4 replies to this topic

[buckeye dan]

Sorry guys and gals but I have been very preoccupied with Second Amendment, Tenth Amendment, concealed carry and other political or firearms issues. I probably should have brought this information to you all months ago but I would hope most of you found it on your own. It seems a couple of my worlds have collided.

The PA folks have probably already posted this information in the PA forum but it belongs here as well since the NABC is a crossbow hunters worst enemy it applies to all of us. I simply have not had the time to keep tabs on all of the forums related to crossbow issues including the PA forum here. I would also ask that the individual forums for the various states and organizations copy their info into this forum on a more regular basis. This information just keeps getting reused/recycled for the next line of attack in the next state trying to pass crossbow inclusion so we all need to see it.

Letters from the NABC to the NRA:

Wayne LaPierre
NRA Executive Vice President and Chief Executive Officer
11250 Waples Mill Road
Fairfax, WA 22030
Chris W. Cox
NRA – ILA Executive Director
11250 Waples Mill Road
Fairfax, VA 22030
January 21, 2009
Gentlemen:
The attached NRA-ILA letter of January 16th regarding “the growing debate concerning the use of
crossbows in Pennsylvania” highlights what appears to be a growing disconnect between the NRA
and the hunters of this country.
You must be aware that a substantial percentage of your membership is made up of bowhunters
that support the NRA’s position on the Second Amendment. Most bowhunters also own and hunt
with firearms. With that in mind, it’s hard to believe the NRA would take a position contrary to the
wishes of so many of its members on a matter that it apparently doesn’t fully understand.
While the proliferation of crossbows has been directed by those that stand to profit from that
action, the bowhunters of this continent stand almost universally opposed to it. Why? The
crossbow lobby will suggest that the millions of bowhunters are elitists or just don’t want the
competition. These manufacturers and trade groups have spent huge sums of money and
influence trying to make that case to the public, outdoor writers, game managers, game
commissioners, legislators, and apparently now the NRA. At the same time they have been
desperately trying to downplay the effectiveness of their own modern crossbows until they have
been legalized as archery equipment.
However, what they won’t say is that bowhunters oppose crossbows in archery seasons because
bowhunters understand that it will change the dynamic of a sport that thrives for almost the
opposite reason from results-oriented firearms seasons. Bowhunting has flourished when other
hunting sports have floundered because it is diametrically different. Bowhunting exists exactly
because it is difficult and challenging by definition, and because it requires a higher level of
commitment that not all hunters choose to make.
Your letter recites many of the half-truths often published by crossbow promoters. Unfortunately
you have neglected to research them enough to discover that the gains in “recruitment and
retention” have often been short-lived, and there is mounting evidence to suggest that after an
initial surge, interest in an “easier” bowhunt dwindles even beyond where it was before it was
changed to a crossbow season - where conventional archery equipment could also be used. If
the NRA is really concerned about “declining” hunter numbers and preserving “our hunting
heritage” you would do well to listen to those same hunters about the long-term consequences of
replacing one of hunting’s greatest success stories, bowhunting, with a season that’s not being
requested by hunters but by commercial interests. You would think that the NRA, once
considered a bastion of American rights and ideals, would be leading the fight against such a
gross erosion of the Public Trust Doctrine.
The North American Bowhunting Coalition is a coalition of most state, national and provincial
bowhunting organizations with tens of thousands of active bowhunting members, many of which
are also NRA members. These organizations have gone on record, unanimously, in opposition to
crossbows as archery equipment; and notably not in opposition to increased hunting opportunity,
which we avidly support, or even crossbows as hunting equipment outside of archery seasons.
We have no interest in discouraging any hunting opportunity, quite the contrary. However, the
North American Bowhunting Coalition and all of our members will aggressively fight to safeguard
the heritage of bowhunting just as you fight for the heritage to keep and bear arms. Hopefully we
can fight together and not with each other.
The North American Bowhunting Coalition respectfully requests that if the NRA cannot find your
way to supporting bowhunters in this ongoing conflict with the commercial promotion of crossbows
as archery equipment, that you at least defer this matter to the organizations and countless
individuals that have a direct stake in it.
Your immediate response is critical. It can be transmitted via email to
NABC@nabowhuntingcoalition.com. The hunters of Pennsylvania deserve to know where the
NRA stands before their Game Commission convenes on January 25th.
Sincerely,
Doug Clayton
National Chairman
North American Bowhunting Coalition
Attach: NRA-ILA transmittal, Jan. 16, 2009
NABC member letter on crossbows
CC: United Bowhunters of Pennsylvania
Pennsylvania Game Commission
NABC member organizations


Letter 2


Wayne LaPierre
NRA Executive VP and CEO
11250 Waples Mill Rd.  
Fairfax, VA  22030

Chris W Cox
NRA – ILA Executive Director
11250 Waples Mill Rd.
Fairfax, VA  22030
May 18, 2009
Gentlemen,

Attached is a copy of a letter sent via overnight mail to each of you on January 21, 2009.  While it was disappointing that neither of you chose to respond, we realize that anything you said in response would be unpopular with someone and respected your silence.  We were optimistic however that you realized that the NRA had made a colossal mistake based on bad information and simply backed out of the dispute and left it to those people that had a dog in this fight.

It is now clear however that you and the NRA have chosen to chase the money and disregard the large and dedicated portion of you membership that has an interest in saving bowhunting, one of the only hunting disciplines that has continued to grow as others decline.

Darren Lasort, your representative, recently appeared before a committee of the Texas state legislature and argued on behalf of the crossbow lobby to add crossbows to the Texas archery seasons.

Mr. Lasort continued to recite the same false information the NRA used in Pennsylvania, arguing for example that adding crossbows to archery seasons would obviously improve hunter recruitment and retention.  As we noted in our previous correspondence, that is simply not true.  The reality is that in some of the states where this great experiment has been tried, the very few new hunters that have been added to the bowhunting ranks are more than offset by a larger number that are leaving in disgust and frustration.  We have attached graphs of hard data from new crossbow states of Georgia and Tennessee. These are facts, not marketing propaganda, that show the real and negative impact of crossbows on hunter recruitment and retention.

Mr. Lasort and the crossbow lobby suggested that crossbows would be a great tool for recruiting women and children. Anyone that has handled a cocked crossbow knows how inherently dangerous they are, well known for severing fingers and fracturing wrists, and understands that young hunters don’t belong anywhere near them.  Because of their mass weight and size, crossbows have very little interest to potential women hunters.

We have also attached documented data, not innuendo, that show modern crossbows are vastly superior to even the most sophisticated compound bows in things like trajectory, kinetic energy and accuracy potential.

Finally, lest you think this is an issue where the NRA can sell out a large portion of your membership and nobody will notice, we have attached documents that indicate how passionate hunters feel about this issue.  Because of the commitment and dynamics of bowhunting, bowhunters have always been some of the most active and passionate members of the hunting community.  You may be surprised at how many of your most active, dedicated and generous members are avid bowhunters and oppose crossbows in archery seasons.

We will ask politely one more time, and this time we expect the courtesy of a timely reply, that the NRA and your affiliated organizations withdraw your support for the introduction of crossbows into archery seasons.  We have no opposition to support for crossbows outside of archery seasons or for the handicapped, but will take appropriate measures to mobilize the bowhunting community if you chose to continue down this path.

As we have already noted, most of us believe in the Second Amendment cause the NRA stands for, and would hate to take action that would weaken your organization.  However, I think you, more than anyone, can understand that we are fighting to save traditions and a way of life that we value greatly, and will do whatever is necessary to preserve and protect the heritage of bowhunting.

Your prompt reply will be appreciated.


Sincerely,

Doug Clayton

National Chairman
North American Bowhunting Coalition

   Enclosures: Jan 21 letter
GA data
TN data
Trajectory comparison
Energy comparison
Accuracy comparison
OL survey results
TWIMC letter

Edited by buckeye dan, 09 July 2009 - 12:02 PM.

[buckeye dan]

Minutes of the North American Bowhunting Coalition annual meeting
Denver Colorado
April 26-27, 2009



The fourth annual meeting of NABC was held immediately following the biannual Pope and Young convention in Denver.  Holding it in conjunction with the P&Y convention works well because many of the attendees are already there, and P&Y has always helped provide logistical support to NABC.

By charter, NABC serves as a coalition of state, national and provincial bowhunting organizations to promote, preserve and defend the ideals of bowhunting on a regional, national and international level.  By sharing information, concerns and best-practices the organizational members of NABC are better equipped to deal with current issues as they arise in their state or province.  

While the most obvious concern at the moment is the continuing threat of crossbows taking over archery seasons, several other subjects were also discussed at length.  

Marilyn Bentz of the National Bowhunter Education Foundation started the meeting with a presentation on Project STAND, the NBEF’s latest program on treestand safety.  She also covered a new “distance learning” program they are now using in several states.  A few points from her presentation that might be of interest to individual organizations: Project STAND is looking for advertising opportunities in state bowhunting magazines, and she noted that many new deep equipment discounts are available to bowhunter education instructors through NBEF.

The subject then turned to crossbows and what’s happening across the country and beyond.  Mike Foust of United Bowhunters of Pennsylvania gave an update on what happened in Pennsylvania.  Unfortunately, their Game Commission was persuaded by a lot of misinformation and flat-out lies to include crossbows in their archery season.  It then became very political and even with better facts, not enough commissioners would change their vote.  There is evidence that some key people were provided free crossbow hunts and (expensive) crossbow equipment to “help them understand what crossbow hunting is about”.  This was also the first time the NRA inexplicitly jumped in in support of crossbows.  Because the whole thing generated so much national and state attention some commissioners have resigned or retired, and there is still a remote chance that the decision could be overturned.

Attendees expressed appreciation to NABC for responding to the NRA memo and helping coordinate timely updates and response to the situation in Pennsylvania.

G. Fred Asbell and Dean Hall gave an update from Michigan, where their crossbow battle appears to have been lost in the last few months.  Despite a long history of the Michigan Bowhunters Association working with their DNR and NR Board to actively keep crossbows out of their archery season, a legislator has now stepped in and has convinced enough of his fellow politicians to overrule them all.  Again, there is evidence of favors and political arm-twisting, but the net result is that Michigan’s archery season will become a crossbow season.

Dean provided a very complete 14-page report chronicling the history of their crossbow battle and the resulting changes to Michigan’s regulations.

Mike Brust, Secretary of NABC then introduced a crossbow “packet” that was developed to help the state organizations respond to and be more proactive regarding crossbow threats in their states or provinces.  While NABC put the packet together, some of the information came from work already done by Mark Scott and Gary Socola of New York Bowhunters.  It was noted that these packets aren’t for the attendees; they need to be distributed to the decision-makers in their states or provinces in order to respond to all the misinformation being spread by the crossbow lobby.  The “packets” are folders of documented and footnoted facts about the real performance differences between crossbows and modern archery equipment, and the adverse effects crossbows have had on archery seasons.  

The (false) arguments most commonly used by the crossbow lobby are that:  
Crossbow performance is virtually identical to modern compound bows;
Crossbows will provide a sharp increase in hunter recruitment and retention;
Other than a few vocal dissidents and selfish bowhunters, most hunters want the additional “choice” of crossbows in archery seasons.  

Unfortunately, the crossbow proponents have been pushing these points for so long that they are now being accepted in some circles as fact.  However, as crossbows are being added to archery seasons in some states and provinces, the data is beginning to clearly show that these are myths at best, or in many cases, deliberate deception.  In order to put the accurate information in a format that politicians will understand and take the time to review, it was felt that we needed to provide them with the correct information in a very brief but clear and compelling way.  The “packets” contain only 11 individual sheets, basic graphs and data – without a lot of text – and a DVD copy of the informational video of the PSE TAC 15 crossbow.  In direct comparison to a modern compound bow, the data and graphs show that crossbows are far superior in trajectory, energy and accuracy.  The data also shows that after crossbows were added to the state of Georgia’s archery season, recruitment and retention declined – significantly - and participation in their “dumbed down” archery season has fallen well below where it was when the season was only for archery equipment.

The packets were very well received and everyone seemed to feel they would be and excellent tool – but they would be of little value if we didn’t get them into the hands of the decision-makers in each state.  Extra copies, including the DVD, will be available through the NABC office in Chatfield, MN.  There was also some interest in developing more individual sheets relating to the sharp increase in harvest success in Nova Scotia after crossbows were added, and showing that conventional archery equipment has been very adequate to manage urban deer populations and crossbows aren’t “the answer” for those applications.

Mark Scott then showed a Power Point presentation put together by New York Bowhunters that can also be used to dispel most of the crossbow propaganda.  It uses most of the “packet” pages but goes into much more detail.  At 62 pages it provided a very comprehensive examination of the subject.  It too was very well received and will be available through the NABC.

Following the crossbow discussion was a roundtable discussion on how to use NABC to best serve all of the organization members.  It was felt that we needed to further improve our communication network, primarily with email and our website and do a better job promoting NABC and increasing our name recognition.  We should also expand the scope of our member contact email list to include the organizations own email address and that of their secretaries and editors.  Jack Frost suggested we do a future presentation on regulations for non-profit organizations, all their variations, and the tax implications they have on state organizations.

With the growing popularity of internet message boards, there was discussion from many organizations that they are now being criticized by a small minority of individuals who now have an instant audience to use to push their own agendas, primarily by attacking the organization or its officers.  The general consensus was that as difficult as it is, the best approach was to ignore them, regardless of how much they egg you on, and without a controversy or debate, they lose their audience and fade away.

There was then an extensive discussion on some of the best ways to maintain a good relationship with the decision-makers in your state.  Some were:
Members of your Game Commission and key legislators should be invited to your banquet.
Make key decision-makers honorary members of your organization.
Do write-ups, with pictures, about them in your newsletters or magazines.
Before elections, host a fundraiser (preferably at your home) for key legislators, invite bowhunters.
Host a “legislative breakfast” in the capitol city when they are in session.
If you can’t speak to a legislator often, develop a good relationship with one of his/her aides.
Help create a “Sportsman’s Legislative Caucus” in your state.

A discussion on gaining and retaining membership followed. Some suggestions:
A couple states were able to buy the archery license buyers’ list from their DNR.  In Indiana they were able to get it very reasonably because statistics show that members of state orgs. buy more licenses and harvest more deer.
Most organizations offer life memberships, although the fee varies widely.
Adding a promotional item to multiple year memberships helps get members to upgrade and improves year-to-year retainage.
Kentucky offers a $10 student membership.
Missouri offers a business membership, which includes a small ad in their magazine.
Several states offered free memberships to active members in the military.
Indiana adds $5 to each membership for NASP.

We then broke into our regional meetings to discuss regional topics.  The meeting reports from the regional chairmen are attached to the end of these minutes.  The southeast region discussions revolved around crossbows and a follow-up discussion of several of the roundtable topics, particularly communications and the importance of building and maintaining a good relationship with the decision-makers in your state.

[buckeye dan]

Monday began with a presentation from Lou Compton (30 yrs in law enforcement) of Maryland Bowhunters Society on recognizing and dealing with fraud or theft from your organization. Amazingly, almost every organization there had experienced it at some point. Several had recent problems and some amounted to tens of thousands of dollars.  Lou gave an excellent Power Point presentation on how to deal with it and avoid loss.  It was quite extensive and will be put up on the NABC website.  

We wrapped up with suggested action items for the coming year.  Some of the main ones were:
NABC rep should attend the major national caucuses
Further improve our communication network
Try to get mailing addresses for all state associations on the website
Improve our national presence and exposure
Do a presentation on non-profit organizational and tax structures at our next meeting
Get crossbow packet pages on website as soon as possible
Besides the national meeting, try to schedule interim regional meetings
Do an Urban Bowhunting update at the next meeting
At the next meeting, discuss what states that have crossbows are doing now, next
Steering Committee should meet face-to-face between annual meetings
Prepare occasional news releases; also forward them to each org.
Write a reply to Outdoor Life Magazine to respond to all the incorrect statements in the Bow Wars article in the latest issue
Provide a quarterly NABC Report column that can be used in org. publications
Try to include more email addresses for org. editors in our database
Send another welcome letter or email to orgs. that haven’t responded in past
Try to cultivate positive relationships with outdoor writers
Have discussions on CWD, feeding and baiting at our next meeting
Have regional Steering Committee rep. contact members in his district more often
Develop more pages for crossbow packet if possible or appropriate
Maintain annual meetings
Provide NABC info to P & Y for their newsletter




Mike Brust

Secretary,
North American Bowhunting Coalition


WESTERN GROUP  NABC REPORT
*
Alberta, Oregon, Alaska, Montana and Idaho were present.
*
Discussion items included:
*
Statewide annual meetings vs. regional meetings for the states.* Better attendance for states doing regional meetings.* One idea was to partner with pro-shops for regional meetings.
*
We need better messaging/communications with the bowhunting public.* One thought was to link with graduates from the bowhunter education program.* Many aren't members and don't understand the value or benefits of a state organization.
*
A good public outreach opportunity in Montana involved members helping out at a neighboring ranch where the widow was trying to cope with the loss of her husband.
*
The crossbow hasn't materialized as a big issue as it is in the eastern and mid-west states.* Oregon may be singled out as a pos6ter state for getting the crossbow in archery season in the west.* Talked about being pro-active with new regulations for the west.* (Mark Scott had a good report on points to “beat down’ a crossbow bill/proposal in states.)

Some points:* NRA endorsement say "firearm' all over it.* Use this point.* Get a separate license where crossbow is legal or being considered.* Stress "it is not a bow".* Use the fact sheets from reports this meeting, ie. Georgia facts.* Stress adaptive equipment more.* (See New York Bowhunter's updated power point program.)
*
Mandatory reporting for hunters:* MT-NO.; OR-being implemented;* AK-for draw units only with penalty for not reporting; ID-yes with penalty for not reporting;* Alberta-Yes, but discontinued and went online with a 96% compliance.
*
One similar issue in western states:* Idaho is*eliminating rifle elk bugling seasons except in wilderness seasons.* Now bow harvest on mature bulls is getting too high.* Same issue (high bow harvest on mature bulls in some units)*in Oregon, although there is no elk bugling seasons in rifle seasons.* Montana has some of the same problems


Notes from the NE Region:

- Lou Compton from Maryland is the new NE Regional Chair starting July 1, congrats Lou.

- possibly have internet based meetings for the NE then chair types up notes to share with rest of NABC and to use a reference in future.

- possibly chat room as well for general information exchange.

- concern for communications between groups and trying to get everyone more active/responsive to share concerns/information.


Report from the Midwest Regional meeting:

The minutes from the Midwest:

1.   Tim Labbe of Indiana was elected the new Midwest regional chairman
*
2.   It was mentioned that the NABC Chairman-Elect position is open and needs filling.

3.* North Dakota talked about the NASP program and the rebate they get from purchasing targets for the program.* Apparently the target company contacted ND Fish and Game (NDFG)*about
**** the*rebates but if the rebates went directly to*NDFG the money would have to be put into the general fund.* So NDFG asked the ND bowhunters if the company could send them the rebates
**** and they would then make a donation to NDFG so the money would stay*within the department*for the NASP program (this amounted to $1000).* So if your state participates in NASP look
**** into the target rebate and see if it goes back into the program and not your state's general fund.

4.* NE mentioned that Bow Tech has a complete shooting trailer that could possibly be used at state bowhunting shoots/gatherings.*

5.* NE mentioned that for membership renewal they sent out two reminders that are color coded.

[Guide Girl]

"Because of their mass weight and size, crossbows have very little interest to potential women hunters."

People, this is my favorite lie told here. I feel I need to elaborate. The idea of hunting with a crossbow, recruited me! Besides recruiting me to hunting, it also recruited me to vertical bows, pistols, and shotguns for wing shooting. Then, gaining enough knowledge to become a hunting guide, support several hunting organizations, contests, organizations who support disabled veterans and paralyzed vets, special needs children, conservation groups, etc. and two record books. All of that takes money that's put back into the state and nation.

That one decision to pick up a crossbow, led me to these several and various things, helped put me out there to be able and recruit other women, men, and children to become hunters, and then, make others willing to learn and be introduced to other hunting tools weather they hunt or just want to shoot targets. At the least, it gave me opportunity to share with voters who now have a better understanding of our heritage.

I know for a fact, I have recruited many others who would have otherwise, never had any interest in hunting or shooting sports. It changed my life, and the life of my family, and on to other families who enjoy the outdoors and hunting. So, don't believe that it's all industry who are pushing for crossbows to be legal archery hunting equipment. It's not true. Don't believe it is not a recruitment tool. Don't believe it's a danger to resources. And last, don't believe it's not archery. An arrow is an arrow.

[ridgehunter]

Very well written, Guide Girl, and right on the money.

As country folks, we are only to aware of the process of spreading fertilizer.  Thank you, Dan, for giving us another invasive odorous use of this application.

To make such an abuse of truth, the NABC must really be afraid of the NRA and the crossbow hunting brothers and sisters across the land.