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black eagle arrows ?


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#1 kochie

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:56 PM

I was just wondering is there a difference between the black eagle arrows executioners who make camx arrows and camx arrows are there any difference camx seem to be cheaper to buy ?

#2 Stalker

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 06:17 AM

I think you have it backwards.The Camx Accuspine arrows are $75 for 6 arrows.They are spine indexed and have the Lock-n-Load inserts.The Black eagle Executioners from black eagle are not spine indexed to the best of my knowledge and come with 112 or 92 grain inserts. The 20 inch are $86 and change per dozen.South Shore Archery Supply makes arrows using the black eagle shafts.They are one of the sponsors here at CBN and have the best prices from what I have seen with the black eagle shafts.

#3 SouthShoreRat

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:14 AM

We do sell Black Eagle Executioners. We have a process we call SST (static spine tune). This testing process aids in reducing the variance of the static spine of a set of shafts closer together. We do not charge extra for this service, been doing it for our customers for the last 10 years. We have considered offering spine matched Executioner arrows in the near future.

From what I understand Black Eagle is the supplier for Camx arrow shafts.

#4 Redclub

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:08 PM

We do sell Black Eagle Executioners. We have a process we call SST (static spine tune). This testing process aids in reducing the variance of the static spine of a set of shafts closer together. We do not charge extra for this service, been doing it for our customers for the last 10 years. We have considered offering spine matched Executioner arrows in the near future.

From what I understand Black Eagle is the supplier for Camx arrow shafts.

Do you install Q nocks (non illuminated) as an option?

#5 Highlander

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 02:02 PM

One question for both Camx and South Shore:

You say the arrows are spine indexed and I assume this means the cock vane is installed at the highest spine value very meticulously?

What about the spine variation tolerance between your arrows, to what level of precision are your shafts matched regarding the tolerance between the true static spine values for each set of arrows?

It is my understanding that the accuracy of cock vane placement (determined by spine value) and the degree of spine variation between a set of arrows are what is most important when selecting arrows, followed by the degree of straightness (all referring to carbon arrows & the degree of straightness is much less relevant than these two spine concerns I have asked about?). :)

Personally I would love to level the playing field and get to the nitty gritty of what exact specified arrow specs both companies are truely selling. There is no consistency between the meaing of terms used here at least IMHO. :diablo:

Frankly the specs provided for the Black Eagle shafts leave much to be desired (they really don't tell the true reality of what you are buying).

We need a very detailed explanation of the sorting process and specs which are used to really make an educated decsion. :lol:

Edited by Highlander, 31 January 2013 - 05:09 PM.

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#6 SouthShoreRat

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:48 PM

Do you install Q nocks (non illuminated) as an option?


Not at this time

#7 bobbyd1947

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:59 PM

One question for both Camx and South Shore:

You say the arrows are spine indexed and I assume this means the cock vane is installed at the highest spine value very meticulously?

What about the spine variation tolerance between your arrows, to what level of precision are your shafts matched regarding the tolerance between the true static spine values for each set of arrows?

It is my understanding that the accuracy of cock vane placement (determined by spine value) and the degree of spine variation between a set of arrows are what is most important when selecting arrows, followed by the degree of straightness (all referring to carbon arrows & the degree of straightness is much less relevant than these two spine concerns I have asked about?). :)

Personally I would love to level the playing field and get to the nitty gritty of what exact specified arrow specs both companies are truely selling. There is no consistency between the meaing of terms used here at least IMHO. :diablo:

Frankly the specs provided for the Black Eagle shafts leave much to be desired (they really don't tell the true reality of what you are buying).

We need a very detailed explanation of the sorting process and specs which are used to really make an educated decsion. :lol:

X2

#8 A-bar

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:20 PM

Highlander are you willing to pay for it if they are not doing it, If the arrows shoot who cares ! Order a couple Dozen and get at it. And is there any other manufacture of shafts that frankly gives you more spec's then Black Eagle.

Best Alan

Edited by A-bar, 31 January 2013 - 05:22 PM.

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#9 Highlander

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:22 PM

Yes, Dorge provides all the specs you want. Why would you not want to know this information, it is the only way to properly answer the OP's orginal question. I'm just trying to do that for him. My two cents. ;)

If you want to shoot the messanger have at it. :)

Edited by Highlander, 31 January 2013 - 07:54 PM.

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#10 bobbyd1947

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:31 PM

Highlander are you willing to pay for it if they are not doing it, If the arrows shoot who cares ! Order a couple Dozen and get at it. And is there any other manufacture of shafts that frankly gives you more spec's then Black Eagle.

Best Alan

If you want all the information on your xbow and your optics etc, etc. than why wouldn't you want all the information you can get on your arrows. After all that is the part that does the dispatching.

#11 robertyb

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:40 PM

Have you shot the Black Eagle arrows Highlander? And comparing the aerobolts to most other arrows is really pushing it seeing how they start at $75.00 per 3. I notice you do not have them listed in your signature so I assume that you do not shoot them.

I have been shooting the Black Eagles in an arrow test on another forum. They shoot as good or better than any other crossbow arrow I have shot thus far and cost less than most. I recently found that I was supplied with the .003 tolerance arrows for the test. I fletched them with 2" Blazers and used the supplied plastic nocks.

I had never shot at 50 yards before so I set up and shot to see what would happen. Looks like I pulled one just a tad.
Posted Image

50 Yards looks way out there too.
Posted Image

#12 Highlander

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:47 PM

robertyb,

Did you pull that one arrow or is the spine tolerance for that one arrow significantly different than the rest. Mark that arrow and see where it hits again. If it hits in the same spot again, it is likely do to too much spine variance from the rest of the group. Also, I would point out from your group, is that you have 3 smaller goups happening in that total group if you look carefully. Spine variation may very well be the difference for that, If you even care about that kind of accuracy. :)

No, I don't shoot the BlackHawks. I shoot aluminums like in my signature. However comparing your goup at 50 yards to my groups with my aluminum, your groups are not that good. I'm talking splitting arrow shafts or breaking off nocks at that same distance. So not to sound nasty my friend, I'm not impressed with the quality I see from your group, just providing the facts. :)

My aluminums cost me less than $4.00/shaft, what do you think about that. :)

Why do you guys insist on shooting carbons when you don't understand what's really going on. Just stick with aluminums in my book. I can outshoot all you guys with aluminums out of the box compared to most carbons out there, all day long at a fraction of the price and yes my arrows last me well over a season and still are more accuratel than what you are shooting. To add to that I can straighten shafts that are off a bit and still out shoot you with these BlackHawks all day long. :lol:

I will also add that at 50 yards my groups will be just as good as Dorge's best arrows at the same distance. To beat my aluminums you will need to shoot at a much greater distance than 50 yards. If you don't believe me ask Dorge. ;)

Edited by Highlander, 31 January 2013 - 06:13 PM.

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#13 Highlander

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:56 PM

Edited out my statements. Sorry. Now everything is level and equal. Even Steven. Doesn't get any better than this. :)

Please accept my humble apologies for my childish behavior. :(

Thank's Corky, you set me straight as usual and I thank you much for that. :good:

Perhaps others can do the same. :drinks:

Edited by Highlander, 31 January 2013 - 07:21 PM.


#14 A-bar

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:59 PM

Highlander Dorge provides all the specs you want and you pay for it. Black Eagle is not selling a few arrows out of a shop.

#15 A-bar

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:09 PM

Dorge uses some Black Eagle shaft to build his arrows maybe there is a reason for that.

As for( Edit Cliques :sorry:) your has been around for a long time.

I'm Done.

Edited by A-bar, 31 January 2013 - 07:49 PM.


#16 Highlander

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:45 PM

Sorry, Let me edit that part for you. That's not fair and I appologize for that statement. I'm lowering my standards which I should not have done. I'm not perfect either. ;)

Nothing wrong with BlackEagle shafts. Don't take me wrong. Please. :)

To quote the orginal OP, let's stay on subject:

"I was just wondering is there a difference between the black eagle arrows executioners who make camx arrows and camx arrows are there any difference camx seem to be cheaper to buy ?"

To answer the OP's question, which place to buy the BlackEagle's from and why the difference in cost?

You start with a shaft, nothing wrong with the tolerance values for this BE shaft compared to what others make and perhaps above the crowd, but there is not enough info for me to determine whether CamX or other builders who use this shaft for their own arrows are best to go with. I woudl pay more for spine variation indexing completed and making sure the cock feather is installed at the exact place it should be. Little info provided reagarding this matter. ;)

Which of the companies sort the shafts for spine variation and to what tolerance levels or perhaps they both just use what comes with the shaft which is not that great and your groups will open up. Hopefully you understand what I'm talking about. Neither companies mentioned within the thread have supplied this information.

Ok, if these arrows are good enough for you than go with the cheaper price. If you want to know which is more accurate than you need the facts I discussed. You may want to try some much cheaper carbons and they will work the same out of the box. If you are only interested in 3-4" groups out of the box at 50 yards, there are plenty of other cheaper choices than the BE shafts. HTH

Edited by Highlander, 31 January 2013 - 07:25 PM.


#17 Corky

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:48 PM

TIME OUT for humor... the word is Cliques! ;-)

Corky

#18 Highlander

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:51 PM

For all I know with the specs provided, the blackhawks sold by CamX and other companies as special arrows may be no different than what you can buy off the shelf. Hopefull at least these companies have worked out the spine values of their shafts to what works best out of the Camx. No one is stating what the average spine value is for the shaft. Perhaps their is a significantly difference between the two. Now many average spine value shafts does BlackHawk sell? ;)

Edited by Highlander, 31 January 2013 - 07:13 PM.


#19 robertyb

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 07:53 PM

I did forget to tell you that as a part of the test I did not adjust my scope setting at all from where I had it sighted in shooting the factory Firebolts that came with my bow. I assure you that I can Robinhood all your arrows out to 40 yards. That was my first attempt at 50 yards and the only group I shot cause i like my arrows too much to shoot groups at closer ranges.

I might adjust the scope soon for the Black Eagles just to see what they will really do. Did you also read the part where these are not the .001s but the .003s? They are not spine adjusted either.

Edited by robertyb, 31 January 2013 - 07:53 PM.


#20 Highlander

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:04 PM

Robert,

I would be interested in your results and providing information after you number your shafts and see where they land in relation to the group. This is the cheapest way to sort your arrows by spine variance to get even tighter groups, not requiring a spine tester. HTH

EDIT: I agree, you should shoot each arrow at different small dots, 1" or even smaller (I use the smallest little dot I can see at a given distance & I use florescent organge pieces of duct tape). The smaller the dot the more accurate your shot will be. Number your arrows and see where they hit in relation to the small dot. You may find patterns developing where certain numbered arrows hit in the same place in relation to the dot. Use a bench while supporting both ends of the xbow, to where you don't need to even hardly hold the xbow for best results. Finger control on the trigger and breathing also apply. :)

Edited by Highlander, 31 January 2013 - 08:13 PM.