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I've been interested in this doe awhile. just can't force myself to pay that much for a couple of brackets and screws. So why are people buying cables and string from VL? Is the Firenock set that inferior? You would think for what Dorge chares it would be the best stuff available.:oops:
ASK DORGE?
 

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Discussion Starter #82 (Edited)
I've been interested in this doe awhile. just can't force myself to pay that much for a couple of brackets and screws.
Do the “wheels” on both the Firenock and VL brackets spin on a bushing/bearing or are they fixed tight with a screw and the cable just slide over them?
 

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I've been interested in this doe awhile. just can't force myself to pay that much for a couple of brackets and screws. So why are people buying cables and string from VL? Is the Firenock set that inferior? You would think for what Dorge chares it would be the best stuff available.:oops:
Actually GAS makes them for Firenock and VL. VLs are served on both ends and FNs aren't. At least that is my understanding.
 

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Discussion Starter #84
Actually GAS makes them for Firenock and VL. VLs are served on both ends and FNs aren't. At least that is my understanding.
I asked Dorge who makes his cables and what colors - he replied:

"Only 3 companies make mine, Vapor trail, GAs and AeroString of Canada. Since we make and sell so much thus we only offer them in those color"

I’d still like to know why the difference in lengths between Dorge’s and VL’s different length - and what does it do?
 

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I asked Dorge who makes his cables and what colors - he replied:

"Only 3 companies make mine, Vapor trail, GAs and AeroString of Canada. Since we make and sell so much thus we only offer them in those color"

I’d still like to know why the difference in lengths between Dorge’s and VL’s different length - and what does it do?
WHAT ARE THE COLORS?
 

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Discussion Starter #87

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What I offer is both loop ends serves under the process of how GAS strings interlocks them, I may be wrong but I believe it is referred to as a " quad-lock system " . Doing it this way vs others who use a tagged out style loop makes the string / cable system a much more stable set. This also seems to take care of the " fuzzing " complaint that is commonly seen on unserved loop ends.. The served loop end also provides more protection during installation of the cables..

To clarify this if I as a shooter had the option of the 2 to go on my own bow, the served loop ends would go on hands down, period..
 

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The open spot on the fibers can easily be slipped through the orange cam post and installed for those who do it themselves. The only parts that get removed on the bow are the 4 from riser screws so the brackets can be installed.
 

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I ordered the Firenock 2 cable system without cables, mainly based on price for what looked to be the exact same product. Crazy Firenock only knocks $20 bucks off for cables but you can’t buy cables from them for the same $20. Dorge asked why I didn’t want his cables and said that if I went with GAS I would have to remove something to get the one served loop on, where his you didn’t have to do that and therefore his were far better.
I ordered GAS cables and a new string. I specifically told them it was for a 2 cable system. The rep asked if I was shooting the firenock or factory nock because of the od difference between the two. I did have to specify a 2 cable system though.

I haven’t received and installed anything yet but can’t wait to see what this does to improve a great platform.

Thank you,
Jonothan


No, nothing has to be removed... The strands can be slipped in-between the orange cam post , just have to relax the cable and take your time which should take about 8-15 seconds per side.
 

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Discussion Starter #91
What I offer is both loop ends serves under the process of how GAS strings interlocks them, I may be wrong but I believe it is referred to as a " quad-lock system " . Doing it this way vs others who use a tagged out style loop makes the string / cable system a much more stable set. This also seems to take care of the " fuzzing " complaint that is commonly seen on unserved loop ends.. The served loop end also provides more protection during installation of the cables..

To clarify this if I as a shooter had the option of the 2 to go on my own bow, the served loop ends would go on hands down, period..
If my Ravin press ever shows up, I’m going to go with VL’s setup over Firenock’s package to ensure I get GAS string and cables for use with Ravin nocks. Not sure about the fluorescent orange but we’ll see how it goes.

 
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If my Ravin press ever shows up, I’m going to go with VL’s setup over Firenock’s package to ensure I get GAS string and cables for use with Ravin nocks. Not sure about the fluorescent orange but we’ll see how it goes.


I can get most of the color options, but the black angel majesty serving seems to hold up the best in the cable area..
 

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Many had asked why Firenock uses different specs than most on these two cable systems. First, it is to address the fact that with today's string building tools, it is not ideal to built any string that is less than 12" in length. And with four short cables, it is hard for all 4 of them to be in sync. That is why we at Firenock license the patents from Scorpuyd and make this. For those who may not know, the pulley block is a SOLID piece of 420 SS stainless machined and then heat-treated to give strength, so nothing moves. And it is secured with 2 GR5 titanium screw that is longer and uses the original riser thread holes. So you can be sure that is no modification needed to be done. A much longer cable to be used with this approach. The increase in length does not only take full advantage of the current "ZERO" stretch material; it distributes the shock over significantly large/longer areas. This alow the bow to have less residual resonance, which increases downrange speed. The launch speed is dictated by the arrow weight, power stroke, and limb weight (base on load). But how smooth the power is applied is where the downrange arrow speed hold shows. Last many ask why is Firenock specified cable not fully served. The answer is that the Ravin orange pully allows a 0.090" space to pass. When one force passes the loop around the orange pulley with a fully served loop, one can easily damage/deform the loop neck serving and cause issues. YES, if one is super careful and/or removes the orange pulley, one sure can have a cable loop end that is fully served with no major ill effect. BUT in most cases, the orange pully screw is SOAKED with Loctite red, so unless you have really good tools, removing it and put it back perfectly is not in the works! I hope this gives you some idea of what the dual pulley system is about. More questions, just ask, and I shall try my best to answer them.

Last for those who ask what is the colors we offer. We only offer them in natural/black as I want the most durable and stable cables there is. The fact remains, the colors of the cable are based on added wax, which means less fiber strand can be present. And whenever a color is added, so is a knot, which is not desirable. So for maximum performance and most fiber strand, no serve loop and natural are the best one can get.
 
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Many had asked why Firenock uses different specs than most on these two cable systems. First, it is to address the fact that with today's string building tools, it is not ideal to built any string that is less than 12" in length. And with four short cables, it is hard for all 4 of them to be in sync. That is why we at Firenock license the patents from Scorpuyd and make this. For those who may not know, the pulley block is a SOLID piece of 420 SS stainless machined and then heat-treated to give strength, so nothing moves. And it is secured with 2 GR5 titanium screw that is longer and uses the original riser thread holes. So you can be sure that is no modification needed to be done. A much longer cable to be used with this approach. The increase in length does not only take full advantage of the current "ZERO" stretch material; it distributes the shock over significantly large/longer areas. This alow the bow to have less residual resonance, which increases downrange speed. The launch speed is dictated by the arrow weight, power stroke, and limb weight (base on load). But how smooth the power is applied is where the downrange arrow speed hold shows. Last many ask why is Firenock specified cable not fully served. The answer is that the Ravin orange pully allows a 0.090" space to pass. When one force passes the loop around the orange pulley with a fully served loop, one can easily damage/deform the loop neck serving and cause issues. YES, if one is super careful and/or removes the orange pulley, one sure can have a cable loop end that is fully served with no major ill effect. BUT in most cases, the orange pully screw is SOAKED with Loctite red, so unless you have really good tools, removing it and put it back perfectly is not in the works! I hope this gives you some idea of what the dual pulley system is about. More questions, just ask, and I shall try my best to answer them.

Last for those who ask what is the colors we offer. We only offer them in natural/black as I want the most durable and stable cables there is. The fact remains, the colors of the cable are based on added wax, which means less fiber strand can be present. And whenever a color is added, so is a knot, which is not desirable. So for maximum performance and most fiber strand, no serve loop and natural are the best one can get.
the knowledge of science very well presented!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #95
Great post Dorge.
 

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Many had asked why Firenock uses different specs than most on these two cable systems. First, it is to address the fact that with today's string building tools, it is not ideal to built any string that is less than 12" in length. And with four short cables, it is hard for all 4 of them to be in sync. That is why we at Firenock license the patents from Scorpuyd and make this. For those who may not know, the pulley block is a SOLID piece of 420 SS stainless machined and then heat-treated to give strength, so nothing moves. And it is secured with 2 GR5 titanium screw that is longer and uses the original riser thread holes. So you can be sure that is no modification needed to be done. A much longer cable to be used with this approach. The increase in length does not only take full advantage of the current "ZERO" stretch material; it distributes the shock over significantly large/longer areas. This alow the bow to have less residual resonance, which increases downrange speed. The launch speed is dictated by the arrow weight, power stroke, and limb weight (base on load). But how smooth the power is applied is where the downrange arrow speed hold shows. Last many ask why is Firenock specified cable not fully served. The answer is that the Ravin orange pully allows a 0.090" space to pass. When one force passes the loop around the orange pulley with a fully served loop, one can easily damage/deform the loop neck serving and cause issues. YES, if one is super careful and/or removes the orange pulley, one sure can have a cable loop end that is fully served with no major ill effect. BUT in most cases, the orange pully screw is SOAKED with Loctite red, so unless you have really good tools, removing it and put it back perfectly is not in the works! I hope this gives you some idea of what the dual pulley system is about. More questions, just ask, and I shall try my best to answer them.

Last for those who ask what is the colors we offer. We only offer them in natural/black as I want the most durable and stable cables there is. The fact remains, the colors of the cable are based on added wax, which means less fiber strand can be present. And whenever a color is added, so is a knot, which is not desirable. So for maximum performance and most fiber strand, no serve loop and natural are the best one can get.

There is no need to remove the orange cam post, nothing has to be removed from the cam. The loop does not get forced through the orange cam post. The fibers in the open area of the cables can easily be slipped in between the gap of the orange cam post,, plenty of room without any concern of loop damage since the loop doesn't have to contact the cam post at all... I have done it numerous times. On the unserved loop end you have to be more careful that you don't damage fibers when pulling the cable through as you will have to use serving or floss to tug the loop through.
 

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Discussion Starter #97
On the unserved loop end you have to be more careful that you don't damage fibers when pulling the cable through as you will have to use serving or floss to tug the loop through.
What if you lubed the unserved loops with a polymeric string fluid to keep the fibers sort of “packed together” during installation?
 
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What if you lubed the unserved loops with a polymeric string fluid to keep the fibers sort of “packed together” during installation?
Then all the loops get stuck together after pulling it through and its hard to separate and make sure you get all loops over the post. Unserved are a pain in the ass. Dont even think about removing the orange cam post . You will need a new cam.
 

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When I replaced mine I ran a piece of string material through the unserved loop then waxed it well and installed. The string material works well for fishing it through.
 

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Discussion Starter #100
I’m still confused about this so called “spec difference” between the Dorge cables and what VL sends with his package (VL's are always GAS).

Are the cable lengths the same? If not, why?

So for $188 shipped, I get Dorge’s brackets and cables (one of 3 different string manf), and $200 TYD for VL’s brackets and GAS cables. Dorge’s loops are not served, VL’s loops are served (as I understand it).

Soooo - do I understand this that the GAS cables with the Firenock set have the loops unserved and the GAS cables in the VL set are served?

Please excuse my ignorance but it’s a bit hard sometimes to decipher these posts. Want to get this eventually but I want to know exactly what I’m getting. Thanks.
 
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