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I do pride myself on my field accuracy with a Bow.

After all with all this range accuracy we strive for and boost about. Is pretty useless imo if it can't find its way into the field.

Like i said before. Give me a few min's and i'll adjust my scope and use the best tool for the job at hand.


You guys know your hunts and what your seeing as do i.
 

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Reminds me ... of a situation I had a few winters back. Out of state on a project up toward the Canadian border. I was up a tree on the side of a sparsely wooded hill facing north. About 30 yards to the west or my left was a steep drop-off leading to a lightly traveled local road but about 100 yards below that was a well-traveled highway. Immediately behind me to the south was a deep ravine from water washing down the slope. Certainly, within reason for a 400fps arrow to reach the highway since it was so far below me. I whacked a few deer straight in front of me and after a while a bigole gnarly buck came around, but he wouldn't come into my kill zone. Eventually he decided to skirt my field of fire and travel south along the top of the ridge 30 yards to my left. There was a well-worn trail there. I waited for the SOB to get in front of a huge tree trunk and stopped him with a noise. Using the tree as a backstop I lit him up with a Surefire Scout and sent an arrow through him and buried into that tree trunk! :p ;)

Unfortunately the rat [email protected]$t'rd ran off down into the ravine and disappeared on me. I didn't want to be using flashlights because I wound up behind some houses about 80-90 yards south of me. There was a ton of activity around the one joint before it got dark. I had a heck of a time locating him, using only my FLIR thermal unit. The whole time scared to death I'd be discovered in people's back yards and start some firestorm. The heathen almost reached a sideroad. That old Northern buck had a lotta life in him.
You know Duke I would have thought you would be in both schools of thought

Your standard setup for normal woods hunting on large tracks of land. And extreme FOC, heavy arrows for urban settings

Had you shot that buck in the shoulder you would have very likely dropped in his tracks
 

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You know Duke I would have thought you would be in both schools of thought

Your standard setup for normal woods hunting on large tracks of land. And extreme FOC, heavy arrows for urban settings

Had you shot that buck in the shoulder you would have very likely dropped in his tracks
I shot ... a deer in the shoulder with a 200gr, .300WinMag years ago and had to track him ½ mile. Figure 300WinMg, big bullet, cannon, blow through concrete bunkers! Yeah, right...lol That's the reason why I chuckle to myself reading about all this "bone busting" magic you can bank on with lumbering & heavy Ashby broadheads. The bullet exploded on the knuckle joint and shrapnel opened up his lower abdomen like a samurai had at'em. Jumped him twice, pulled out and went back to camp. A few hours later found him in the 3rd bed that was filled with blood. The only bone I ever aim for is the cervical and upper thoracic spine. (Or ¼" above the centerline of the eyes with a rifle. ;)) I have missed high a time or two and hit the brachial plexus and the deer just drops & rolls over dead. Breaking the arrow is often a biproduct of my instant kills for some reason.
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I just didn’t want you guys thinking we’re all that far apart. Yes we’re on the opposite side of the fence if we’re talking killing a whitetail deer. I have found a bigger cut kills faster.
But my arrows are the FOC broadhead tipped arrow weights
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And the Swat x mag broadhead arrow weights
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I shot ... a deer in the shoulder with a 200gr, .300WinMag years ago and had to track him ½ mile. Figure 300WinMg, big bullet, cannon, blow through concrete bunkers! Yeah, right...lol That's the reason why I chuckle to myself reading about all this "bone busting" magic you can bank on with lumbering & heavy Ashby broadheads. The bullet exploded on the knuckle joint and shrapnel opened up his lower abdomen like a samurai had at'em. Jumped him twice, pulled out and went back to camp. A few hours later found him in the 3rd bed that was filled with blood. The only bone I ever aim for is the cervical and upper thoracic spine. (Or ¼" above the centerline of the eyes with a rifle. ;)) I have missed high a time or two and hit the brachial plexus and the deer just drops & rolls over dead. Breaking the arrow is often a biproduct of my instant kills for some reason.
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It is amazing the amount of damage they can sustain and keep running. I shot a nice buck for my area a few years ago with my .300 ultra mag. 150 grain ballistic tips at 3750 FPS. Yeah I know I need a heavier bullet. The 150s are part of my Y2K stockpile that I am working through. Basically the rifle is a super sized 22-250. Anyhow the buck came out a brushy creek bottom and stopped about 85 yards away quartering towards me. I shot him on the point of the shoulder, at the impact he shuttered, and ran towards me. I dropped the rifle because I knew the shot was good. He actually ran past me, and I started to have second thoughts. I chambered another round and pulled up on him, then he fell over. He probably ran almost 100 yards. There was a 50 cent piece entry wound and softball or larger on the far side. The heart and lungs where literally a slurry. I couldn’t believe he ran that far.
 

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I just didn’t want you guys thinking we’re all that far apart. Yes we’re on the opposite side of the fence if we’re talking killing a whitetail deer. I have found a bigger cut kills faster.
But my arrows are the FOC broadhead tipped arrow weights
View attachment 229158
And the Swat x mag broadhead arrow weights
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Those are heavyweight arrows. Duke will probably call them spears. no wonder they had blown through everything.

JH HUNTER
 

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Those are heavyweight arrows. Duke will probably call them spears. no wonder they had blown through everything.

JH HUNTER
Sometimes ... I subscribe to the same theory: "If a little bit is good ... a LOT is better!"
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That pic of that beautifully buck of rtbowhunter is what I would call a perfect location, although it may be shoulder, it looks to me like just meat and ribs so the ranch fairy principles need not apply. If only all our shot placements were that good, nobody would care what they shot!
 

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All the high FOC stuff is good up to a point and equipment really needs to be part of the equation. Last year I decided to increase my FOC with a 200 gr insert along with 150 gr broadhead. Accuracy was excellent, but since I shoot an older crossbow I wasn’t happy with the arrow trajectory. I lived with that one season and decided post season to back off on the insert weight. After alot of testing I backed off on the insert weight by 75 gr resulting in an arrow trajectory that was flat enough to keep sighting much more simple.
 
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All the high FOC stuff is good up to a point and equipment really needs to be part of the equation. Last year I decided to increase my FOC with a 200 gr insert along with 150 gr broadhead. Accuracy was excellent, but since I shoot an older crossbow I wasn’t happy with the arrow trajectory. I lived with that one season and decided post season to back off on the insert weight. After alot of testing I backed off on the insert weight by 75 gr resulting in an arrow trajectory that was flat enough to keep sighting much more simple.
Wow ... the voice of practical application and reason...lol Rainbow trajectories and the momentum to pass through a Buick are a poor tradeoff from frozen rope trajectories and the momentum to pass through a deer and still bury 6" into the ground. (y)
 

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I agree ... that half these hunting shows the arrow is hanging out of the deer. Befuddles me and always has. They must be shooting 25lb bows because every single arrow I've shot a deer with, and that's HUNDREDS from 256fps/58ke up to 450/180ke passed through. (Except head on shots and even some of them came out the back) So "penetration" pretty much isn't even a consideration with modern crossbows.

My second point is Ashby's stuff is great for African or huge animals and is great for grossly underpowered bows. I'd venture 98% of the animals killed on earth are thin skinned, medium game animals and Ashby's stuff is irrelevant. His data was becoming irrelevant three or four decades ago when more powerful compound bows broke onto the scene.
ID, I agree. Seems like noise to me. Hey if it works for you god bless those that evangelize heavy arrows. There is more then one way to skin a cat. I've watched RF channel and his convictions to me can be over the to wearing T-shirts with adult arrows over his chest. Boy is that inflating one's ego. For us Xbow guys and the speeds we are shooting (350-400fps) with 400-450 grain arrows on a whitetail this becomes a moot point.
 

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ID, I agree. Seems like noise to me. Hey if it works for you god bless those that evangelize heavy arrows. There is more then one way to skin a cat. I've watched RF channel and his convictions to me can be over the to wearing T-shirts with adult arrows over his chest. Boy is that inflating one's ego. For us Xbow guys and the speeds we are shooting (350-400fps) with 400-450 grain arrows on a whitetail this becomes a moot point.
More common sense!
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You know guys there is more out there to hunt than whitetail deer right? Also there are still plenty of people shooting well under 400fps and "Rainbow trajectories" were all we had not that long ago. Somehow we managed.
Personally when that 400lb boar comes out to my bait barrel for a stale glazed donut or a moon pie, I would shoot a telephone pole with a sharpened Buick on the end of it if I could.
After all I'd be the one going into the brush in the dark to recover that big bastard and I'd prefer if he was dead when I get to him. If I hit him with what the RF calls a "flapper" and watched him run into the woods with 2/3's of my arrow outside of his chest cavity I would probably not feel really good about going in after him. Also i really wouldn't feel to good about putting my dogs and recovery party on that trail either.
It's all about choices, and having a setup that gives you confidence. If it works you get the bear, if it doesn't well......🤣😂!

✌DF
 

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You know guys there is more out there to hunt than whitetail deer right? Also there are still plenty of people shooting well under 400fps and "Rainbow trajectories" were all we had not that long ago. Somehow we managed.
Personally when that 400lb boar comes out to my bait barrel for a stale glazed donut or a moon pie, I would shoot a telephone pole with a sharpened Buick on the end of it if I could.
After all I'd be the one going into the brush in the dark to recover that big bastard and I'd prefer if he was dead when I get to him. If I hit him with what the RF calls a "flapper" and watched him run into the woods with 2/3's of my arrow outside of his chest cavity I would probably not feel really good about going in after him. Also i really wouldn't feel to good about putting my dogs and recovery party on that trail either.
It's all about choices, and having a setup that gives you confidence. If it works you get the bear, if it doesn't well......🤣😂!

✌DF
I think ... just about everything that's been said was prefixed by "depending on what you're targeting." Or "for deer hunting." Once again if you're like 95% of the people on the forum and hunting deer in the deer woods where there's no chance of running into a hippopotamus there's not much sense of carrying a rig that can dispatch one at the risk of making it harder to kill your deer. They're selling millions of more 100gr broadheads than 200gr broadheads so that's telling us who the audience is reading this stuff...lol ;)
 
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I think ... just about everything that's been said was prefixed by "depending on what you're targeting." Or "for deer hunting." Once again if you're like 95% of the people on the forum and hunting deer in the deer woods where there's no chance of running into a hippopotamus there's not much sense of carrying a rig that can dispatch one at the risk of making it harder to kill your deer. They're selling millions of more 100gr broadheads than 200gr broadheads so that's telling us who the audience is reading this stuff...lol ;)
Duke may be true but the heavy fix blades sales are picking up. Just look at all the companies that joined the party. VPA, Ironwill, Tuffhead, Tooth of the arrow, Ozcut, Edgetac, Grizzlystick, Day six Evo, and Cutthroat to name a few. Times are a changing.

JH HUNTER
 

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Discussion Starter · #79 ·
Poachers kill a lot of Deer with a .22 Long Rifle bullet every year. Just because it CAN be done, doesn't make it the "logical choice" for every hunter to use during rifle deer season!! . And as "Dirt Fahmah" said,... "Also there are plenty of people shooting well under 400fps"
Personally, IF I was a millionaire, I wouldn't pay the kind of prices Ravin and Ten Point and some other are asking for their bows!! BUT....to each his own!
I think IT"S NUTS!!! The price of your BOW doesn't make YOU a better hunter!!
YES...I Know....I just pissed off a bunch of folks.🤬😂 And I know I'll get hate mail... BUT the truth is the truth!!😎
I don't care if you shoot the cheapest bow on the market or the most expensive!!!
Native Americans killed ELK and Buffalo with bows that probably didn't pass 100-150 fps!! With points on them measured in ounces...NOT grains!!😎


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Now...If that high dollar, warp-speed bow drove itself out to the lease, did ALL the work on the lease, killed the deer, gutted it, skinned it, quartered it, and then processed it for me, I MIGHT think about spending that kind of money!!😂🤣
And yes, I said... MIGHT!!!😊

And NOT everyone hunts just whitetails!! Now...Why would you have 10 different arrow/broadhead combos that you have to re-sight every time you go hunt something other than a whitetail?? Pick one arrow and broadhead that will KILL everything you ever plan on hunting, and stick with it!!
That's All I'm saying....

I guess if you have a ton of money, and don't mind spending it, then be my guest! I know I cringe every time I buy new arrows. Quality arrows/bolts will run you on average probably a $100 or better for HALF a dozen, and those ain't the most expensive!!! Quality heads will run you $60-$70 bucks for 3. Not $19.95!!😝
I want mine to work everytime I let one fly!
And yes...I want it to kill the tree on the other side of the Deer!!🤪😜

Okay...I'll shut up...for now! 🤣 But this is what makes us a diverse community of folks who hunt. Each and everyone one of us is passionate about what we do, and how we go about it. No one is completely right, and no one is completely wrong. Each person brings his or her own experiences to bear.
Some of us have pursued game in more places than some have ever imagined. I was lucky as a young man. I got to hunt from Maine to Alaska and from Canada to Old Mexico.
Just wish I'd have made Africa. Thank GOD Texas is full of African and other exotic game these days!!😃

This original post was done to give you something to mull over before Deer season starts. NOT to criticize your choice of weaponary or methods used... although... it is fun to poke at folks!🤣
 
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Duke may be true but the heavy fix blades sales are picking up. Just look at all the companies that joined the party. VPA, Ironwill, Tuffhead, Tooth of the arrow, Ozcut, Edgetac, Grizzlystick, Day six Evo, and Cutthroat to name a few. Times are a changing.

JH HUNTER
But ... how much of that might be creating a "need" that isn't there just to sell products in a time where prices and profits have gone stupid high? Outfits are jumping in because there's so much money to be mined. The physics on all this hasn't changed in a hundred years. Going to a fixed head that the average hunter can't get to fly well can be catastrophic. There's a good reason fixed blades are always small. No matter how you look at it a 2½"-3" blade makes a bigger hole than a 1" Slick Trick and will fly like a field point at 500fps. I won't get into a debate over lethality of a big mechanical vs a small fixed blade, but I will say that odds are it's going to fly a lot better out of many of the very fast crossbows guys are buying these days. That makes for less wounded DEER. (Not rhinoceroses :p ;)) Penetration is NOT an issue with crossbows for killing deer. It doesn't make sense to employ maximizing penetration and momentum physics where you don't need to. You're far better off maximizing point blank range, inherent improved accuracy, and reduced time to target with all that extra kinetic energy.:)
 
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