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Just a hypothetical question. I know many of the members here at Crossbow Nation are not trophy hunters, but how would you feel if your state gave you a specific antler restriction on bucks? Either total number of points or a minimum score. I know this seems far fetched, but they have size restrictions on fish everywhere. Is it that much different?
 

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UL,

PLEASE don't even suggest that. some DAMN fool will decide it's a good plan.

as for me, give me a FAT young WT doe or THREE and you can keep the BIG RACKS, as i have a "new to me" empty deep freeze awaiting 9/15/8.

yours, texasnative46
 

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I do like to hunt for that big buck, however I do kill a few does a year too. What I don't like is the guy that waits all year for a big buck and then late in the season kills a 6 point just so he can say he shot his buck this year. He then saws the rack off and throws it in a box in his garage. Why not shoot a doe instead and let the buck grow a year?
 

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Michigan just changed the laws for the Upper Penisula. It's a two tag system First tag is unrestricted and must be 3 points on a side or better, Restricted must be 4 points on a side or better. For archery the point restriction is the same but archers can shoot does if they choose. It's long over due!! Gun hunuters and a lot of bow hunters have been killing spikes and forks so they can say they got a buck.
You can buy a single deer tag which allows you to shoot any buck with one antler over 3inches

Most guys buy a two tag combo license which is good in archery or gun seasons. Michigan has no registration system so most will still shoot little buck and wheel home immediately with littl;e chance of getting caught. The macho BS of having to shoot a buck has virtuallu eliminated chances at any bug bucks as there are very few spikes and forks left to grow up!
 

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Missouri is Dumb

Well, in MO...they have already done it and its the dumbest way to do it that can be imagined. We havea 4 pt on one side restriction across most of the state. However, the way its implemented the dumb asses protected spike bucks and 3 points on a side. MO has some bucks that have 6 pts and can score 150 or above P&Y. What on earth, isn't that a trophy? And the last time I checked spikes are cull bucks in most states.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
About 5 or 6 years ago parts of PA went to a 4 point on one side restriction. Everyone was pissed off about it and said it sucked. Now that people are seeing results, there attitudes have changed. In ohio we have zero antler restrictions. As a matter of fact if you shoot a spike that has less than 3" spikes, you can tag it as a doe.
 

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This one will never be agreed upon

by everyone. Hell, in some of the hunting leases in Texas I heard you also have to be able to determine the deers' age before shooting:ack2: Boy, I'll be that gets screwed up and folks kicked out of the leases:D
 

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I impose my own antler restrictions. Anything that scores less than 180 walks. I know there are a lot of beginning hunters or old hunters that have not had the opportunity to take a buck. They are usually quick to take down the first 6 or 8 they see to get the buck bragging rights. I say to them what would the size of that 6 or 8 be in 2-3 years. Be patient and let em walk and you'll know the answer to that.
Ohio needs to cull the doe population in a serious way. We take around 230,000 deer every year but the herd is still growing. In spite of that they estimated the herd to be 675,000 last summer. With the current buck to doe ratio I estimate we have, I think we are in for some negative effects on the overall quality of the herd. I read the figure from the farmers association and they want the herd to 250,000. I believe the ODNR wants a more modest number of 500,000. The recent changes to our licensing for the cheaper doe tags was a step in the right direction. Based on my estimations if we take another 230,000 next season then it should put us in the more manageable 500,000 range while balancing the buck to doe ratio some but not enough. But my estimation of the buck to doe ratio and birth numbers are very modest. I expect half to two thirds of the overall herd is a doe of breeding age and they did breed in reality. Adding the $15 doe tags was a step in the right direction.
The one thing I would have done differently is to allow the purchase of a single $15 antlerless tag without the $24 either sex tag first. In my zone I can take 3 deer. 1 buck and 2 does OR 3 does. That way it would allow me the option of buying the either sex tag OR just buying the 3 $15 antlerless tags if I wanted. Button bucks and spikes should be limited to either sex tags only. They keep tweaking the seasons and the tags but they keep doing it in a way that seems to mostly have financial gain in interest.
*Note that in OH a spike buck or a button buck is considered a doe/antlerless for tagging purposes. I don't like this! If you can see knobs or spikes its a buck PERIOD! And yes I know there are genetic abnormalities that have caused does to grow antlers.*
 

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I impose my own antler restrictions. Anything that scores less than 180 walks. I know there are a lot of beginning hunters or old hunters that have not had the opportunity to take a buck. They are usually quick to take down the first 6 or 8 they see to get the buck bragging rights. I say to them what would the size of that 6 or 8 be in 2-3 years. Be patient and let em walk and you'll know the answer to that.

I agree with that for myself,
I am blessed to get to bowhunt a bowhunting only farm in monster buck country in ohio,

If he is not big enough to put on the wall why shoot him?

There are plenty of does for just shooting a deer..I have taken well over 100 deer with a arrows and no longer feel the need to shoot just any buck.
I got to guide in ogelthorp county georgia for 6 years 65 deer per square mile 20 years ago, man that was awesome hunting back then,
I have seen more monster deer in ohio then i ever saw in georgia, but wow lots of deer everyday in the woods in georgia, i grew up in monster buck heaven Chataqua county kansas /sedan kansas now there are some hugh monsters there,is rated tops in kansas for big bucks to this day..

but for my young son i would not fault him for taking his first buck if he was small but after that he will be held to a trophy standard.
 

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edmcclaskey said:
but for my young son i would not fault him for taking his first buck if he was small but after that he will be held to a trophy standard.
I don't exactly agree with that but I understand it. My son 14 and his 15 year old friend have standing rules that forbid them from taking immature bucks from their hunting grounds. What I want them to do is enjoy the harvest and not wall hunt. But with young teenage boys in their competitive mind set thats difficult to control. I mentioned an exceptional 6 pointer I spotted last year in another thread. Both the boys were with me during the youth gun hunt for OH when I jumped it. They both instinctively drew on the deer and I stopped them from releasing safeties. My son using a muzzle loader with a scope and the neighbors boy using my 870 thats taken more deer than I can count. I have no doubt in my mind that between them that 6 pointer would be in a freezer right now. But that particular deer looks like it can be a contender for my wall hanger.
Nutrition is a huge concern for the deer in my area and it often generates what we call scrub bucks. These are little basket racked 2.5 year olds that are actually contenders for breeding rights during the rut. These deer have antlers that can be imitated by you making antler shapes with your hands if you can picture that. The boys are welcome to take the larger, older bucks with declining racks without restriction. They are also welcome to take the scrub bucks equally.
What will this accomplish? It will increase the breeders to the 3.5 to 6.5 age group as it should be. It will cull out the weak and malnourished and it will improve the genetics for the standing herd of newborn bucks. If everyone would practice this our state would have the proper ratio of bucks to does and every new young hunter would have a shot at a 100-130 class mature buck in the third year.
Those boy's look at my head on the wall and they can taste it. They understand my position and accept it. But boys will be boys. The urge to get the buck is so great that they will shoot antlers just to get into the rack club. With proper guidance and patience they will have bragging rights beyond their expectations and improve the the overall herd in the process. Thats what I teach them. My only regret is I don't have more students. I am a passionate hunter in the form of "If you don't eat it don't shoot it" and if you want to wall hang then do it responsibly with QDM in mind.
 

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antlers

we do not gun hunt we bow hunt all through the season, been that way now for 20 years, my son is 8 years old,,,but to be very honest , i do not think he would shoot a little buck, he respects my views and is educated in trophy management.he knows what a big rack is supposed to look like.The only competition we have is within our selfs own value of wildlife,we live in the country and our used to seeing lots of deer.

I have probably passed on more young bucks with a bow then some see in a life time, We all enjoy hunting at different levels of experience and mind sets.
does not make it right or wrong. just mind set..but 30 years ago if it had deer hair i wanted to send a arrow to its mark, i have changed over many years of deer hunting.

I just enjoy being there for the experience i do not have to kill a deer to have a great day in the woods.
Gives me great pleasure to let a young buck walk .let go to grow up to age in antler size.
I would not get to hunt private prime properties without hunting like this.trophy management starts one buck at a time.

What i am saying is a new hunter/ kid /women,man/ should be able to take a young buck if they wish to get it out of there system then settle down to hunt the big boys. Thats just they way i think right or wrong is me? If you must shoot a deer shoot a doe..
here in kentucky we have a bow hunting only wma that is wider then ears law? I am ok with that. great place for bowhunters to take a big buck.
because they get a chance to get some age on them.
in the georgia hunt club 3200 acres,we had antler size restrictions, over 6 years i saw positive results. wider then ears 8 point or better.was the rule or pay a fine..
we had a exception for new hunters,first buck, one only..
My goal for this year is one specific deer a double drop tine monster at mikes farm in ohio.Just to see him is enough ,to inspire you to let them age.
 

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I for the most part agree whole heartedly. I was making no effort to say what you were doing or teaching was wrong. I was more or less reflecting on the specific needs and and values as they apply to my hunting areas and my young hunters. There is nothing wrong with taking young bucks or old bucks for that matter as I described in my previous post. I was more or less trying to describe where I set my bar for goals and purpose as I pass my wisdom along to my young hunters. I think the boys should be able to take the bucks of their choice but I want them to make that choice based on the best QDM values they can and not just shoot the first buck they see.
I said "I don't exactly agree" because of the vague description of the "small first buck" part. I was only trying to describe where I set my bar for my youth hunters and the method to my madness. You have clarified your position and it sounds like we share a common goal. Your wisdom would be a fine asset to any young hunter.
 

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buckeye dan

You sound like a good dad and ethical hunter,
happy to share the deer woods with you and your sons, ed

You see we worked with the university of ga in athens ga to be one of the first trophy management deer clubs/in ga in 1984 and on so the more i learned about deer management the more i changed with a different insight to deer management, university of ga was one of the first to offer whitetail education and have a fine education for those interested in white tail management, very high population of deer in the area 65 deer per square mile back then, surrounding university of ga in athens ga,,awe those were the days...
we were building food plots for deer back then..1984
 

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I look at this way,you dont eat the antlers so I let them go and grow, thats why I have doe tags, unless its a screwed up deer like the one I shot last year. this deer was older then dirt and had a 3 point rack. Didn't want him to keep dipping in the gene pool
 
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