j3cub

There has been a lot of comments concerning where is the WCF on AB 384, the wolf bill and other areas.  I tend not to respond to xranger or any other name he used, because I don't believe it is productive.

The wolf bill is not the big issue for us nor is archery equipment use during the gun season. We believe the WBH are getting too greedy, and while we can understand a person, who owns his own land, might, with some justification, wonder why he can't hunt  with a bow on his land during the gun season, this is still a side issue.

There are two basic seasons, gun and archery.  For reasons of safety we don't believe the two should be mixed. We only care when the Grater or Lesser concept us used by the WBH to force crossbows into the gun season. In other words: The greater or lesser weapons concept is the threat. While not stated as such AB-384 is a greater or lesser weapons bill as written and should be changed by amendment or just not passed.  Some who support more crossbow opportunity are supporting AB-384 as a step forward.  There is some logic in believing this, but it also is a step backwards, since crossbows would be banned from archery seasons, with the exceptions the approved handicapped archers. So, the WBH basically is not given up an inch in compromise since it has always been their policy that they are not against a crossbow season, just not during the archey season.  The WBH have worked against crossbow small game seasons only because if more people purchase crossbows they will soon be asking why they can't use them in the archery season. The Wisconsin legislators will not gain anything by passing AB-384 unmodified, because nothing will basically change. Next year the legislators will again be faced with growing numbers of Wisconsin hunters asking the same question they are asking today: "when crossbows will be allowed in the archery season?" The problem is not going away for the WBH elite who thought they can get legislation passed by going in through the back door and appealing to the legislators directly when the WBH lost confidence and vote in the Conservation Congress on the age 55 issue, and in the bear and turkey committe.   The problem for the WBH is that more and more hunters want the right to choice what archey equipment they use with out someone telling them can't.  Rembember, RC and others often said, that they had the votes, that's why crossbow resolutions were not passsing throught the Conservation Congress.  Well, now we have the votes in the CC and DNR's Spring Hearing results  for the reduction of the age from 65 to 55.
Losing the public opnion battle, WBH hires a lobbist to find a legislator to pass a bill to their liking.  They found one, Gary Tauchen, (R-6) who has drafted basically what they wanted.  I don't think it will work, because the bill can be amended making it basically a pro-crossbow bill, but even if passed as is, we are not going away and next year we will be pushing for repeal and supporting a new pro-crossbow bill.  If that doesn't work, we will be back the year after, and the year after that until we have full inclusion of crossbows into the archery season.  RC knows this, and I don't think he is a very happy guy.  So guys, give him a break, if you see him buy him a beer.  Say some nice words to him and just don't be so hard on him. RC's future is like the "traditional" archer supporters who lost the fight against compound bows in the early 1970s...they just seemed to have melted away.

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I don't know if you are a member of the American Crossbow Federation. They publish the Horizontal Bowhunter, P.O. Box 251, 20 NE 9th Avenue, Glenwood, Minnesota 56334. Your contact there is Daniel James Hendricks. 320 634 3660.  The magazine is published four times per year and is packed with good information and contacts.  Laura is just wonderful and full of energy.  

If Laura is an example it is because she is so full of energy.  I don't know if there is any great secret in getting pro-crossbow message out to legislators.  It takes a willingness to learn the issues, get on message, and write and talk to legislators.  It helps if you can convince others to join you in this effort or join a state crossbow association since no one can to it all by themselves. The more people working with you, the more fun this process becomes.

In answer to Schneep's question, "where is the WCF", don't worry we are still out here. Sometime ago, I decided it was a waste of time debating rancid crabtree, so I have not been on this site much.  I find it sad that someone would spend so much time and effort trying to make life difficult for others.

Anyway, as many of you know, Gary Tauchen's LRB-1883/4 - Weapons used for Hunting is now SB 384, with ten co-Sponsors, nine Representatives and two Senators. There will be a hearing on this tomorrow in Greenbay.    

One can see a full copy of the bill by looking up the following site:  https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/proposals/ab384

Read the bill carefully.  You will find that, yes, there will be opportunity to use crossbows, but only during seasons where guns are allowed.

Here is the important section and definitions:

Section 1. 29.001 (17) of the statutes is created to read:
  29.001 (17) "Bow," when used with reference to hunting, means a bow, drawn
and held by and through the effort of the person releasing it, but does not include a
crossbow.
Section 2. 29.001 (19m) of the statutes is created to read:
29.001 (19m) "Crossbow" means any device using a bow that, once drawn, is
held solely by means other than the effort of the person firing it.
Section 3. 29.014 (1m) of the statutes is created to read:
29.014 (1m) (a) If the department establishes an open season for hunting deer,
elk, small game, wild turkey, or bear with a firearm, the season shall also be open for
hunting that animal with a crossbow and a bow and arrow.
( If the department establishes an open season for hunting deer, elk, small
game, wild turkey, or bear with a bow and arrow but not with a firearm, the
department may not open that season for hunting with a crossbow except by a person
who has attained the age of 65 or by a person who is authorized to hunt with a
crossbow by a permit issued under s. 29.171 (4) (a) or 29.193 (2).

Clearly Rep. Tauchen wrote a bill to satisfy the Wisconsin Bowhunters, and while it does not say “Greater or Lesser Weapons bill that is what it is!

THIS IS A BAD BILL AS WRITTEN. BUT, and I say a big but, we can change the bill if the Wisconsin community of crossbow supporters gets out there and contacts their legislators to ask them to amend the bill to remove the greater or lesser wording, and to correct the definition of crossbow to define it as archery equipment.  This would seem very logical to most of our readers on this site, but you need to tell your Representative, Senators and their staffers that if compound bows are legal for archery season, you want crossbows to be legal too.  


A quick personal note:

Because of the jobs situation in Wisconsin, I had to move and now make my home in Minnesota. For much of the summer I was completely restoring my home here and feel very badly that I could not do more in Madison to promote our cause.  I will continue to support the pro-crossbow cause in Wisconsin.

I made up mind to support crossbow use mostly because of the hostility directed at me and others who those support “choice” even if that choice is to use a crossbows. This vindictiveness by a VOCAL FEW in the Wisconsin Bowhunters Association was unfair and uncalled for.  If you are reading this, and you are a member of the Wisconsin Bowhunters, you should seriously consider electing a new board of directors who will not take your fine organization down the road of conflict with other hunters.  The crossbow community has no fight with 'traditional' bow hunters, or even WBH members in general.  It is only the few demigods in your organization whose hubris in thinking they represent the feeling and wishes of all WBH members and then use the good name of the Wisconsin Bowhunters Association when they attack other hunters.

Unfortunately, pro-crossbow supporters have their own problems.  We have been able to collect thousands of signatures at outdoor shows of people who support crossbows, yet when I talk to legislators and ask how many emails and letters they have received in support of more favorable crossbow legislation the numbers are very disappointing. Last year, I  talked to the head of the New York State's DNR about this apparent lack of effort to support legislation which one wishes to see passed and was told there is actually a psychological term for this.  Unfortunately I do not remember the term, but it had something to do with a persons inability to get psychologically committed to a abstract future want v. being committed to protect something you already have. That's why the WBH( leadership?) can turn out its members to block a crossbow resolution during Spring Hearings, and Conservation Congress commette hearings. All their leaders have to do is say that crossbows will destroy their season. No proof needed, just create the fear.

What I am saying here is, don't depend on the Wisconsin Crossbow Federation, or me or my board or our members to win this fight for you.  We are doing the best we can with what we have, but if this battle is going to be won you will have to be committed...and I don't mean spending your time debating rancid crabtree.  He is a fool.  He will never change is mind, don't waste your time with him.  Instead write a letter to your representative; then write your senator! Tomorrow write all the co-sponsors of this bad bill and tell them why you wanted changed. AND don’t forget the Governor!  If you live near Madison, drive in and talk to your legislators.  While you are there call on the sponsors of this bill and anyone else you think will listen to you.

Now can you relax? No way, write some more letters, get your buddies, family and friends to support crossbows. Form crossbow clubs and join the American Crossbow Federation and the Wisconsin Crossbow Federation.  Network with a purpose to win this fight. Remember legislators are interested in one thing over all others, getting reelected. If they think there is a large electorate who would be unhappy with their vote if they vote for the WBH's greater or lesser bill, they will not vote for it and they will vote with us.  Do nothing and nothing good happens!

Alright enough venting.  If you want to get involved give me a call.  262 893 2700 or send me an email: wisconsincrossbow@gmail.com

John

I am not surprised that RC reported this survey.  As many may recall,  when this survey was first announced on the archery blogs there was quite a few comments suggesting WBH members should get on the site...using the code word provided...and vote.  Mailings to persons who were selected to take the survey required that the person selected had to use their own customer number to prevent scamming the survey. If more than one use of a customer number was found that entry was eliminated.  Just knowing the code was not enough for the answers to the survey to be counted.  Brian, who wrote the survey did this so just this type of activity could be spotted and prevented.  Quite a few people who should not have voted tried to do so...at a rate of three to one against crossbows.

I might add this is not the only way the survey can be scammed as those apposed to crossbows could reach survey responders in other ways and scam the results in other way which can not be detected.

The reason this survey question was done, in the way it was done was because there was not enough funding to do better survey like those done by NJ, NY and Georgia.  Better surveys also asked questions to determine why, and to what degree those surveyed held their views. In Wisconsin for example many gun hunters are upset with the influence of the WBH efforts to get larger and larger share of the big game hunting season, which is now about one hundred days.  WBH, who are pushing a concept of "Greater or Lessor Weapon" want to push crossbows into the gun season while allowing vertical bows hunters to hunt in all big game seasons.  Naturally gun hunters are worried about this, and would naturally respond to a single level survey negatively if they were worried that their season would be eroded even more by the archers.  

The Wisconsin Crossbow Federation had expressed concerns about the survey methods used by the agency...not Brian's fault...because we were aware that a poor survey would  be use against us by the likes of RC.

Quite frankly it is disturbing to see the tactics used RC and the WBH in order to get what they want.  When we go to Madison to talk to legislators we always make it quite clear who represents both side of the debate.  But the WBH use subterfuge.  For example when we spoke with Representative Gary Kauchen, (R-6) who is in the process of drafting a Greater or lessor weapon season bill, he seemed very surprised to find out anyone was against his crossbow bill.  In other words, the Wisconsin Bowhunters or their lobbyist, Ron Kuehn of DeWitt Ross & Stevens had been telling the Representative that people who supported crossbows were for this concept.  No doubt the WBH wanted the legislators to get this bill passed before the Pro-crossbow forces had any idea what is up.  If you live in the six district represented by Gary Kauchen you might want to write him and let him know crossbow supporters don't want to get pushed into the gun season and that the WBH do NOT REPRESENT US!  His address is:  Representative Gary Tauchen P.O. Box 8953 Madison, WI 53708 Actually anyone who wants crossbows choice in Wisconsin  should write.