[philztoy]

When I first started using cross bows and switching from compounds. I had an unrealistic expectation and learned that with crossbows exact range was critical (moreso back then I suppose but still the case). I love the R26 and 400 FPS is pretty good. Range is still important for sure.

I was just wondering if this bow shoots 450FPS. What does that mean in the field. Presumably the bolt would fly flat for a longer distance but how much longer? Or is that presumption incorrect.

If 450 FPS (which Ravin has been pretty accurate about their bow speeds) is accurate. Does that mean the bolt drops 1 " at 50 yards or 5" or what would be the practical performance to expect?

To me it might be worth it if it makes it more of a point and shoot cross bow from 0-40 yards.

 

[dlist777]

I'm not an expert by any means. I use this site sometimes: http://www.bestcrossbowsource.com/crossbow-arrow-ballistics-calculator

If you plug in 400 grain arrow and 400 FPS, you get 18 inch drop at 40 yards. 400 grain and 450 FPS, you get 15 inch. So, 3 inch difference.

More FPS will make the bolt travel further before it hits the ground. The trajectory will be flatter.

What I don't know is, could you sight in at a single distance (say 30 yards) and know that you would be within the kill zone at 0-40 yards. I agree, that would make it "worth it". I limit myself to 40 and it would eliminate the need for a range finder (or at last minimize the need to get a precise accurate range).

 

[robertyb]

You left out a vital piece of information in the above post. What zero were you using to get the 18" drop at 40 yards. I would think you used 20 yards, Do it again using a 30 yard zero.

 

[samt]

Technically, the arrow never flies flat, it starts arching as soon as it leaves the rail. That being said, the tractery of the arch is flatter at higher speeds.

As Robert said, the sight-in distance matters as far as hold-under at close ranges and hold-over at farther ranges.

For example, consider these 4 sight-in distances using a Ravin bow with medium scope rings (3.06" center of scope above center of arrow), at 450fps:

20yd sight-in - - -
20 yd 0.0
30 yd -1.3"
40 yd - 4.5"
50 yd - 9.8"

25 yd sight-in - - -
20 yd +0.3"
30 yd - 0.8"
40 yd - 3.9"
50 yd - 9.0"

30 yd sight-in - - -
20 yd +0.8"
30 yd 0.0
40 yd -2.8"
50 yd -7.7"

35 yd sight-in - - -
20 yd +1.5"
30 yd +1.0"
40 yd - 1.5"
50 yd - 6.0"

* note: All numbers are from the Hawke X-ACT software, which BTW is no longer supported by Hawke), and of course all drops would have to be confirmed with actual practice shooting.

 

[dlist777]

You left out a vital piece of information in the above post. What zero were you using to get the 18" drop at 40 yards. I would think you used 20 yards, Do it again using a 30 yard zero.

Its just vertical drop from the "barrel". Not vs. a sight in distance. That's what I was trying to say in the last paragraph above. It doesn't take into account where you sight it in. If you know of an online resource that does that, please post it up. Maybe someone has data that takes that into account....I know that is more useful.

 

[dlist777]

Technically, the arrow never flies flat, it starts arching as soon as it leaves the rail. That being said, the tractery of the arch is flatter at higher speeds.

As Robert said, the sight-in distance matters as far as hold-under at close ranges and hold-over at farther ranges.

For example, consider these 4 sight-in distances using a Ravin bow with medium scope rings (3.06" center of scope above center of arrow), at 450fps:

20yd sight-in - - -
20 yd 0.0
30 yd -1.3"
40 yd - 4.5"
50 yd - 9.8"

25 yd sight-in - - -
20 yd +0.3"
30 yd - 0.8"
40 yd - 3.9"
50 yd - 9.0"

30 yd sight-in - - -
20 yd +0.8"
30 yd 0.0
40 yd -2.8"
50 yd -7.7"

35 yd sight-in - - -
20 yd +1.5"
30 yd +1.0"
40 yd - 1.5"
50 yd - 6.0"

* note: All numbers are from the Hawke X-ACT software, which BTW is no longer supported by Hawke), and of course all drops would have to be confirmed with actual practice shooting.

Great info. Do you have side by side at 400 FPS to compare? It does seem like a 30 or 35 yard sight in (at 450 FPS) would give the ability to use a single aim point (at least with whitetail) and not worry about adjusting (at least out to 40 yards).

 

[samt]

For example, consider these 4 sight-in distances using a Ravin bow with medium scope rings (3.06" center of scope above center of arrow),


at 450fps: at 400fps
- - - 20yd sight-in - - -
20 yd 0.0 0.0
30 yd -1.3" -2.0"
40 yd - 4.5" -6.5"
50 yd - 9.8" -13.6"

- - - 25 yd sight-in - - -
20 yd +0.3" +0.6"
30 yd - 0.8" -1.2"
40 yd - 3.9" -5.4"
50 yd - 9.0" -12.3"

- - - 30 yd sight-in - - -
20 yd +0.8" +1.3"
30 yd 0.0 0.0
40 yd -2.8" -3.8"
50 yd -7.7" -10.3"

- - - 35 yd sight-in - - -
20 yd +1.5" +2.2"
30 yd +1.0" +1.4"
40 yd - 1.5" -2.0"
50 yd - 6.0" -8.0"

* note: All numbers are from the Hawke X-ACT software, which BTW is no longer supported by Hawke), and of course all drops would have to be confirmed with actual practice shooting.

** I have no idea how, or if, any of these columns will line up properly, but they look good on my tablet!



Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk

 

[robertyb]

Great info Sam. looks to me like a 30 yard -0- at 450 FPS would do the trick using a single crosshair scope on a mature deer with an 8" kill zone. Just hold in the center and let it fly out to 40 yards.

 

[samt]

For example, consider these 4 sight-in distances using a Ravin bow with medium scope rings (3.06" center of scope above center of arrow),


at 450fps _____ at 400fps
- - - 20yd sight-in - - -
20 yd 0.0 _______ 0.0
30 yd -1.3"_____ -2.0"
40 yd - 4.5"_____ -6.5"
50 yd - 9.8"____ -13.6"

- - - 25 yd sight-in - - -
20 yd +0.3"_____+0.6"
30 yd - 0.8"_____ -1.2"
40 yd - 3.9"_____ -5.4"
50 yd - 9.0"____ -12.3"

- - - 30 yd sight-in - - -
20 yd +0.8"_____ +1.3"
30 yd 0.0 ______ 0.0
40 yd -2.8"_____ -3.8"
50 yd -7.7"____ -10.3"

- - - 35 yd sigt-in - - -
20 yd +1.5"_____ +2.2"
30 yd +1.0"_____ +1.4"
40 yd - 1.5"_____ -2.0"
50 yd - 6.0"_____ -8.0"

* note: All numbers are from the Hawke X-ACT software, which BTW is no longer supported by Hawke), and of course all drops would have to be confirmed with actual practice shooting.

** I have no idea how, or if, any of these columns will line up properly, but they look good on my tablet!

Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk

 

[samt]

Great info Sam. looks to me like a 30 yard -0- at 450 FPS would do the trick using a single crosshair scope on a mature deer with an 8" kill zone. Just hold in the center and let it fly out to 40 yards.

I agree Robert. At 400fps you could probably fine tune a little and sight in at 33 yds and get the 20 and 40 yds to equalize out too.

Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk

 

[samt]

Actually, a 35 yd sight-in for 400fps is about as close as you can get, at least with the software.

Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk

 

[philztoy]

Trijicon has you sight in there xbow scope at 30 yards and it is pretty close along the 0-40 range. Thank you so much for the analysis above.

It looks like the 450 FPS might give you a 2" edge here and there. That may be enough to take the plunge or at least look at taking the plunge to the r29+.

I just like the fact that you don't have to hesitate when you shoot. I'm not saying I get buck fever but I sure seem to forget things when I get a big buck in the scope. My spidy sense internal distancing is rarely right. So I always have a rangefinder with me and try to range find various frames of references around my stand. Sometimes I just can't be trusted to get it all right all the time, so reducing variables along the way is helpful to me.

30 to 35 yard sight in might be the right sweet spot for me. Thank you guys again!

 

[No1Rackmaster]

next time you miss a deer at 35 yards...ask your self if that extra "its only 2 1/4" could have made a difference off that faster bow.

 

[philztoy]

Any time I have missed or miss hit a deer I think that 2 1/4" could make a difference. Of course that probably isn't rational or correct.

I did miss hit a buck where it might have made a difference. I don't know for sure but the shot looked good but it didn't penetrate but 6" and fell out as he ran away. No blood. I should have gotten the dog tracker out, but I thought I probably hit that one in the low shoulder or elbow maybe?. 2 1/4" might have made a difference not sure?

I guess I have to decide whether it makes $2500 worth of difference too!

The only thing I know for sure is that in any of the deer I didn't get with a bow or cross bow a rifle would have made a big diffeence!

No matter how good the crossbows get (or how they are advertised). They still aren't rifles.

2 1/4" could make a difference. That is a good way to think of it. I will have to ponder it, hope for a good month of income and a weak point in my monetary conscience and then see!

 

[robertyb]

A good speed dial scope is a lot cheaper than a $3000 bow. No worries about that 2 1/4" drop if you know the distance unless the deer jumps the string and you did not aim low. I did that on a doe at 40 yards last year and she ducked the arrow because I aimed for a mid DL shot instead of a heart shot. My arrow was stuck in a sapling behind her at the perfect height for a DL kill. I know better as she was on alert and I did it anyway.

 

[Riflenut]

Yeah, actual drop numbers from vertical don’t tell a shooter what they need to know.
Yes using a speed scope and having it properly zeroed will tell a shooter more.
Like putting target at 40 yards and holding 30 and 50 yards post on and see impact spot.
Nice to have a 1” scaled lined target. So one can see in actual inches where poi will be depending on hold.

 

[philztoy]

I like the idea of the good speed dial scope. But, I still don't like the optics available for crossbows. I have used lots of them. In day light they are all pretty decent. I haven't found a good one in low light. I find lighted recticles usesless at dusk. when you need them they are too bright and all you can see is recticle. The light gathering is never good on the cross bow scopes I have used. I would like a better low light scope without going with an ATN behemoth.

I have always liked the low light Trijicon recticles in rifle scopes so I tried that this year. It seems to have just the right recticle light no matter at what point of dimming light you are in. So I really like that in their cross bow scope. That scope is light and small so I think it looks good on the R26. The optics quality is about as good as any of the others and better than some. So for me that is about the best. Coincidentally, sighting it in at 30 yards like they suggest puts point of impact pretty close to where I want it from 0-40. It was nice that that was somewhat confirmed above

My Crossbow New Years resolution is to practice more with more variables like riflenut suggests. I think that will help my overall hunting ability. I have been trying to video deer more in the blind also, as I had a friend suggest that doing that has calmed down his nerves. It is so hard to do all the right things at the right time with a big buck in range!

I think the one I mentioned above did perhaps jump the string I remember shooting much lower than the arrow ended up hitting. But on that deer I was using an R20 with a sniper set up for 30yeards (I thought) and the deer was at 20 yards. So that might have caused the arrow to go high? I have since removed the sniper set up and am just trying to reduce my mistake factors as much as I can.

This forum and all of you guys contributing is just a wealth of knowledge and experience so I am also going to keep reading here.

 

[bigbird1]

I believe one of the problems guys make if they are wounding or missing deer is they get too excited at the moment of truth. It's not their gear as much as it is them. They need to ingrain a procedure in their head such that's it part of their subconscious. One thing I learned from shooting my vertical compounds so much years ago is that once you get a technique ingrained in your subconscious, your conscious mind can now fully focus on nothing but aiming.

If I might make a suggestion without the risk of offending anyone, I'd like to suggest the following:
1. When you practice, get in the habit of telling yourself OK. It's X distance so I need to use X reticle.
2. Now before you flip the safety off, place the X reticle dead on the target bullseye and now level your crossbow by centering the bubble with you other eye while your dominate eye is centered in the scope.
3. Then gently squeeze the safety off and repeat step 2 except this time your index finger is on the trigger.
4. Now focus on absolutely nothing but the exact spot you want to hit and provide continuous pressure to the trigger until the shot breaks.
Practice this technique over and over until the shot breaks as a complete surprise and all you see is the arrow headed to the target or in the target.

Now when you go hunting and a animal comes within range and it's not a shooter, slowly bring your crossbow up and repeat steps 1 and 2 above. This will get you accustomed to keeping calm with a animal in range.
In addition, if you bring the crossbow up on a live animal that IS a Shooter, try to tell yourself something like this first:
"Remember, Pick a Spot and Don't Rush the Shot"
Even repeat it several times if necessary.
Now since your subconscious knows what to do and you know what reticle you want to use, just steady aim at a hair you want to hit and let the shot break on it's own.
I guarantee if you practice this technique diligently, there won't be anymore wounded or missed animals.

Again, don't want to offend anyone but just making a suggestion.

 

[philztoy]

Excellent advice and or review for me for sure!

 

[Iowaguy]

Philztoy, When you mentioned, "My Crossbow New Years resolution is to practice more with more variables like riflenut suggests. I think that will help my overall hunting ability,"

That reminded me of the training and practice we did as we trained to do Sniper work in Vietnam ( and state side when we returned home). We were taught and I believe to this day, that practice makes perfect and lack of practice will guarantee the ones shooting skills will degrade...no matter how good they are. When we were not on a mission we spent all our time on the range (eight to ten hours a day). This spring in March I started practicing and put one or two thousand arrows down range at least by hunting season on October 1st thru my R10. I wanted to be able to feel that my crossbow was like my hand or arm, just as we did with sniper rifles. By hunting season I had total confidence that I could put an arrow within a Tennis ball size target at 100 yards and dimes at anything under 70 (not to say I would take a shot there, just wanted to know I could). I suggest if you want total confidence and no hunter's jitters, practice, practice, then practice some more. When kneeling, sitting, standing, off hand, and with a rest...in other words in every conceivable scenario you might com upon. Make that crossbow your third arm! Just as Riflenut suggests.