21 replies to this topic

[Stalker]

I bought a box of 6 carbon arrows with vanes and inserts factory installed (easton power bolts).2 out of the six shoot high.One shot high from the first.The other one was grouping with the others but then after five or so shots started shooting high as well.The other four are grouping great after twenty plus shots.I have checked the vanes,nocks and inserts and see no difference and they are the same weight.So my guess is the spine strength.I have flexed them both and hear no cracking and see none.These are the first carbon arrows I have used and was wondering if this is fairly common or am I barking up the wrong tree?Im glad I tested all six before hunting because they are hitting about four inches high and are not grouping side to side well either but not as bad as they are high.

[Quickdraw1]

Check your Crossbow

[Stalker]

Quickdraw1, on 23 January 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

Check your Crossbow

The crossbow is fine been shooting great groups with the other 4 arrows for two months.

[Zrt1200]

Stalker, on 23 January 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

I bought a box of 6 carbon arrows with vanes and inserts factory installed (easton power bolts).2 out of the six shoot high.One shot high from the first.The other one was grouping with the others but then after five or so shots started shooting high as well.The other four are grouping great after twenty plus shots.I have checked the vanes,nocks and inserts and see no difference and they are the same weight.So my guess is the spine strength.I have flexed them both and hear no cracking and see none.These are the first carbon arrows I have used and was wondering if this is fairly common or am I barking up the wrong tree?Im glad I tested all six before hunting because they are hitting about four inches high and are not grouping side to side well either but not as bad as they are high.

Four out of six is typical for most carbon shafts. Try rotating the nock to a different vane and re-shoot it. If that does not work rotate to the other vane and re-shoot it as well. If you can get them to group doing it this way take a permanent marker and mark the vane that needs to go down. If not you can try to refletch them starting in between the two current fletchings / 60 degrees from where you are now and start over. Some times you just can not get the arrow to shoot where you want no matter what. Hope this helps.

[FuzzyFultz]

Stalker, on 23 January 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

I bought a box of 6 carbon arrows with vanes and inserts factory installed (easton power bolts).2 out of the six shoot high.One shot high from the first.The other one was grouping with the others but then after five or so shots started shooting high as well.The other four are grouping great after twenty plus shots.I have checked the vanes,nocks and inserts and see no difference and they are the same weight.So my guess is the spine strength.I have flexed them both and hear no cracking and see none.These are the first carbon arrows I have used and was wondering if this is fairly common or am I barking up the wrong tree?Im glad I tested all six before hunting because they are hitting about four inches high and are not grouping side to side well either but not as bad as they are high.

Same problem here with the Easton Power Bolts(3 out of 6). I then bought six Cabela's Stalker X Bolts and they all shot perfect. You may want to check them out right now, $29.00 for six 20" inch arrows. They look the same as the Easton, but I believe they are made by Beman for Cabela's.

Edited by FuzzyFultz, 23 January 2012 - 06:58 PM.

[xbowguy]

I have been doing a lot of testing lately with carbon arrows and can tell you that while they are straight each and every shaft varies in the six pack.  Individually each arrow will shoot same hole but as a group they are not that impressive.

As mentioned if you start to rotate the arrow to a different vane down you will notice that again the arrow will shoot same hole but its point of impact may change.  I can take anyone of the arrows and just by rotating it go from one hole to a group size of almost an inch on average.  Couple that with 5 others and having no idea of each arrow’s stiff spot and you can make a good shooting crossbow look pretty bad.

All carbon arrows have a seam of sorts.  Somewhere along each shaft is a stiffer or higher spined area which most of us have no idea how to find seeing the spine is checked before it is cut down to crossbow length.  Couple this with the fact just about all the arrows are spined in a range of plus or minus 20 or even more with some of the cheaper carbon arrows and you can see why.  A 350 spine crossbow arrow may run a tolerance of 20 meaning that the shafts can range between 330 and 370.  So we have a stiff area that is not matched or identified and a pretty large range of deflection.  A lot of the vertical target guys "super tune" their arrows to match these conditions and eliminate the variables.  Again, pretty hard to do with crossbow arrows especially after the fact of cutting and fletching.

Rest assured that good to great carbon crossbow arrows are a must for most crossbow hunters because of their durability and ease of maintenance.  Those arrows that don’t seem to group for you should be set aside for just random stump shooting.  I know it sucks spending all that money for six bullets to find that they are not the same like we all thought.

I’m sure there is a better way to match them but it’s going to come at a cost and today it seems to be about being cheaper and not better.  I assume that you still are "minuet of deer" related to hunting at typical distances?

[FuzzyFultz]

Rest assured that good to great carbon crossbow arrows are a must for most crossbow hunters because of their durability and ease of maintenance.  Those arrows that don’t seem to group for you should be set aside for just random stump shooting.  I know it sucks spending all that money for six bullets to find that they are not the same like we all thought.

I’m sure there is a better way to match them but it’s going to come at a cost and today it seems to be about being cheaper and not better.  I assume that you still are "minuet of deer" related to hunting at typical distances?
[/quote]

[size="5"]Good analysis xbowguy, I agree. To me, I would think maybe that you get what you pay for, sort of speak. But I really do not know that because I have not bought any of the higher priced arrows yet. I would like to have six of the Parker Red Hot arrows. But I am not sure that the difference would be worth the moneys spent, around $80.00 for six of the weight forward Red Hot shafts made by Carbon Express.[/size]

Edited by FuzzyFultz, 24 January 2012 - 08:36 AM.

[Stalker]

xbowguy, on 24 January 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

I have been doing a lot of testing lately with carbon arrows and can tell you that while they are straight each and every shaft varies in the six pack.  Individually each arrow will shoot same hole but as a group they are not that impressive.

As mentioned if you start to rotate the arrow to a different vane down you will notice that again the arrow will shoot same hole but its point of impact may change.  I can take anyone of the arrows and just by rotating it go from one hole to a group size of almost an inch on average.  Couple that with 5 others and having no idea of each arrow’s stiff spot and you can make a good shooting crossbow look pretty bad.

All carbon arrows have a seam of sorts.  Somewhere along each shaft is a stiffer or higher spined area which most of us have no idea how to find seeing the spine is checked before it is cut down to crossbow length.  Couple this with the fact just about all the arrows are spined in a range of plus or minus 20 or even more with some of the cheaper carbon arrows and you can see why.  A 350 spine crossbow arrow may run a tolerance of 20 meaning that the shafts can range between 330 and 370.  So we have a stiff area that is not matched or identified and a pretty large range of deflection.  A lot of the vertical target guys "super tune" their arrows to match these conditions and eliminate the variables.  Again, pretty hard to do with crossbow arrows especially after the fact of cutting and fletching.

Rest assured that good to great carbon crossbow arrows are a must for most crossbow hunters because of their durability and ease of maintenance.  Those arrows that don’t seem to group for you should be set aside for just random stump shooting.  I know it sucks spending all that money for six bullets to find that they are not the same like we all thought.

I’m sure there is a better way to match them but it’s going to come at a cost and today it seems to be about being cheaper and not better.  I assume that you still are "minuet of deer" related to hunting at typical distances?

Thanks for the info.I figured it had something to do with the stiffness of the shafts.I did not consider these arrows cheap.I know you get what you pay for.They were among the highest in price where I bought them at a store not online.I believe they were $45 which I did think was a good deal considering they already had vanes and inserts and were the weight I was looking for.4 out of the 6 shoot very well.I would not shoot at the same spot on the target with them.I'm afraid I do not understand your question.Probably my ignorance.I looked up minuet in the dictionary and it says (a slow stately dance;the music for it,and I still dont understand the question.I am hunting at typical distances about 35 maybe 40 yards if conditions were just right is my max.

[xbowguy]

TYPE O on my part!  If I could spell and my fingers were not so damn fat at times things would work out a lot better.  I meant MINUTE as in Minute of Angle, MOA

Minute of deer meaning hunting accuracy.

I was not saying you didn’t spend allot of money or that you may have got better arrows if you spent more.  Just pointing out how the carbon game goes.  Some carbon arrows are made with cheaper materials and by cheaper means.  Not all carbon arrows are equal yet I believe that most perceive them that way.  

Hard to believe that we are in the $100 a dozen, or even more, arrow game. I’m sure the Indians would laugh at us but it is what it is.

[snowman485]

Try switching from longbows and cedar arrows to crossbow with carbon arrows,I'm not laughing.

[TRG3]

snowman485, on 24 January 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

Try switching from longbows and cedar arrows to crossbow with carbon arrows,I'm not laughing.

I made this exact switch a couple of years ago and find that now I take my crossbow hunting a lot more than my longbow. I was immediately impressed with the consistant accuracy of my-then Parker Buckbuster 150 and my-now Parker Tornado. By rotating the nocks or refletching when necessary on my crossbow arrows, it was relatively easy to keep them in a 2" cirle at 40 yards off a rest. Concerning my longbow, it is finding more usage during the early part of deer season when shots are more likely to be 20 yards or less. I have a feeling that as my retirement continues, my crossbow will be taking even more trips to the deer woods than my longbow. It's good to have options.

[Stalker]

xbowguy, on 24 January 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

TYPE O on my part!  If I could spell and my fingers were not so damn fat at times things would work out a lot better.  I meant MINUTE as in Minute of Angle, MOA

Minute of deer meaning hunting accuracy.

I was not saying you didn’t spend allot of money or that you may have got better arrows if you spent more.  Just pointing out how the carbon game goes.  Some carbon arrows are made with cheaper materials and by cheaper means.  Not all carbon arrows are equal yet I believe that most perceive them that way.  

Hard to believe that we are in the $100 a dozen, or even more, arrow game. I’m sure the Indians would laugh at us but it is what it is.

I thought it might be a type-o but wasn't sure.Ive heard good things about GT 2s.Do you have any experience with them?I've read that a lot of crossbow company's have there arrows made by different company's and put there name on them so its kind of confusing as to what is what.A Horton arrow is not a Horton if its made by Easton or Carbon Express at least not in my book.Out of the ones you have tested which ones seam to match up the best? I value your opinion.As for the price $100 a dozen isn't bad if they all shoot the same.You can kill a lot of deer with 12 arrows.I bet the Indians would really laugh at the price of a dozen carbon spears especially with 600grn.broadheads.Maybe $2400 a dozen that would be a steal LOL.

[FuzzyFultz]

xbowguy, on 24 January 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

TYPE O on my part!  If I could spell and my fingers were not so damn fat at times things would work out a lot better.  I meant MINUTE as in Minute of Angle, MOA

Minute of deer meaning hunting accuracy.

I was not saying you didn’t spend allot of money or that you may have got better arrows if you spent more.  Just pointing out how the carbon game goes.  Some carbon arrows are made with cheaper materials and by cheaper means.  Not all carbon arrows are equal yet I believe that most perceive them that way.  

Hard to believe that we are in the $100 a dozen, or even more, arrow game. I’m sure the Indians would laugh at us but it is what it is.

Glad you cleared that up about the "minuet of angel" thingy. I too have to edit several times to get it right and understandable. Have you tried any of the higher priced arrows xbowguy ? Just wondering if they are really worth it. I have always bought the Carbon Express because of the cheaper price. Lately I have compared some Easton Power bolts and compound vert bow Easton Epics. I spinned them on a new Apple Archery spin tester. So far the Carbon Express are hands down the best for the money. Two Easton Epics of four are culled for practice. None of the Carbon Express where culled, but I fixed two of them. I posted the results in another discussion I started about the Apple Archery Tuner. I never owned one of these either. Man what I have missed. So much better than the spin in your hands test.

Yes, who would have thought that people would pay so much for arrows. Aluminum is not that cheap either.

[Deerhunter34]

I haven't had too much experience with the cheaper stuff, but I can say that I have 18 Parker Red Hots and they all shoot to the same point.  The only damage I have done is strip half a vane on a pass thru of a ground hog.  I started with them on my Parker and now I am shooting them also on my CE Covert.  I have not tried the cheaper ones and after reading this thread I am glad I have not. And by the way I am not shooting at the same place twice or I would be replacing them way too often.

[Stalker]

Deerhunter34, on 24 January 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

I haven't had too much experience with the cheaper stuff, but I can say that I have 18 Parker Red Hots and they all shoot to the same point.  The only damage I have done is strip half a vane on a pass thru of a ground hog.  I started with them on my Parker and now I am shooting them also on my CE Covert.  I have not tried the cheaper ones and after reading this thread I am glad I have not. And by the way I am not shooting at the same place twice or I would be replacing them way too often.

why are they called parker red hots if they are made by carbon express?Does carbon express make the same arrow under a different name at a lesser price?  You have 18 red hots that shoot the same. How many did you buy to get 18 that shoot the same 18?

[xbowguy]

Currently I am doing some testing with a soon to be named arrow company.  Nice thing is that I am dealing with the manufacture and they are listening to what I think and my test results.  You would be surprised how much better or matched a set of arrows can be for just a few dollars more.

I do understand about the private labeling thing but sometimes it’s a bit confusing.  So I am a crossbow company and I get my crossbow arrows from EASTON.  Why would I not tell the world seeing they are made by one of the best arrow makers of all times?  Why would you buy an xbowguy arrow for your crossbow?  What do I know about making arrows especially if I am not making them?  The thought of course is that if you buy a Parker then you will buy Parker arrows.  Guess I don’t play that game.  I try to buy the best I can at any given product.  My long range tactical rifle is a Surgeon RSR with a Rock barrel and an S&B scope.  I feed it Lapua brass and bullets.  I don’t feed it Surgeon ammo.  They don’t even make ammo.  Federal does not make rifles but they make great ammo.  Remington makes good guns but I am not a fan of their ammo.  All I am saying is do what your good at and don’t try to be what you’re not.

I do believe in some cases though that private labeling does make some sense.  Example would be scopes.  I know how to go to a scope maker and spec a crossbow scope.  I don’t think that makers like Nikon or Leupold have a clue how to make a crossbow specific scope yet.  In this case they are just trying to sale something because they are good at rifle optics and not necessarily crossbow scopes.  The private labeling thing is hit or miss in my opinion.

I will keep you guys posted on the arrows.

[Highlander]

"Couple this with the fact just about all the arrows are spined in a range of plus or minus 20 or even more with some of the cheaper carbon arrows and you can see why."

Xbowguy,

Do you have knowledge that the manufacturers spine specs given, indeed are all with-in the provided specs? I am unaware of any simple test for spine?  After all we are at the mercy of the manufacturers which all claim nothing but the best.  I have bought shafts from reputable companies and found that in the past I would buy the shaft individually and roll test the shafts before purchase (for compound use). I was surprised how many wouldn't pass even a simple roll test. It did cost more to do it this way and I was buying from a small dealer. I assume the defective shafts went to the newbies, unaware of the problem. If the arrows come pre-fletched, you really can't do a simple roll test in a store that I am aware of.  

Edited by HighlandHunter, 25 January 2012 - 10:44 AM.

[retired05]

Have any of you used the GT 2 Pro shafts?  If so what were the results.

[Deerhunter34]

Stalker, on 25 January 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

why are they called parker red hots if they are made by carbon express?Does carbon express make the same arrow under a different name at a lesser price?  You have 18 red hots that shoot the same. How many did you buy to get 18 that shoot the same 18?

I can only assume that Parker has a contract with CE for the arrows at their specs.  I believe they are similar in design to the Maxima Hunter but that is only my speculation.  I purchased 18 and all 18 are shooting to the same poi.  I only know that this batch is working well for me out of two different crossbows so when I need more I will stick with what is working for me.  It really doesn't matter to me what name is on it as long as it works.

[Stalker]

I agree.I will probably get some.Did you fletch and install inserts or did they come already installed. If they were factory installed do you know what they weigh before heads.Thanks for the info and good luck.