96 replies to this topic

[recurveman]

Do I need 600 fps?  Would I buy it?  Probably.  Problem lies in how you achieve the velocity.  If its done by putting 225# limbs on an RDT165.  That would not neccesarily be a good thing.  if you did it by narrowing and lengthening the 165 to say 24" LOP then it would be even more accurate as the bolt will become more stable.  

However, 425br bolt going 500fps...I am in where is the order form.  Even if all I do is mess around seeing how far out I can strike a McKenzie target out to...I would buy one.  Hmm....Mildot scope and 200 yard crossbow....cool.

[sits in trees]

Sagittarius, on 24 August 2010 - 10:54 AM, said:

Guys,

Who cares what the anti-hunters think ?
I don't give a single damn and never have.  
They would like to ban hunting, no matter what the speeds are !
Gearhead could probably design a crossbow with a 30" power stroke with the way their pully system and rollers work.
Their bow is kind of a reverse of the reversed.  
As far as price, there's no way in hell to sell a bow for 3 to 4 hundred bucks and keep the doors open.
It would have to be made of crap materials !
Come on, get real on that !
Stewart Bowman built and sold his custom Accu-Riser compound bows for $1,200.00 and only made a $200.00 profit per bow.
Some guys would not believe that but that's what he told me and I believe it.
He had to pay a hell of a lot of money for each 73 pound block of aluminum used to build one ,plus all his other expenses.
He stopped building them because they got too expensive to make.
The higher quality a product is, the less profit there is in general.

it's not the anti hunters they are referring, it's the vertical bow hunters who don't want crossbows in "THEIR" season. i'm in NY and 600 fps crossbows will be used against us by our so called fellow hunters in our attempt at full inclusion, right know they are using the PSE Tach-15 against us with much success, all they have to do is pull a pic of a PSE Tach bow out in front of our state legislators and bingo they win the argument for not allowing crossbows in bow season here in NY.

[donh57]

Personally, I wouldn't want a 600 fps xbow.  The next bow I buy may be a tac 10i at 350 fps. The tac15i is the same price, but I don't want 400 fps.  I had a Stryker and the problems weren't worth it to me.  If I found a target I  wouldn't shoot through, after a little time  I was getting pass throughs.  Servings didn't last long.  Arrows got lost or broken.  I enjoy seeing the arrows fly and it was hard to do at 407 fps.  At 600 fps, think how those things would be magnified.
That being said, if a guy down the road gets one, I hope he lets me shoot it a few times.

[MikeH]

Sometimes, ya just gotta push the limit in order to establish a new limit.

As for the "anti's": Considering so many states are hurting because of the economy, I don't think they would be too easily willing to do a 180, cutting off a new or increased revenue source, just to satisfy a few whiners. And you have to figure; x-bow hunting acceptance among some of the states is in it's infancy. Political battles and nay sayers are to be expected... and overcome. Like many things, if it's worth having, it's worth fighting for.

Personally, I'd like to witness this thing being used, in a testing capacity, on a variety of targets and at varying distances. I'd probably like to send a few sticks down range with it, just for grins and giggles. If it were going to be produced, in quantity, for sale, I probably wouldn't rush out to buy one since it would most likely be very cost prohibitive. But, I wouldn't base any decision for or against it's existence by little more than what I think others might think. After all, it's not like we are criminals for being x-bow aficionados. (WOW!!! Yesterday I couldn't spell it and today I are one   )

MikeH.

[sits in trees]

MikeH, on 02 September 2010 - 01:31 AM, said:

Sometimes, ya just gotta push the limit in order to establish a new limit.

As for the "anti's": Considering so many states are hurting because of the economy, I don't think they would be too easily willing to do a 180, cutting off a new or increased revenue source, just to satisfy a few whiners. And you have to figure; x-bow hunting acceptance among some of the states is in it's infancy. Political battles and nay sayers are to be expected... and overcome. Like many things, if it's worth having, it's worth fighting for.

Personally, I'd like to witness this thing being used, in a testing capacity, on a variety of targets and at varying distances. I'd probably like to send a few sticks down range with it, just for grins and giggles. If it were going to be produced, in quantity, for sale, I probably wouldn't rush out to buy one since it would most likely be very cost prohibitive. But, I wouldn't base any decision for or against it's existence by little more than what I think others might think. After all, it's not like we are criminals for being x-bow aficionados. (WOW!!! Yesterday I couldn't spell it and today I are one   )

MikeH.

yea but we're in a state thats still trying to get full inclusion and are getting beat over the head with the Tach/pse bows by the vert bow guy's  and it's not helping, a 600 fps bows will no doubt just hurt our cause here in NY even more. understand that when you show a lawmaker who doesnt hunt or knows nothing about archery a picture of a black crossbow with a tactical stock and 3x9 scope on it what the reaction is going to be. and as far as a state needing the money, no state needs it more than NY and we still don't have full inclusion. and besides whats a 600 fps bow going to kill that a 350fps bow won't. and i would ask anyone who has one of these 500/600 bows to post a video to show us how exactly a 600 fps bow shoots say a 400 grain arrow at 100 yds or are we all just debating a pipe dream here???

[Big-Bird-VA]

Everything we do is under the microscope. Look around how the anti's have zeroed in on the TAC15. It's now the official example of what all xbows do and what all xbow hunters are using. According to them there's a TAC behind every tree. As we're aware truth and fact have little to do with things. Hype and keeping an agenda alive is all they want. 600 fps, even 500 would do that job above and beyond what we're seeing right now. I think 600 fps would be great but it's not going to do anything for our image.

I also think at some point fps will make archery hunting no longer archery hunting . Not sure 600 is the number but it's close. I also don't think equipment is ready for it either. Just a few more fps in the RDT165 over the Stryker 405 makes a huge problem in flight and accuracy. What would even 500 fps require?

[OLDFLYER]

A 500 grain arrow shot at 600FPS would produce 400 foot pounds of energy. The only time you would need that is if your deer was standing behind a 3 foot thick oak tree!

[Big-Bird-VA]

OLDFLYER, on 02 September 2010 - 09:06 AM, said:

A 500 grain arrow shot at 600FPS would produce 400 foot pounds of energy. The only time you would need that is if your deer was standing behind a 3 foot thick oak tree!

I think you're going to need a broadhead made by DeWalt to shoot through it. Oh some more offset in the fletch for more spin too.

[Guide Girl]

sits in trees, on 02 September 2010 - 04:28 AM, said:

yea but we're in a state thats still trying to get full inclusion and are getting beat over the head with the Tach/pse bows by the vert bow guy's  and it's not helping, a 600 fps bows will no doubt just hurt our cause here in NY even more. understand that when you show a lawmaker who doesnt hunt or knows nothing about archery a picture of a black crossbow with a tactical stock and 3x9 scope on it what the reaction is going to be. and as far as a state needing the money, no state needs it more than NY and we still don't have full inclusion. and besides whats a 600 fps bow going to kill that a 350fps bow won't. and i would ask anyone who has one of these 500/600 bows to post a video to show us how exactly a 600 fps bow shoots say a 400 grain arrow at 100 yds or are we all just debating a pipe dream here???

FYI,
In every state that goes for inclusion, that Tac-15 is the only thing in thier arsenal to stop or attempt to stop inclusion, but I;m here to tell you, it doesn't necessarily work when you counter with real facts over the main line product. If I would be able to have said anything when I wanted ( my blood was boiling) I would have asked the opposition to produce a long list of crossbow hunters who use that thing. Yea, I don't feel PSE did this inclusion process any favors at all, and I will never support that companies crossbow line or politics over it either. Left a real bad taste in my mouth. But, you know what? It passed here anyway, as well as other states. So it didn't hurt so much afterall and they ( vertical clubs) should have never totally depended on that Tac-15 to to make thier point, but what else that was truthful did they have? Nothing. They all shared that same tactic and it failed in all the other states up for inclusion. Keep your chin up in New York. Everything is possible if you work at it enough and be honest. Good Luck!

[butzbach]

ncstan, on 24 August 2010 - 10:37 PM, said:

I quess I didn't make myself clear so I will try to explain what kind of anti I was talking about.You all know the battle we just faced in N.C. to get crossbow inclusion for all hunters in N.C.It was not peta or any other animal rights group that fought inclusion but a small minority of hunters.Back in the sixties my favorite hunting was fox with a mouth blown predator call.Again a small group of hunters managed to elimnate virtually all gun hunting of foxes in N.C.When compounds came on the market a small group of hunters tried to prevent their use.This year We lost another county being able to run deer with dogs.I know I am preaching to the choir on the use of crossbows here.The anti crossbow will be anti crossbow no matter what the speed is.I also know that if there is a anti crossbower reading this board My statements about all hunters being united will fall on deaf ears.Stan

This is all true. Bow hunters are against crossbows nationally. They claim it will push the deer blah, blah, blah. What they really mean to say is, we are encroaching on what used to be a fairly small group of hunters that had the rut all to themselves. It's all about keeping what they have and not sharing and I'll be honest, I act the same way. (LOL) In the end though, we have to all come together and support hunting. Period. Fighting amongst ourselves serves only the liberals.

[butzbach]

Big-Bird-VA, on 02 September 2010 - 08:32 AM, said:

Everything we do is under the microscope. Look around how the anti's have zeroed in on the TAC15. It's now the official example of what all xbows do and what all xbow hunters are using. According to them there's a TAC behind every tree. As we're aware truth and fact have little to do with things. Hype and keeping an agenda alive is all they want. 600 fps, even 500 would do that job above and beyond what we're seeing right now. I think 600 fps would be great but it's not going to do anything for our image.

I also think at some point fps will make archery hunting no longer archery hunting . Not sure 600 is the number but it's close. I also don't think equipment is ready for it either. Just a few more fps in the RDT165 over the Stryker 405 makes a huge problem in flight and accuracy. What would even 500 fps require?

That CB is worthless as a real hunting CB. I'm sure PSE was trying to market it to those out there that are into the black gun craze. No self respecting hunter OR crossbower would have one.

In regards to speed...why? I shoot an Excalibur Exocet. I guess it's about 330-350 fps. All you need. Period.

[SPECIALIZED]

butzbach, on 10 September 2010 - 09:26 AM, said:

That CB is worthless as a real hunting CB. I'm sure PSE was trying to market it to those out there that are into the black gun craze. No self respecting hunter OR crossbower would have one.

In regards to speed...why? I shoot an Excalibur Exocet. I guess it's about 330-350 fps. All you need. Period.

butzbach,I do not own the PSE of witch you speak, and will not be buying one, but if I wanted one for what ever purpose That would have nothing to do with giving up my self respect.
And I am sure the many owners of a pse have not relinquished there self respect.
One should be very careful about calling a persons self respect in to question.

[butzbach]

Big-Bird-VA, on 02 September 2010 - 08:32 AM, said:

Everything we do is under the microscope. Look around how the anti's have zeroed in on the TAC15. It's now the official example of what all xbows do and what all xbow hunters are using. According to them there's a TAC behind every tree. As we're aware truth and fact have little to do with things. Hype and keeping an agenda alive is all they want. 600 fps, even 500 would do that job above and beyond what we're seeing right now. I think 600 fps would be great but it's not going to do anything for our image.

I also think at some point fps will make archery hunting no longer archery hunting . Not sure 600 is the number but it's close. I also don't think equipment is ready for it either. Just a few more fps in the RDT165 over the Stryker 405 makes a huge problem in flight and accuracy. What would even 500 fps require?

That CB is worthless as a real hunting CB. I'm sure PSE was trying to market it to those out there that are into the black gun craze. No self respecting hunter OR crossbower would have one.

In regards to speed...why? I shoot an Excalibur Exocet. I guess it's about 330-350 fps. All you need. Period.

Lastly, the whole argument isn't about what we hunt with but our places in the woods. Xbows put more hunters in the woods thus more pressure on those trying to get the "trophy". It's just that simple. Bow hunters for years have had the woods to themselves to include the rut. Now they have to deal with Xbow hunters competing for the same deer.

[edge]

butzbach, on 10 September 2010 - 09:47 AM, said:

That CB is worthless as a real hunting CB. I'm sure PSE was trying to market it to those out there that are into the black gun craze. No self respecting hunter OR crossbower would have one.

In regards to speed...why? I shoot an Excalibur Exocet. I guess it's about 330-350 fps. All you need. Period.

Lastly, the whole argument isn't about what we hunt with but our places in the woods. Xbows put more hunters in the woods thus more pressure on those trying to get the "trophy". It's just that simple. Bow hunters for years have had the woods to themselves to include the rut. Now they have to deal with Xbow hunters competing for the same deer.

Man, I guess that CB hunters are just as bigoted as traditional hunters

Somebody wants a faster bow and you put them down!

Why the heck do you need 330-350 fps?
What are you a deer thief?

Someone is going to say "200 fps is all you need!

I find it amazing that hunters can be just like the Anti Hunters when it comes to someone having something that they don't use! 10 years from now, when everyone is using 600 fps CB's these same folks will be complaining about the newfangled bows shooting 1000 fps...and on and on and on........

edge.

[Buck Buster]

buckeye dan, on 24 August 2010 - 01:25 AM, said:

I find it difficult to believe accuracy can be maintained for an arrow traveling 600fps. The problem is the flexing and torque on the arrow material. The second it leaves the rail it would flex under the extreme acceleration. The initial flex isn't much of a concern as it's bounce back when the arrow straightens itself. The more you flex an arrow the less predictable it becomes when it snaps straight again. You start to test the manufacturing and material process after a certain point.

The only way I see to overcome this is to get medieval. A specially made reinforced arrow or a bolt. Either way you slice it the separation will be called a bolt. If you revert crossbows to launching special arrows that will be called bolts or will actually be bolts...Well we all know how that turns out. The added weight of these new bolts will throw the KE off the charts too.

Do we really need 600fps bows while the 400 fps bows sound like a hammer and cost more than a custom rifle? The technology we have is fine for now. So lets make one that is silent and affordable with what we already have. When crossbows start costing about $1 per fps with no noise then we can look at the next level of technology. By then everyone will have one and be more receptive to the extremes.

Amen!

[Moon]

Buy  what you think  you need/want for crossbow hunting and have at it but don't let those that disagree with your choice get to you.................because they will

Nobody has convince me  that I NEED a 400+ fps crossbow to kill a deer at ranges out to 50 yards and I would not shoot an arrow at a deer farther than that if it was traveling at 500 fps. BTW, I owned, shot  and hunted with 2 crossbows that shot  over 400 fps. I sold them. The mentaility is "if 350 fps is better than 300 fps then surely 400 to 500 must be better". Yeah, right. Diminishing returns become a factor and  I personally  think that point is around 350 fps. 330 to 340 is the sweet spot for me. A 425 fps crossbow won't shoot  more accurately than my 340 fps crossbow and it will weigh between 4 and 5 lbs more than my 340 fps crossbow. That's the deciding factor for me but I don't belittle folks for owning one and  as I said, have at it.

[Dean]

What crossbow is your 340 fps and with what weight arrow?

[Raleigh Archer]

Moon, on 10 September 2010 - 03:07 PM, said:

Buy  what you think  you need/want for crossbow hunting and have at it but don't let those that disagree with your choice get to you.................because they will

You've got to be kidding me.

Quote

Nobody has convince me  that I NEED a 400+ fps crossbow to kill a deer at ranges out to 50 yards

Please provide proof that people are trying. I haven't seen anyone EVER saying this.  Nobody is telling you that you need anything other than what YOU are happy with.  However, you seem to have made it your mission to criticize not only the fast bows, but those who enjoy them.

Quote

but I don't belittle folks for owning one and  as I said, have at it.

Again, you've got to be kidding me.  Suggesting that speed bow owners are in it for bragging rights, pee themselves, aren't serious hunters, and on and on and on is not belittling folks who own Scorpyds and TAC15s?

I'll be happy to quote you if your memory needs refreshing.

[OLDFLYER]

Too much childlesness. This forum is turning into another Archery Talk!

[BigBowMan]

I hope UL doesn't allow that to happen Oldflyer! Nobody wants to see 2 men in a peeing contest!