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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Today, my shots were limited but noteworthy at 11 shots since 100 yards has been in play this summer. I found an area that I ranged in at 100 yards to the specs of my BearX IntenseCD/Hawke XB-1 speed scope and Barnett TS370/Sig Sauer Red Dot Romeo5/HHA Optimizer. Shot same arrows. One other notable difference. I manually rope cocked my TS370 and I used the Carbon Express CCD and BearX rope sled. Yea, that target looks far because it is. :p
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Round 1:
Barnett TS370,
Marty's strings
BloodSport Witness, 4 Arrows/2.88" Vanetech vanes 425 grain +/- 2 grains
Manually cocked
Sig Sauer Romeo5 single Red Dot 2moa/HHA Optimizer, no magnification
Elevation is on point in my opinion. I was a little anxious first round. :p

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Round 2:
Barnett TS370,
Marty's strings
BloodSport Witness, 5 Arrows/3.15" Vanetech vanes 425 grain +/- 2 grains (Note: I felt I pulled the arrow far right and it did)
Manually cocked
Sig Sauer Romeo5 single Red Dot 2moa/HHA Optimizer, no magnification
Elevation is on point in my opinion.


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Overall satisfied with just 9 shots.

Round 3:
BearX IntenseCD
Marty's strings
BloodSport Witness, 2 Arrows/3.15" Vanetech vanes 425 grain +/- 2 grains
Carbon Express CCD with BearX rope sled
Speed Scope: Hawke XB-1 previously tested as accurate out to 70 yards
First Shot: I missed the target short shooting at the center of the target. Yikes!
Second Shot: raised POI to the top bullseye.
Hawke XB-1 Consclusions:
I stopped shooting after the second shot. :eek: This scope does not hold elevation accurately past 70 yards jumping to 100 yard shooting. I measured the elevation drop and it's 13" off at 100 yards. Yikes!!!! Something is not right going from 70 to 100 yards with the Hawke reticles. 20 -70 yards it's legit! Now I have not shot at 80 or 90 yards so can't I comment on those distances.

Note: Windage is perfect and I suspect that has to do with the Carbon Express CCD and the BearX rope sled. Also, Scope FOV shows the bullseye very well. Back to my red dot and 100 yard shooting. I can improve but it ain't easy folks but fun as H.E. double hockey sticks! ;) To be continued. Amazing how long it takes to hear the arrow hit the target.



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Here is same Hawke XB-1 BearX Intense setup at 70 yards.

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Discussion Starter #2
All shots taken off my primos tripod shooting stick.
 
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Nice write up Tom. You are now experiencing what I have seen. IF you were to slow down the speed ring to bring up the 100, you then are 6" high at 20. I dialed speed ring in at 100 to be near 1" off BE. Then back to 20 @ 6" high.
What I found is that there is to many variables for these scopes to meet all conditions. The only way I see this technology being "Perfect" is being able to dial each 10 yard increment independently or use the math as HHA has done well at.
FD
 

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One last item. The only scope I found to be accurate throughout the ranges is the Sightmark Core SX. It however is 20-60. BUT, it does match yard to yard.
FD
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Farm Deer, great comments. Yea, my current thoughts, speed scopes and 100 yards meeting all the reticle requirements once adjusted, I'm not biting that apple. 70 yards yes, 100 yards no. You will have to adjust like you stated.

If I was serious to shoot 100 yards, I'd get a 3-9x32 bug buster single reticle CH scope and put it on a HHA or a Ravin Jackplate. However, I'm not. I enjoyed the 100 yard shooting. I'll revisit it but not mandatory. I did buy the biggest damn target Academy had yesterday to help this guy out. ;)
 
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One last item. The only scope I found to be accurate throughout the ranges is the Sightmark Core SX. It however is 20-60. BUT, it does match yard to yard.
FD
I can say the same at those distances with my Hawke XB-1. It's legit and on on the money 20-70 yards but no way hose' at 100 yards. :p Gotta say the Carbon Express does tighten up the windage with the equal pull. I think the BearX Sled helps too.
 
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When I figure out where I will attempt 100 with bugbuster. No hha, just Mildots. Tom could you please send me some of your new witness for this experiment? 😇
 

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Tom,
I did find that a speed dial setting of 365 provided 20-60 spot on. Past 60 I went to 360 and it hit spot on. So as previously stated, these dial scopes are not proportional to drop. I checked with five different flavor of arrows and experienced the same. Maybe this is why Sightmark only goes out to 60!!!!!! Is it that difficult to etch the glass to match the drop at rated speed? They need to fix this for it isn't working as advertised.

Hawke rep, are you out there?
FD
 

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Discussion Starter #10
When I figure out where I will attempt 100 with bugbuster. No hha, just Mildots. Tom could you please send me some of your new witness for this experiment? 😇
Well, I do have a stock pile now after fletching 15 of them. (y) Also, I found 11 Zombie Slayers to be fletched or cut down.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Tom,
I did find that a speed dial setting of 365 provided 20-60 spot on. Past 60 I went to 360 and it hit spot on. So as previously stated, these dial scopes are not proportional to drop. I checked with five different flavor of arrows and experienced the same. Maybe this is why Sightmark only goes out to 60!!!!!! Is it that difficult to etch the glass to match the drop at rated speed? They need to fix this for it isn't working as advertised.

Hawke rep, are you out there?
FD
Well you have shot 100 yards more then anyone I know and in my limited experience the Hawke XB-1 is not accurate at 100 yards elevation. Not a dig, it's still a great scope. I'm keeping it and like it on my BearX IntenseCD.

My Excalibur Dead Zone speed scopes are spot on 20-60 similarly to your comments.

I don't know where they come up with 20-100 specs. Would that apply to a certain grain weight arrow? Just throwing that out there as a wild guess.

Still fun as all get out shooting that far.
 

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One test you could do on the hawke scope. Draw a one inch black dot on a A4 paper and place that 100y away. The with the scope on the bow or just with the scope resting on something flat and solid. Get the cross hair lined up with the black dot. Without moving the bow or scope move your head around up down left right just to the point where you start to giving up the sight picture. See how much the cross hair moves away from the dot while doing this.

Without having adjustable objective. I think parallax error can be playing it's part at long distances like 100Y particularly if the scope is fixed at 30 or 50 yards.

Nice shoot at 100y with the red dot! I'm starting to think for hunting at 20- 60 yards a red dot could be the most reliable device for a crossbow without introducing complexity of optics that could result in errors particularly in the budget range of scopes.
 

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Did I... miss reading the speed of those bows and arrows?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Barnet TS370 with 425 grain arrows, 368fps
BearX IntenseCD with 425 grain arrows, 377fps
 

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Discussion Starter #16
One test you could do on the hawke scope. Draw a one inch black dot on a A4 paper and place that 100y away. The with the scope on the bow or just with the scope resting on something flat and solid. Get the cross hair lined up with the black dot. Without moving the bow or scope move your head around up down left right just to the point where you start to giving up the sight picture. See how much the cross hair moves away from the dot while doing this.

Without having adjustable objective. I think parallax error can be playing it's part at long distances like 100Y particularly if the scope is fixed at 30 or 50 yards.

Nice shoot at 100y with the red dot! I'm starting to think for hunting at 20- 60 yards a red dot could be the most reliable device for a crossbow without introducing complexity of optics that could result in errors particularly in the budget range of scopes.
This is personal preference. I'm all about the red dot. Instant eye relief espeically for the 20-30 yard shot. One dot, one shot. Less complicated. Last Labor Day DIY hunt in Colorado had the time to turn the dial to 52 yards placed Xbow on my shooting stick. Squeezed the trigger, pronghorn went 30ish yards, did a 360° down he went. No confusing multiple reticles. You can do the same with a single CH scope on the HHA and get real accurate but I'm weight sensitive. My Barnett setup is 7.6lbs with HHA and Red Dot.
 

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One test you could do on the hawke scope. Draw a one inch black dot on a A4 paper and place that 100y away. The with the scope on the bow or just with the scope resting on something flat and solid. Get the cross hair lined up with the black dot. Without moving the bow or scope move your head around up down left right just to the point where you start to giving up the sight picture. See how much the cross hair moves away from the dot while doing this.

Without having adjustable objective. I think parallax error can be playing it's part at long distances like 100Y particularly if the scope is fixed at 30 or 50 yards.

Nice shoot at 100y with the red dot! I'm starting to think for hunting at 20- 60 yards a red dot could be the most reliable device for a crossbow without introducing complexity of optics that could result in errors particularly in the budget range of scopes.
I followed your recommendation to find at rated FPS on the speed dial that match 20-50 spot on, I only see 2" parallax @100 yards. This is prior to crescent appearing both up and down.
What I did is charted out the drop of the 400 gr. arrow at 360 fps. Looking through the scope at rated fps, the 70-100 cross hairs are proportionally the same space apart rather following a proportional spacing relative to drop. Meaning, 60 to 70 is less than 70 to 80 and so on. The further cross hair should be further apart the farther the yardage, but it's not.
So, I did shoot to 100 and achieved a BE. However, going back to 20 , not changing anything, shot 8" high out to 50 then began to drop on POI as I went out in yardage.
I'm sure Tom found the same that IF you increase the speed of the ring to make the 20 spot on then you will be 16-18" low at 100. Use the turrets to bring 100 back, you now just moved 20 8" high again. Tail chasing the dog!!!!
I believe the incremental spacing of the cross hairs are not calibrated correctly for some unknown reason. The further the distance, the further the cross hairs at a longer yardage. They are not after 60. 70 is close but low on POI then gets progressively worse.

I was ready to buy a Hawke XB1 until I read Tom's posting. He experienced similar findings. What say you Tom???
FD
 

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This is personal preference. I'm all about the red dot. Instant eye relief espeically for the 20-30 yard shot. One dot, one shot. Less complicated. Last Labor Day DIY hunt in Colorado had the time to turn the dial to 52 yards placed Xbow on my shooting stick. Squeezed the trigger, pronghorn went 30ish yards, did a 360° down he went. No confusing multiple reticles. You can do the same with a single CH scope on the HHA and get real accurate but I'm weight sensitive. My Barnett setup is 7.6lbs with HHA and Red Dot.
I don't disagree Tom, red dot or other options are best for hunting. However, it was great testing to prove I wasn't going insane and that you experienced the same issue. Hunting aside, the manufactures need to fix this.
FD
 

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Would they have to make scopes with xbow speed specific spacing. Ts 370 shooting 370 fps, vapor shooting 470. Or would spacing stay true from original sight in? This sounds like it is out of my math skills.
 

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Excellent shooting at 100 with Red Dot. I don't think it could be tighter since red dot has no magnification to "aim small". As far as the XB1 bottoming out, you can fix that if you start the 20 yard pin at 40 yds and adjust it to that distance. Any shots closer than 40 will need to be calculated how to hold.
 
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