21 replies to this topic

[crappie-tom]

I don't know how many of you found this post. I own the same product that this happened on and, really think in the short time I have owned it, that it is a great xbow.   I just wanted to give you guys a heads up for your own safety.  We don't have all the steps that took place to cause this accident yet but, I hope all the facts will be brought out on here.   Remember, the company has just about told us that we are the experiment  for any changes to the future models.
Be careful guys

c-t

• January 15th, 2012 09:45 AM

  #26ewequip Registered User

  Join DateDec 2005LocationmarylandPosts1,776

  Originally Posted by brad k Buddy's just dry fired.....bum trigger mech.....he's lost a few fingers and he's got a few hanging busted his whole hand up...nitemare.....Between the cease fire loading safety, killswitch, and autoswitch safety, you'd think this type of thing should never happen.
  Not to throw stones...but I don't care how many safety devices a crossbow has, you shouldn't have body parts between the
  string and the bow.
  
  Were you there when it happened?
  
  P.S. and now that I think about it killswitch is an interesting name for a trigger because of the connotations of safety.
  Anyone know why they chose that name?

  Regards,
  
  Pete

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• Today 09:42 PM

  #27

  brad k Registered User

  Join DateJan 2009Posts268

  It happened to him 25 feet up his tree....had to make a blood trail all the way down ....and a ways out to his truck.....I will get you pics when he texes them to me moon"....his hand was absolutely devestated by the stykzone misfire......bum trigger"....he is one tuff ass dude to.....this is a 100 percent true story.....why would I ever concoct a bs story about my hunting buddy of 20 years getting his fingers ripped off with the birthday present I suggested his wife buy him.....he always shot vertical...I had her surprise him with the new stykzone"......I feel like I'm partly to blame,,

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[Ventilator]

Was this the 350 or 380? I wish him the best in his recovery.

[xbowguy]

This is not going to be good.  Say what you want but I was present with UL and we had a very similar issue with the trigger during a review.  Crossbow ended up in pieces when I took the safety off.  I took the safety OFF!  I was not even near the trigger.  Pieces went every damn where.  What I saw really shocked me.  It’s been pushed too and beyond the limits. TYPICAL
What the hell do I know?  Some guy with a higher post count than me said there great so they must be.

Thank God Jeff nor I got hurt!  

This is what is going to happen when you run out and buy NEW unproven and properly tested crossbows right off the press especially when you make "trigger weight" an advertised feature.  RELIABILITY and SAFETY need to be your buying priority.  Guess if you can’t make it faster, if you think you must, then make the trigger lighter!

You can design and build the product and then start a company around that or guess you can start a company, sell a bunch and hope you can make something that stays together before you have to ship.  The later is the trend and we continue to see the results.

Cant wait to learn more of the details.

[Zrt1200]

What the problem here is having the public do its R&D!! I have seen some snowmobile manufactures do the same thing and have seen some bad results from it!! (like the steering system failing at 80 MPH) These company's need to be held responsible for there actions as it is just not right!! I pray your buddy can get full use of his hand again with no lasting problems. Unfortunately you guys had a problem with your trigger/safety. I know that my anti dry fire and safeties works in both of my bows as I test them when I first get them to be sure as I let my boy shoot crossbows with me and I would just feel terrible if some thing like that happened to my boy. After thinking about this I will test them again in the spring when I dig them back out and recheck the anti dry fire and safeties. If they are going to fail I would prefer in a controlled environment than in the field. Thanks for the post Crappie-tom

[elkstalkr]

So I assume the SZ's have a anti-dry fire device, but supposedly this one failed?  Just asking cuz I don't know a lot about the SZ's.

[randyxx75]

yes elk they have adf, and auto - safety, and a fork to place in the safety housing that will render it impossible to fire untill removed, we don't know if it failed, did it have an arrow in it? , was the safety off and get triggered somehow? if it was user error I doubt it would be admitted, so for me ,untill we find out more on this incident with facts , I'd be  hesitant to form an opinion...

[Moon]

I've not  posted on this yet because we don't know what happened but I will say this: After having shot and hunted with a 350 and 380 for months with well over 1000 combined shots on them, all of which were fired using common sense, the auto safety, anti dry fire system and most importantly, the lock out feature which totally ensures that the string claws cannot open and the safety cannot be pushed forward until the lock out fork is removed. After having closely examined the trigger assembly design, if that lockout fork was in place there is no possible way the bow could fire except if the 4 metal claws snapped off, which I find very unlikely, but if they did break, why in the world does anyone ever have their fingers in the path of a cocked crossbow's string?????????? I'm 69 years old and somewhat forgetful but even I never place my hands, fingers or any other body parts in the path of that crossbow string. Even loading an arrow, I grasp the arrow just behind the point and carefully slide it into place. I saw a friend last year actually run his hand up from the bottom of the cocked crossbow's string to make sure his arrow was seated correctly. Yep, I called him an idiot to his face. He was not thinking, plain and simple.

The first thing that pops out for me is that Brad said the guy is new to crossbows and he just got it for Chritmas. I wonder how  much training and instruction he got before he ever went into the woods with  the crossbow?... and if he did, again, why was his hand in the path  of the bowstring?  Bowtech  has sold tons  of  these crossbows since January 2011 and of course, anything mechanical can go wrong BUT I'm not buying the "bum trigger bit" without accurate and truthful details.

I  know there was one guy (acouple years ago)that cut the end off his finger with a different crossbow. He  claimed trhe bow delayed in firing so he reached up to remove the  arrow and it fired. He actually  later made a video to "prove" his point. It was very cold when he made the video because there was ice on his  truck's tailgate. He pulled the trigger and the bow sat there for like one minute before it fired. He proved his point right????? NO! I proved to myself that I could pack that trigger housing  with  grease and in really cold weather it would sit there for a bit before it would fire. I'd bet money that's what he did to prove his point. BTW, I then soaked the trigger parts in solvent to remove all the grease, re-assembled the unit and nobody would ever know I had done that if I had not told them.

I feel sorry for folks that get injured with crossbows, even those that were the root  of the cause. If I happened to be a dealer, I'd spend sufficient time to go through  all the safety aspects of a crossbow with them and they would be required sign a statement before leaving the store that stated they were given the training and understood it. Isn't the possibility of losing body parts worth that effort? I'm convinced it is.

Edited by Moon, 18 January 2012 - 02:37 PM.

[vixenmaster]

X2, on yer post. I don't put nutten of my body parts in the way of the string once cocked, as it will mangle you.

[crappie-tom]

SCORPYDIZED, on 18 January 2012 - 12:53 AM, said:

Was this the 350 or 380? I wish him the best in his recovery.

I can't say for certain but, it was under a 350 post on AT.

[crappie-tom]

xbowguy, on 18 January 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

This is not going to be good.  Say what you want but I was present with UL and we had a very similar issue with the trigger during a review.  Crossbow ended up in pieces when I took the safety off.  I took the safety OFF!  I was not even near the trigger.  Pieces went every damn where.  What I saw really shocked me.  It’s been pushed too and beyond the limits. TYPICAL
What the hell do I know?  Some guy with a higher post count than me said there great so they must be.

Thank God Jeff nor I got hurt!  

This is what is going to happen when you run out and buy NEW unproven and properly tested crossbows right off the press especially when you make "trigger weight" an advertised feature.  RELIABILITY and SAFETY need to be your buying priority.  Guess if you can’t make it faster, if you think you must, then make the trigger lighter!

You can design and build the product and then start a company around that or guess you can start a company, sell a bunch and hope you can make something that stays together before you have to ship.  The later is the trend and we continue to see the results.

Cant wait to learn more of the details.

Reading your comments xbowguy. Made me think about a post from awhile back that stuck with me from a comment from UL.
Here it is in the name of safety.  I believe we should be seeing a forum dedicated to crossbow safety pretty soon. Right UL?   This was the second injury in as many days that I read.
c-t
crappie-tom, on 11 November 2011 - 10:13 AM, said:

I've posted this before. I'm still looking for ONE great crossbow company to start operating it's business like VEXILAR flashers/cameras. Don't believe me. Sign up for their newsletter or visit their site, or on Facebook to see what consumer delight is! ALL current xbow companies get a F in this area. I might add I think their efforts are a joke. I'm waiting to see one unified National effort to grow the sport.
Something like what I saw on the ATA's site regarding the 'Explore Bowhunting Program" driven down to all states with a combined effort between vertical and xbow working together to grow the sport. While your at the ATA show check out all the new toy's but, think about having programs in your area where the youth can "Explore Bowhunting" on a regular basis. Get that done on a National basis and you will have all the new toys you can imagine.

UL- While I might have your attention. How about a place for a education forum on the site? I think you have everything else covered but, the most important topic for growing your members. Imagine the interest and, events you can help create!

My 2 cents
c-t



Already in the works. I agree and almost feel the responsibility that this site should educate it's members. I plan on changing some this up for next year and this is high priority. Not going to touch a thing on the site though until after the first of the year. One thing I saw brought up here on this thread already is a "light trigger". Here is where the education starts. Crossbows are not firearms. That have much more weight to hold back than just a spring that drives a firing pin. Too light of trigger is asking for danger. I would rather have a crisp trigger with no travel or creep. Light triggers are nice when you are shooting off your bench in your backyard in the summer. Put on gloves, have it be below freezing, and add the adrenaline rush of a monster buck. Light triggers are asking for problems.
"I think I'm thinking too hard"

I'll also have another real issue to comment on that I see as a problem that is going to happen.  c-t

Edited by crappie-tom, 18 January 2012 - 04:35 PM.

[Urban Legend]

I am working on things now.  I was hoping to have the new site complete, but it's not done yet.  Maybe a few more weeks. And yes, I will definitely have a section for crossbow education/safety.

[Sherman7057]

Thx for the heads up c-t

[Moon]

I see guys walking out of Wal-Mart with  their first crossbow ($399) and it scares the hell out  of me.  I don't know what the answer is for that except for manufacturers doing the best they  can to put overkill WARNINGS on every page of their instruction manuals.  I have a friend that cut the end off his finger with a Buck Buster and wanted me to go with him to his attourney, which I refused to do. How could anyone get his finger up above the rail on that crossbow?? Oh, I know......he was drinking at the time.

[LoveLabs]

Thank you for the post.  It is easy to get careless around one of these bows and THAT is dangerous.  

I hope the guy recovers fully.  Let us know the status of the search for facts about the cause and also his recovery progress from time to time, please?

And UL, thank you for starting to set up a "safety section".

Edited by LoveLabs, 19 January 2012 - 11:01 AM.

[crappie-tom]

Moon, on 19 January 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

I see guys walking out of Wal-Mart with  their first crossbow ($399) and it scares the hell out  of me.  I don't know what the answer is for that except for manufacturers doing the best they  can to put overkill WARNINGS on every page of their instruction manuals.  I have a friend that cut the end off his finger with a Buck Buster and wanted me to go with him to his attourney, which I refused to do. How could anyone get his finger up above the rail on that crossbow?? Oh, I know......he was drinking at the time.

Hi Moon
Since you are retired, have a long history with many different types of xbows and, I've seen you do a Scorpyd video. Why don't you do a safety video when the new forum is up on CN if that's not already what UL has planned.  I have only been at this for about 2 years and, I've seen brand new equipment with dented cams, sharp aluminum left behind from milling all around the cable slide area, cable slides with burrs, crooked scope rail mounts, arrow retainers that don't even touch the arrow, screws that hold cables to limbs not tight, cut strings.  ect, ect, ect.    I think teaching folks what to look for initially and, areas to constantly check might save some injuries.  I think you can also come up with some interesting ways to teach people to keep their body parts out of the danger zone at all times.
c-t

[Moon]

CT, I have not made a Scorpyd video or a video on anything for that matter but I agree that more attention and effort needs to be placed on crossbow safety and proper handling. I'm surprised that we don't see and hear of more injuries. I think the tendency for vertical bow shooters is to handle crossbows as haphazardly as they have with verticals.....bad mistake!!!! I think we will see an increase in crossbow safety related articles on forums and crossbow magazines. It's time.

[crappie-tom]

Moon, on 19 January 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

CT, I have not made a Scorpyd video or a video on anything for that matter but I agree that more attention and effort needs to be placed on crossbow safety and proper handling. I'm surprised that we don't see and hear of more injuries. I think the tendency for vertical bow shooters is to handle crossbows as haphazardly as they have with verticals.....bad mistake!!!! I think we will see an increase in crossbow safety related articles on forums and crossbow magazines. It's time.

Sorry for that Moon.  I just went back to 2010 posts. It was Boo from Booscustom strings that made the short video I was thinking of.   I still think you might be the right candidate to do a video though. You're very photogenic and, enjoy showing off your xbows.  You have been at the ATA for the last 2 years that I know of and, have shown photos from you're shop of many different models that you have owned.
c-t

[Moon]

CT, I still think you may be referring to someone else (photogenic ) I'm a 69 year old fart:-)

I do have a Scorpyd Ventilator on order to play with and I'll certainly let folks know what I think of the bow but it will only be through these forums with a possible photo  or two.

Some of the younger guys from the crossbow manufacturers should  tackle the videos on crossbow safety and injury prevention. After all, it's in their  best interest.

As to photos, there are different levels of information retention ( what we read, what we hear and what we see in photos) I don't remember which leads to the most retention but most folks like photos with explanations, especially those that are newbees.

[the dog]

I know the guy that this happened too. not a newbie, lifetime of experience, up in his treestand and placed an arrow on the deck, it went off by itself.  not a guy with his first bow walking out of walmart moon.

I just talked to him last night and found out what type of bow he was shooting which led me to this section of the forum to find out if anyone else has had a trigger malfunction like his did.

[Moon]

but very new to crossbow handling and the unique dangers associated with them from what I read. I'm sorry but having one's hands in the path of a cocked crossbow string at ANY time is nuts. Grabbing the arrow half way up the shaft and pushing it into the string claw is something you just don't do with any crossbow. 5 years ago I had a $2,000 crossbow fire when I pushed the safety off. It would have been a disaster if I had happened to have the crossbow aimed down towards my foot or at anything I did not want to shoot. I make a point of turning a crossbow in the direction I want to shoot before pushing the safety off and always hold the arrow to be loaded by the shaft with just 2 fingers just behind the point out of the way of the bowstring. I'm sorry your friend was injured.