

miheadhunter, on 17 January 2012 - 01:12 AM, said:

try it with a 150 grains and then do the math numbers get better heavy front liter back groups get titer more eng less speed .

None of the broadheads I use come in 150 grains.. may get some 20 grain insert add-ons, and add 1 at a time to see what % I get.

[Aimo]

miheadhunter, on 17 January 2012 - 01:12 AM, said:

try it with a 150 grains and then do the math numbers get better heavy front liter back groups get titer more eng less speed .

Miheadhunter..i just sent you PM

[DocR]

Yngwie Lesso: Keep us posted "Oh Great One".  

I think I will just Duck Tape a hand grenade to the end of my arrow, with a 60 yard string attached to the pin. With a Ghost you can do anything!

[Yngwie Lesso]

the 22" Carbon Express CX Cross bolt with a 100 grain Gold Tip practice tip & a FOC of 8.51% shot groups of 1" at 30 yards. these were so tight, I actually ruined 2 arrows due to the evil "robin hood". So doing a few other test, the 2nd best was the Barnett headhunter with about a 2.5" group at 30 yards. I also like these 2 because they stick pretty dang close to the reticle lines for 20,30,40,50,60.. the heavier ones have alot more drop, and you can't rely on the reticles to be true at said distances (20,30,40,50,60).

[DocR]

What was the FOC on the Headhunter, and what tip did you use in testing on the Headhunter?  I have a few of the Headhunter arrows and I was wondering how they stack up with the other arrows on the market, in the price range.

[Yngwie Lesso]

100 grain gold tip practice tip with lumenok = FOC 9.67% like I said though, it wasn't that bad, and I was shooting sets of 3 arrows, 3 times for each. I would say that anything with a 8-9 FOC would be the best shooting arrow for the ghost 400. anything higher seems to get up into the 3" - 3.5" groups at 30 yards. thats not bad by any means, but I was trying to find the best, most consistant groupings..

I use the spyderwed target, so I couldn't test with the actual broadheads, without risking damaging the target.

[Yngwie Lesso]

Popular Arrow sizes (3 arrow average) all 22" arrows
ALL "weight" is arrow weight, does not include the tip weight.
I did this just so people have some idea as to what size nocks or inserts they may need to look for if they are thinking of changing out any of them (providing they are using
one of the below mentioned arrows). I know I've spend enough buying inserts and nocks, only to find out they don't fit, or are to small. hopefully this helps somebody. if
anybody else has any dinsions to other arrrow, or brands, please post them below.all measurments are +/- .003
Carbon Express CX arrow
Weight= 340 grains
I.D.= .282
O.D.= .341
Wall thickness= .030

Easton Aluminum Razer 2219
Weight=371 grains
I.D.=.299
O.D.=.343
Wall thickness=.021
Barnetts Easton Head hunter
Weight=330 grains
I.D.=.290
O.D.=.344
Wall Thickness=.025
Barnetts Game Crusher
Weight=372 grains
I.D.=.269
O.D.=.346
Wall Thickness=.037
Eastons FMJ (full metal jacket)
Weight=388 grains
I.D.=.284
O.D.=.343
Wall Thickness=.030

The Gold Tip Laser IV aluminum Half-Moon Nock O.D. is .270 and the weight is 24 grains. The only arrow above it fit for me was the BarnettGame Crusher.

[swampy]

Man I think it would be easier to just shoot and  play around  with it a bit.