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Reduced arrow weight today...


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#1 kennisondan

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 12:04 AM

Hello sportsmen and sportswomen : I decided today to reduce the weight of the arrows and magnus two blade heads I intend to shoot by 125gr.. so down from 625 to a mere 500gr. .. question is :
how much difference in trajectory do you think it will make ?
a lot
a little
nothing noticeable
or
such a difference that a slight wind will likely waft the arrow out of sight like the house Dorothy was in when she landed in never land.. ( if that happens I am not going to look for it, cause I know what happens in never land at 12 midnite... the big hand touches the little hand... )...
whatcha think ???
I was sighted for 30yds dead on and the highest it got was a little over six inches at fifteen to twenty yards... and it dropped about five or six inches at 35 or so....
I predict it will not make a lot of difference until after 30 yards then it will be a fairly large difference...I missed my target nite shooting and lodged a head or two in some wood that kept them ... think I boogered them up trying to pull them out and do not want to shoot damaged heads so dropped the adapter and went with screw in two blade 125gr. magnus..
my nite vision is a little challenging... actually it sucks..
dk

#2 Guest_vixenmaster_*

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:27 AM

make about an inch diff in your rise at 15-20 and that inch should carry out to where your 30 was. traj. is flatter and speed is faster by about 20-25 fps.

#3 kennisondan

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 12:47 PM

that would be great for me... it may give me a couple yards past 35 too without too much drop ?
would the varizone work with that kind of weight and speed ?
or would it be too slow to match up to any of the settings as designed ?
dk

#4 BePrepared

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 01:15 PM

WOW! you're shooting 600+ grain bolts? What speeds are you getting with those? I'm shooting between 400 and 450 (405 standard with powerbolt and crimson talon 100) and i'm getting about 318-320fps. Do you know what you were shooting before and after the change?

do you see better penetration at those weights? I am scared to give up speed (and increase my drop over time rate). Right now i'm losing about 10-13" in height from 20 to 40 yards. Would you say it's a fair trade?

Edited by BePrepared, 19 February 2009 - 01:32 PM.


#5 kennisondan

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 11:42 PM

I am not the expert here, but my observations are : yes penetration is greatly increased with heavier arrows.. groundhntr shoots through elk shoulders at forty yards with a 650gr. two blade head shot from a 150 pound crossbow...
I have little idea how fast the phoenix is shooting with the heavier arrow, really. i do know it slows it down noticeable ...
I can tell you this from observation : when I sight in at thirty yards it is 6.26 inches over line of sight at the highest which is about 15 to 20 yards and dead on at thirty of course .. and then six inches low at 35...and did not shoot at forty, before lightening up the arrows to 500gr.
The key is this : I just want to shoot through shoulders on pigs or deer and get pass throughs regardless; and I do not mind slowing the arrow cause I wanted to use two blade or three blade fixed resharpenable heads to do it, and they fly better slower, more likely.
Is the 430 grain arrow plenty for deer, give or take 20 or so grains ? sure, it is... and the speed you are shooting is fine too... shoot through the lungs, not through the heaviest bone and you will be doing what most of the successful hunters out there are doing.. once my hog hunt is over I will experiment with lighter arrows .. however I will not go lighter than about 450 grains..
with my terminator and 424gr. at 333fps it was wicked fast, the block targets did not hold the arrow and I would have felt good shooting any deer or hog, but would have strived to avoid the shoulder on hogs and avoided the high scapulae on deer especially with perhaps a mechanical head or a three blade with a steep cutting angle...just to avoid what is sometimes a less than lethal shot that happens once in a while... it probably would shoot through the scapulae and through the deer completely on most occasions, but I do know it is possible it would not if it hit on the ridge of the scapulae ona large deer and things went just wrong... then I could have a one lung hit .. or so I understand it to be ..
so I decided I wanted a little heavier than average and for super penetration, a two blade old style head.. and I am using the phoenix for that ..
with my D Stryker I am shooting 430gr. aroudn 350fps i guess and I am not worried about deer at all.. but I will still shoot for the rib cage and try not to take that high scapula shot or a backbone shot..and I am sitll gonna use a fixed blade in case I hit it without trying to...
I worry too much, but I understand that a mech head from a light arrow hitting too hard a target could give less than the penetration I would want on a really large deer...as you change things out of that equation you up your chances for complete penetraion even with a lower percentage shot: heavier arrow; fixed blade instead of mech. head; two blade instead of three; those are the things that I THINK increase the penetration and increase the chances of a kill with and imperfect shot...iI subscribe to the momentum theory as well as the accepted Kinetic energy theory for penetration...but realize that I am just getting into crossbows and only shot a long bow or two in the years prior to this and one was really slow and the other faster, and I liked heavy arrows and two blades or long low angle three blades from my trad bows...
your rig is a great rig for big game and unless you are shooting really large really tough animals there is no need to question its effectiveness..most bowhunters would say wait till the pig is quartering away and prefer that shot on deer too..and always shoot the rib cage not the low percentage shoulder shot.. I just want to shoot the shoulder shot with this bow and heads...I also like heavy bullets cast lead in pistols though they are not needed.. but they break a shoulder and drop the animal really cool ..
good luck .. your set up and specs are really very good and especially if you want to shoot further than 30 or 36 yards, you do not want to drop the speed too much.. you do lose less speed than you may think with a little extra weight.
hope this explains : I am in the minority on the heavy arrows thing; what you have is fine. if you change it is all a trade off.. nothing free in archery..
enjoy the ride.
dk

#6 kennisondan

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 01:06 AM

I dropped the arrow weight and shot last nite, forgot in part I had changed the weight by 125gr.... shot and hit the target top edge and shot over... will have to re sight it in big time... it is much MUCH faster at 500 grains than at 625gr. I can hear the difference in the delay between shot and strike...
will report more once I shoot again tomorrow.
dk