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Crossbow Hunting License Question


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#1 Tim50

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 09:33 AM

Since the WBH has lobbied & bought this recent bill to the Governors desk I do have a question. The WBH lawyers & attorneys wrote the bill to keep the crossbow out of their archery season and align the crossbow with firearms season. My question is will the huters of Wisconsin be required to buy an archery license to hunt with their crossbow? The intent of the WBH was to keep crossbows out of archery season. Which this bill does! Is the crossbow thought of as "archery equipment" in Wisconsin? What would be the need to purchase an archery license if the crossbow is not concidered archery equipment? Or if it is thought of as "archery equipment" and you cannot use it in ARCHERY season yet you are still required to purchase an ARCHERY license isn't that something the DNR should address? Inquiring minds want to know!!

#2 xranger

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 01:19 PM

Good question. The use of crossbows within an archery season was created to allow the elderly and disabled to use a crossbow in an archery season much like allowing the disabled to park in special locations due to their disadvantage. The elderly and disabled were granted the ability to use a crossbow in an archery season as a way to allow them to participate without regard to the season name. WI law also recently changed to allow crossbows into the gun season under a gun deer tag and into the bear and turkey seasons (even though those are firearms seasons) the weapon is not the issue but rather the ability to give the elderly and disabled the advantage they need to compensate for the hand they were dealt.

You asked:

“will the huters of Wisconsin be required to buy an archery license to hunt with their crossbow?”

And

“What would be the need to purchase an archery license if the crossbow is not concidered archery equipment?”

Under that way of thinking, crossbowers that want to hunt the firearms bear season, turkey season, small game season and predators season are gun hunters because they have to buy a gun deer licenses to use their crossbows in the gun season. I think your premise is flawed if you think that it’s the weapon that defines the season. These changes allowed the elderly and handicapped to use any weapon within all seasons regardless of what the season is labeled.

Since you don’t live in WI, you wont know that the most disabled can use a care or truck as a hunting stand. They can discharge their gun or crossbow from a vehicle as a way of compensating for their disadvantage. No other person can hunt from a car or truck so you can see, its not about the crossbow or the gun or the car or the truck, its about allowing them the advantages they need to compensate for their station in life. Allowing crossbows in an archery season does not define them bows any more that it defines them as gun because they are now allowed in firearms season.

Those definitions exist in administrative code and thanks to the great legislation in AB-384, it now defines them in statue (an important point some completely missed but is perhaps the most important part of the bill that I must have forgot to mention during this process.)

Geat question Tim, glad I had a chance to clear this up.

Edited by xranger, 07 March 2012 - 01:20 PM.


#3 Urban Legend

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 01:44 PM

So what is the answer? When I come up this year do I buy an archery license or a gun license?

#4 xranger

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 02:05 PM

Oh and since inquiring minds want to know, Tim riddle me this. Since it is now legal in WI to buy a gun deer license but use a vertical bow to hunt in the gun deer season, does that mean a vertical bow is now a gun?????

Thank goodness the people drafting AB-384 were smart enough to statutorily define what is a gun and a bow and a crossbow. They sure were smart fellas for thinking that through so well.

#5 xranger

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 02:14 PM

So what is the answer? When I come up this year do I buy an archery license or a gun license?


For what? If you come for the gun deer season it means you can come here and hunt with a bow or a crossbow you would do so under a gun deer license. (Remember, its not the weapon you use that defines the season and using a bow or crossbow under a gun deer license doe not make them a gun)

If you come for the bow deer season it means you can come here and hunt with a bow unless you are disabled or over 65 and then you can still use a bow (most folks gloss over that) or if disabled or over 65 you can use a crossbow (Remember, its not the weapon you use that defines the season)

You can even hunt from a car or truck if you are disabled enough. Again, its not the weapon or tools used in the season that define the season. Kudos to the smart guys that wrote AB-384. They really defined this properly and considered all the situations. Well done guys.

Edited by xranger, 07 March 2012 - 02:34 PM.


#6 SPECIALIZED

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 02:21 PM

But still no crossbow in archery season, for every one.Yes or no will do.

#7 xranger

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 02:34 PM


But still no crossbow in archery season, for every one.Yes or no will do.



No for “everyone” that is 64 and under or of able bodied/good heath.

Yes for “Everyone” that is 65 and older and/or disabled.

#8 SPECIALIZED

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 02:43 PM

No for “everyone” that is 64 and under or of able bodied/good heath.

Yes for “Everyone” that is 65 and older and/or disabled.


Thanks for the straight answer.

#9 xranger

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 03:23 PM

No worries. This actually aligns with the results of 5 different surveys/votes of the hunting community in WI over the last 7 years. The majority of those respondants have consistantly and repeatedly stated that they do not support crossbows for everybody within an archery deer season. Vox populi.

#10 Jerry M

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 03:47 PM

Urban,

When you come up here, make sure you ask at least ten people. Then, check with at least three wardens. Make sure you call the DNR. Check with the usual guys that post here; I think three of them, maybe four. Let's say four.

Now, contact WBH, and just to make sure, check with x.

By my count you will now have 20 different answers. Welcome to Wisconsin.

I, however, would be happy to put you up on my 41 acres, and you could stay in the trailer with my wife and I. We both hunt. You would, however have to sleep on the couch.

Remember that surveys and polls and opinions probably all fit in the same category....
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#11 Tim50

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 04:42 PM

So what is the answer? When I come up this year do I buy an archery license or a gun license?


From what I got from a Wisconsin resident if you have a valid WI hunting license you do not need an archery license to hunt with your crossbow. Because the WBH legal hacks wrote the law to eliminate the crossbow from THEIR season and aligning it with a firearm it is not thought of as archery equipment. And by letting the WBH lobby this language the state of Wisconsin DNR will lose out on any license fee's that should have been associated with crossbow full inclusuion! There is some confusion on this because some feel if you have to purchase an archery license then you should have all the privlegdes associated with archery equipment! I guess the WBH does not care about funding for programs that do not impact their narrow agenda! In their efforts to keep fellow hunters out of the WBH season their greed has hurt the entire program! Would you expect anything less from the WBH? Now they are rallying the troops to fight a motion to lower the age for crossbow use to 55! I'm sure a couple bucks in th the right politician's pocket can get some legislation passed. It worked pretty well with this bill!!!

Edited by Tim50, 07 March 2012 - 04:50 PM.


#12 Tim50

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 05:03 PM

I was just wondering if the Governor gets recalled BEFORE he signs the bill would the WBH get all their money back or would they just get a "rain check" form their pocket legislators??? :D

#13 xranger

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 09:00 PM

From what I got from a Wisconsin resident if you have a valid WI hunting license you do not need an archery license to hunt with your crossbow.


Yes, thanks to recent legislation buying a gun deer license, bear license, turkey license, small game license, predator license and fishing license and eventual wolf and elk license) you can hunt with a crossbow as much as you want so you are right, you and others can come to WI and hunt till your blue in the face with your crossbow and never have to buy an archery deer license. Consider that an invitiation.


Because the WBH legal hacks wrote the law to eliminate the crossbow from THEIR season and aligning it with a firearm it is not thought of as archery equipment.



Well we both know that is not factual because recent legislation allows vertical bows to be used under all the firearms licenses yet it does not make vert. bows align with firearms. Again (even though you dont want to hear this) the weapon does not define the season.

the state of Wisconsin DNR will lose out on any license fee's that should have been associated with crossbow full inclusuion!


Well no, since nobody is excluded from the fall woods this will not have that effect and beyond that it might actually have the effect of increasing revenue for those folks that dont like guns but would like to hunt bear, turkey, deer, small game, predators, rough fish, etc but dont want to master a bow and arrow. They now have the ability to hunt all those species with a crossbow so license sale may actually go up because of recent legislation. I know of one peerson in particular that is anti gun but would hunt if there was a weapon available to them that does not require the level of constant practice associatied with a bow.

There is some confusion on this because some feel if you have to purchase an archery license then you should have all the privlegdes associated with archery equipment!


I guess the confusion is easy to correct with simple education. I seems to bear repeating (even though you dont want to hear it) the weapon does not define the season. When I buy a gun deer license, I can hunt with a bow and arrow and/or a crossbow. Buying a gun deer license has all the privlegdes associated with archery equipment!

I guess the WBH does not care about funding for programs that do not impact their narrow agenda!


I would hope not. What organization does? I applaud them for that.

Now they are rallying the troops to fight a motion to lower the age for crossbow use to 55!


Yes I read how that happened and how one or two people disinfrancised the voters in one county and erased and rewrote the request of a citizen and changed his request to be opposite of what he sought. I can say I blame them for fighting obvious corruption especially since its all captured in the open records meeting minutes of exactly what happened.

#14 xranger

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 09:07 PM

I was just wondering if the Governor gets recalled BEFORE he signs the bill would the WBH get all their money back or would they just get a "rain check" form their pocket legislators??? :D



The timeline as described indicates that if a recall were to happen it would take place in the late summer or fall. The bill will be signed in the next 10 days so I think that should rest your concerns but I do have to ask, how much money? and to whom? and when? I ask because you seem very certain based on your commments so I and others would be interested in answers to those questions. You can answer them in this order when you are ready.

1. Did the WBH pay money to the Governor?

2. How much money did the WBH pay the Governor?

3. When did they make this payment to the governor?

4. What was this payment for?

5. Was money payed to legislators? How much? When? and where?

Take your time in answering these questions. You seem pretty well versed in this so let everyonse else know............ Unless you just made that up and have now answers to the questions or anything to indicate what you said is factual. Either way, I and others would like to know which it is so either supply all the details or simply say you made it all up.

Edited by xranger, 07 March 2012 - 09:08 PM.


#15 schneep

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:06 PM

Apparently the state cannot write any rules pretaining to hunting unless they check with the dillusional group the wbh.

Now, a untrained, unskilled child of 12 can hunt deer in Wisconsin with a bow during any season, including the deer archery season, but a skilled, trained and experienced hunter needs to be 65 years of age or handicapped to hunt during that same deer archery season.
Sounds like discrimination and absolutely against the Pittman-Ross Act, time will tell if the wbh can afford --------------------------------------------!! :ass:

#16 xranger

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:32 PM

Apparently the state cannot write any rules pretaining to hunting unless they check with the dillusional group the wbh.



Since the WCF President and V.P. testified in favor of the bill, I suggest they must not share your sentiment.

Now, a untrained, unskilled child of 12 can hunt deer in Wisconsin with a bow during any season, including the deer archery season, but a skilled, trained and experienced hunter needs to be 65 years of age or handicapped to hunt during that same deer archery season. Sounds like discrimination and absolutely against the Pittman-Ross Act, time will tell if the wbh can afford !!



Actually I think you mean 10 year old. A few years ago, WI lowered the hunting age to 10, its no longer 12 years old. You should know that those youth will first be trained via the hunters Ed program and will be skilled as much as a person of any age that hunts with a bow and arrow and hopefully they will make the commitment required to be a bowhunter but like gun hunting and turkey hunting and bear and other game, there is no proficiency requirement in WI. The same applies to crossbow hunters. I am unaware but perhaps you know, Which crossbow maker markes a youth crossbow for hunting big game? I know most if not all bow makers make youth bows suitable fot hunting big game.

Also your premise is flawed. To follow your convoluted concept, an untrained and unskilled 16 year old can park a car in almost any parking stall but a skilled, trained an experienced driver must be handicapped to use one of the blue parking stalls nearer the door in that same parking lot.

And

Now, a untrained, unskilled child of 1 to 64 years old can eat at a restaurant, but a skilled, trained and experienced eater needs to be 65 years of age to get a senior citizen discount in that same restaurant. I think you are confusing the privilege and advantage being afforded to the handicapped and elderly to use a crossbow as a way to compensate for their physical disadvantages as some sort of negative. But you should know that people 65 and up are still free to use a bow and arrow, Age is not a disability and I know many many people 65 and older that still use a bow so they can do the same thing 10 year olds can do I also know several people that are handicapped and eligible to use a crossbow but they still use a bow and arrow thus removing your argument.

Lastly, I am unfamiliar with a “Pittman-Ross Act” I looked but could not find such a thing. Is this something new?

Edited by xranger, 07 March 2012 - 10:39 PM.


#17 xranger

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 06:39 AM

After review I think you might have been talking about the Pittman Robertson act. You will want to know that simply because a purchase of an item that leads to fund returning to the state due to Pittman Roberson is not cause alone to allow that item to be used for hunting. Case in point.

.22 cal rimfire ammo also falls under the P/R act but neither you nor I can use .22 cal rimfire ammo to hunt deer, bear, turkey, waterfowl, etc in WI. Certain shotgun shells also qualify under the P/R act yet neither you nor I can use those types of shells for waterfowl. There is a laundry list of items that fall under P/R act that can’t be used for hunting in WI BUT your point is moot with the passage of AB-384. Now every huntable species can now be hunted with a crossbow by every person meaning there is no inequity from purchases of crossbows and P/R funs in WI. This new legislation completly takes the wind out of what was a very weak sail to begin with. That is why I continually state that this bill was perfectly written because it really was. Hats off to the people that covered every base. :thumbsu:


I Sincerely hope you are not paying for legal council leading to your argument about crossbow and WI and P/R funds because if you are, you are getting bad information. You should have been told that nearly every purchase of a crossbow in WI was done so by a person who used that crossbow for hunting in WI (the elderly and handicapped) with the passage of AB-384, additional crossbows will be purchased in WI by people that will also use them for hunting in WI so the P/R funds that come back to WI will and have been as a result of WI purchases of crossbows used for hunting in WI. Im just glad I was able to set you straight before you tried to pass off such misinformation. I may have just spared you some embarrassment. (Beyond that which have suffered here already)

Edited by xranger, 08 March 2012 - 07:08 AM.


#18 Highlander

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 03:48 PM

Please don't be fooled by Xranger's statements. He is not on the side of the crossbow hunters in Wisconsin, rather he wants to keep archery season for compound bow hunters.

He is a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing. Quite a politican that evades the subject: ;)
Posted Image

See this thread where I debated him and his true colors came out if you have additional questions. :(

http://www.crossbown...ow-bill-passes/

I just pushed the ignor button. :)

#19 schneep

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 06:52 PM

Yep ur right there xranger, I referenced the wrong Act, I am away from home and did not have all info here. But thats ok, because you have no clue as to whats coming, and I intend to keep it that way. By the way, it's not costing meor anyone a penney. It's all free. :lolu: :ass: :lolu:
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#20 Highlander

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 08:23 AM

Hang in there Wisconsin crossbow hunter enthusiasts. Keep fighting you will prevail. :)

Whenever you feel you are loosing the battle, just push the replay button and keep on fighting for your freedom, otherwise the selfish will take it away. ;)



Edited by Highlander, 10 March 2012 - 08:43 AM.