18 replies to this topic

[Hoosier Hunter]

ATTENTION ALL HOOSIER DEER HUNTERS

The Indiana Department of Natural Resources has proposed and the Natural Resources Commission has preliminarily adopted several crossbow usage proposals for the state of Indiana.

They are:

Crossbows can be used by anyone at age 64 and over

Crossbows can be used in the firearm and muzzleloader season

Crossbows may be used in the Urban Deer Zones

There are no proposals to expand the present crossbow season so that everyone can use them in all of the archery seasons.

Other major proposals are:

Reducing the number of firearm season days from 16 to 9

Reducing the number of muzzleloader season days form 16 to 9

Moving the firearm season to the Saturday before Thanksgiving

A 2 day antlerless only hunt in October

An 8 day antlerless hunt in December

To comment on these proposed rules and since the IDNR recognizes that crossbows are useful in controlling the herd in the urban deer zones please ask for them to reconsider allowing Hoosier hunter the opportunity to use crossbows in all seasons by contacting the NRC by going to the NRC site at:


http://www.in.gov/nrc/2386.htm

Choose “Deer Amendments” from the drop down menu and comment.

The only other means by which comments will be accepted is by regular mail sent to this address:

Natural Resources Commission
Division of Hearings
Indiana Government Center North
100 North Senate Avenue, Room N501
Indianapolis, Indiana 46204-2200

[Riva]

This is the same MO that the anti crossbow people have been using for the last 20 years in other states. Basically, they let seniors use crossbows and allow everybody them to during the firearm season. The call it a fair compromise. I call it a fraud!

Once these regulation are put in place, the anti's will stunt any effort regarding crossbow expansion with the line "What do these people want? We already allow seniors to use a crossbow and they can use them during gun season. Enough is enough already".

My advice...do not fight these regulations. Gladly take them and expand crossbow use by whatever amount it achieves. At the same time, stay on record that you want full inclusion of the crossbow during any season where other archery equipment is permitted. It is difficult, if not impossible to resurrect full inclusion if you previously agreed to regulations that are short of that. Your position must always be; full inclusion of the crossbow, nothing less.

[Hoosier Hunter]

Riva, on 30 July 2010 - 09:14 AM, said:

This is the same MO that the anti crossbow people have been using for the last 20 years in other states. Basically, they let seniors use crossbows and allow everybody them to during the firearm season. The call it a fair compromise. I call it a fraud!

Once these regulation are put in place, the anti's will stunt any effort regarding crossbow expansion with the line "What do these people want? We already allow seniors to use a crossbow and they can use them during gun season. Enough is enough already".

My advice...do not fight these regulations. Gladly take them and expand crossbow use by whatever amount it achieves. At the same time, stay on record that you want full inclusion of the crossbow during any season where other archery equipment is permitted. It is difficult, if not impossible to resurrect full inclusion if you previously agreed to regulations that are short of that. Your position must always be; full inclusion of the crossbow, nothing less.

Very true... That is exactly what the MBA did in Michigan.

The IDNR is basically saying that crossbow will help in herd control by the following proposal :

Crossbows may be used in the Urban Deer Zones.

If that is so why do they not do this statewide in other high population areas?

[Hoosier Hunter]

Hoosier Hunter, on 30 July 2010 - 01:02 PM, said:

Very true... That is exactly what the MBA did in Michigan.

The IDNR is basically saying that crossbow will help in herd control by the following proposal :

Crossbows may be used in the Urban Deer Zones.

If that is so why do they not do this statewide in other high population areas?

TTT......

[quadkiller]

i'm doin what i can. making calls and emails. they have dates available for walk in comments now. i didn't know if you new of this yet. i was told this by my local biologist.

[Hoosier Hunter]

quadkiller, on 08 August 2010 - 11:13 AM, said:

i'm doin what i can. making calls and emails. they have dates available for walk in comments now. i didn't know if you new of this yet. i was told this by my local biologist.

Yes sir...ask thenm if they think that the crossbows will help in the UDZs why don't they make it statewide?




DNR plans five deer-rule open house meetings

The Indiana Department of Natural Resources has scheduled five open house meetings to share information about proposed changes to deer hunting regulations.

A rules package put forth by the DNR Division of Fish and Wildlife received preliminary approval from the Natural Resources Commission in July. The rules package is open to public comment and will be the subject of official public hearings sometime in early 2011.

“We think it’s important in the meantime to inform deer hunters and the public about the reasons behind the proposals,” said Mark Reiter, director of the Division of Fish and Wildlife. “With the feedback we’ve received so far, it’s clear there is some misunderstanding about the goals of our management strategy and how the various pieces fit into our plan.”

Dates, times and locations for the open houses are:

-- Aug. 16, 2-6 p.m. at Pike Township Public Library, 6525 Zionsville Road, Indianapolis

-- Aug. 18, 2-7 p.m. at Kankakee Fish and Wildlife Area, 4320 W. Toto Road, North Judson

-- Aug. 18, 2-7 p.m. at Jennings County Public Library, 2375 N. SR 3, North Vernon

-- Aug. 19, 2-7 p.m. at DNR Northeast Region Office, 1353 S. Governors Dr., Columbia City

-- Aug. 19, 2-7 p.m. at Sugar Ridge Fish & Wildlife Area, 2310 E SR 364, Winslow

Division of Fish and Wildlife biologists will be present to provide information in an informal discussion format. Attendees are encouraged to ask questions to learn more about the proposed changes.

Attendees also will be able to submit written comments, which will be delivered to the DNR Division of Hearings and the NRC.

The proposed changes include reconfiguring the traditional 16-day firearms and muzzleloader seasons to nine days each while adding new antlerless-only “seasons”—two days in October in designated counties, and eight days in late December statewide.

Another change would extend urban deer zone hunting through Jan. 31. Under current rules, the urban zone season ends the first Sunday in January. Other changes would allow hunters age 64 and older to use crossbows in the early archery season, allow hunters of any age to use crossbows in the firearms, muzzleloader and urban deer zone seasons, and create a new nonresident youth deer license.

Media Contact: Phil Bloom, DNR Communications, (317) 232-4003.

[Hoosier Hunter]

New look to the NRC Comment Page..  


You can still get there from http://www.in.gov/nrc/2386.htm as it will load up -

http://www.in.gov/nrc/2377.htm - immediately.

The “NRC Open Letter to Deer Hunters is there too at -

http://www.in.gov/nr...Open_Letter.pdf

The “Checklist for rule adoption is that at –

http://www.in.gov/nr...C_Checklist.pdf

Now for the input portion -

It states -

Public Comment on Proposed Rule Amendments
The Natural Resources Commission adopted nonrule policy document, Information Bulletin #55. The primary purpose of this bulletin is to encourage consistency, transparency and efficiency in the development of hearing officer reports by employees of the Division of Hearings to the Natural Resources Commission. Information Bulletin #55 clarifies that citizens must identify themselves when filing comments in order for those comments to be included in a report or to be considered by a hearing officer in an analysis. The nonrule policy document also clarifies that public comments will be accepted through the comment form on this page, sent to the Commission by regular mail, or if approved by the Commission, by telephone.

IMPORTANT - If you do not identify yourself your comments will not be included.

The text of the Proposed Deer Rule Changes:

http://www.in.gov/nr...d_Deer_2010.pdf

The Deer (white-tailed) Amendments – Click on to Comment on this rule -

This page will look different that the previous comment page. It even has a Security code so that mass emails can not be sent via a bot..

Be sure and fill the form out completely paying strict attention to the fields that have an asterisk * by them. Those are required fields.

Comment as much as you want and as often as you want.

[Hoosier Hunter]

I attended one of the DNR deer meetings yesterday.

I asked about why the DNR did not propose full inclusion and he said," There was a lot of discussion about that with the stakeholders in the rules proposal formulation meetings. It was about evenly divided. Concensus could not be reached so it was dropped".

At least 3 of their so called "stakeholders" are very much anti-crossbow.

So, the only recourse is that the NRC will recieve enough input that they will add full inclusion on. Long shot, but worth the effort


Give input today please..

[Cajun Executioner]

Thanks for the email address. Although I do not live in Indiana I did email them my opinion on the matter.

[quadkiller]

i stated the facts to mitch marcus at our meeting and he couldnt respond. he said they had many more emails against xbows than for. when i told him the percentages of their own survey, he got red in the face. 49.9% for xbows to only 34.5% against. i said, "this is your survey numbers, are those numbers not right"? he had nothing to say. then he said, "crossbows are more of a social issue". so i said, "if they were a "social issue" why are we, as a state, bending to the minority instead of majority". again no comment. their was no one at that meeting i talked to happy about the proposals. probably about 30 people from 2-4 pm. i did talk to chad ryan, a sports columinst for fort wayne news sentinal, he was tapping my conversation with mitch, witch i didn't know, but he wanted more facts to do an article. so i emailed him the xbow power point with all the facts plus the sources. i think i will he from him this week. i also spoke to mark reiter he too couldn't deny the facts, and he strongly suggested i come to public meeting this Jan. to present my case. if we continue to voice FACTS loudly, the anti's won't be able to hide behind their LIES any longer!! NOW IS THE TIME TO STAND UP HOOSIERS!

[Hoosier Hunter]

I attended the Sugar Ridge meeting.

I was there from about 2:30 until 6:45.

82 people signed in by the time I had left. I did not hear one person say that they supported the proposal. Yes, I worked the crowd pretty good and talked to a couple folks from Hunting Indian and Hoosier Hunting.

Chad looked very tired. I guess three or four meetings in as many days can beat a man down. He said the one at North Vernon was brutal. They really unloaded on him. I got my piece done and then let him alone.

Chad emphasized repeatedly that this was NOT a done deal. I defended Chad on that as Bryan Poynter had put out the “Open Letter to Deer Hunter” a few weeks back that basically said it wasn’t a done deal.

Chad tried to re-explain (has to be for the 10th hundred time) that the idea of the short seasons was to get the buck hunters that had been passing does waiting on a buck to take a doe sooner than they had been. IOW – he believes that every hunter out there has a time in mind when they will stop just buck hunting and start just deer hunting. Of course some are just deer hunter from opening light.Some will buck hunt and as soon as they get their buck, then they will doe hunt.

Several folks said that if this goes through that the new 9 days seasons will be buck only for them and the Dcemeber hunt wil be their doe season IF they go back out at all.

Lots of good information exchanged including less time to take kids hunting, getting off work with a limted time frame, the economic impact on mom and pop places that sell stuff to deer hunters.

One person said that lots of buttons would die with antlerless season and Chad did not deny that.

One hunter asked just how much sway the “stakeholders” had on these proposals and all he would say is “They were stakeholders”.

The biggest complaint was the season structure of shortening and moving the gun seasons and shortening the muzzleloader season. Chad said himself that he could not defend the shortening of the muzzleloader season.

I was standing next to the board and I finally asked a group of hunters if they would buy into a shortened season IF that 9 day season came in as it always had? IOW – still in a portion of the rut. Most said that would be better than the present proposal. Then Chad asked if the gun seasons came in the same time and was the same length, but the second week would be antlerless only would they buy in. Again, most said yes. I gave that suggestion a thumbs up.

Numerous folks complained that the bowhunters were making out like bandits on this exchange and said that if the gun and muzzleloader seasons were shortened that bowhunters should also pay a price.

I asked Chad "Can bowhunters take a buck in the two antlerless seasons" and he said," So far". Read what you want into that answer.

CROSSBOWS -

I also asked Chad since Ohio kills 91,000 archey deer a year why they did not allow crossbows and he said they could not get a consensus from the "stakeholders". IOW - The IDNR wanted to go full monty, but were blocked by anti-crossbows groups.

The president of the IDHA bragged and posted on another site - "If not for the stakeholders, you would have crossbow and a 9 day gun season in October."

The DNR wanted both and some of the stakeholders kept them from doing it. So much for "the professionals manageing the herd" and the stakeholders there to help reduce the herd.

Since they stated that decisions would be made at these meetings by a "consensus" thay might as well have said. " Stakeholders, give us YOUR plan and we will implement it". Poor.

I got the feeling that Chad has been pushed into a corner that he does not like.

Another hunter said," The DNR's proposal was EXACTLY what these groups have been pushing for years and you all wonder why we are suspicious of the outcome?"

Chad said that the NRC had received over 2,000 emails. Keep those cards and letters and emails coming folks.

No, quadkiller I do not believe for a minute that there are more emails being recieved against crossbows than for them.

I look for some changes to be made. How much? Who knows, but there is way too many hunters coming out against this for them to completely ignore it.

I doubt that we will see much more in the way of crossbows, but we do not give up until the last gavel is dropped.

[quadkiller]

just talked to chad on phone for about 30 min. your right woody. we aren't fighting the IDNR. they want full inclusion. SWEET! i can't see how we can't get this done. the select groups can't hide behind lies, we need to continue to bombard them with their own facts. if the state want this and majority of hunters want this WHAT'S THE DEAL?

[Hoosier Hunter]

quadkiller, on 23 August 2010 - 01:31 PM, said:

just talked to chad on phone for about 30 min. your right woody. we aren't fighting the IDNR. they want full inclusion. SWEET! i can't see how we can't get this done. the select groups can't hide behind lies, we need to continue to bombard them with their own facts. if the state want this and majority of hunters want this WHAT'S THE DEAL?

The DNR Fish and Wildlife screwed up -  IMHO.

1) They chose the wrong "stakeholders". A random sampling of Indiana deer hunters without any "club" affiliation would have been much better OR just go by their previous DNR Deer Hunter Surveys.

2) Being naive enough to not know that these groups had bulit in biases against crossbows.

3) Setting the wrong parameters on the decision making process. IOW - decide by consensus which gave these clubs veto power.

The NRC and the DNR are supposed to be working on these proposals but most, if not all, of that work is on the gun and muzzleloaders seasons.

I've bombarded the NRC and DNR with all kinds of crossbow materials. Hopefully they are not getting tired of it and are actually reading it AND will act in it.

They want to kill more deer and Ohio crossbowers killed 49,000+ deer last year.

[Hoosier Hunter]

The DNR, NRC and NRC AC has said some changes top the deer proposals are forthcoming.

Not sure what yet or if they will include any more expansion of the crossbows seasosn.

Keep it up..

[Hoosier Hunter]

Give input at..

http://www.in.gov/nrc/2377.htm

[Hoosier Hunter]

They are still taking input at...

http://www.in.gov/nrc/2377.htm

[quadkiller]

i have talked to chad stewert, IN deer biologist, and he said these proposals have been scraped. the IDNR and NRC have a meeting dec. 2 for other possible rule changes.  

[Saxon Pope]

I gave up on IDNR when they raised non-resident deer tags to $150.00 and they are still weapon specific.

[Tim50]

quadkiller, on 29 November 2010 - 05:57 PM, said:

i have talked to chad stewert, IN deer biologist, and he said these proposals have been scraped. the IDNR and NRC have a meeting dec. 2 for other possible rule changes.  

Keep up the good work guys! Facts will eventually win out over misinformation, lies & emotional retoric! The facts & data are on our side!