[Iron Duke]

Poachers kill a lot of Deer with a .22 Long Rifle bullet every year. Just because it CAN be done, doesn't make it the "logical choice" for every hunter to use during rifle deer season!! . And as "Dirt Fahmah" said,... "Also there are plenty of people shooting well under 400fps"
Personally, IF I was a millionaire, I wouldn't pay the kind of prices Ravin and Ten Point and some other are asking for their bows!! BUT....to each his own!
I think IT"S NUTS!!! The price of your BOW doesn't make YOU a better hunter!!
YES...I Know....I just pissed off a bunch of folks.🤬😂 And I know I'll get hate mail... BUT the truth is the truth!!😎
I don't care if you shoot the cheapest bow on the market or the most expensive!!!
Native Americans killed ELK and Buffalo with bows that probably didn't pass 100-150 fps!! With points on them measured in ounces...NOT grains!!😎


View attachment 229367 ☠



Now...If that high dollar, warp-speed bow drove itself out to the lease, did ALL the work on the lease, killed the deer, gutted it, skinned it, quartered it, and then processed it for me, I MIGHT think about spending that kind of money!!😂🤣
And yes, I said... MIGHT!!!😊

And NOT everyone hunts just whitetails!! Now...Why would you have 10 different arrow/broadhead combos that you have to re-sight every time you go hunt something other than a whitetail?? Pick one arrow and broadhead that will KILL everything you ever plan on hunting, and stick with it!!
That's All I'm saying....

I guess if you have a ton of money, and don't mind spending it, then be my guest! I know I cringe every time I buy new arrows. Quality arrows/bolts will run you on average probably a $100 or better for HALF a dozen, and those ain't the most expensive!!! Quality heads will run you $60-$70 bucks for 3. Not $19.95!!😝
I want mine to work everytime I let one fly!
And yes...I want it to kill the tree on the other side of the Deer!!🤪😜

Okay...I'll shut up...for now! 🤣 But this is what makes us a diverse community of folks who hunt. Each and everyone one of us is passionate about what we do, and how we go about it. No one is completely right, and no one is completely wrong. Each person brings his or her own experiences to bear.
Some of us have pursued game in more places than some have ever imagined. I was lucky as a young man. I got to hunt from Maine to Alaska and from Canada to Old Mexico.
Just wish I'd have made Africa. Thank GOD Texas is full of African and other exotic game these days!!😃

This original post was done to give you something to mull over before Deer season starts. NOT to criticize your choice of weaponary or methods used... although... it is fun to poke at folks!🤣

How many ... firearms does the average guy own? Why? Because you don't kill squirrels with your .375 H&H. There's a time and place for a .375 and nobody is debating that. There's no need for it in the deer woods though. There are much better options out there.

 

[JH HUNTER]

But ... how much of that might be creating a "need" that isn't there just to sell products in a time where prices and profits have gone stupid high? Outfits are jumping in because there's so much money to be mined. The physics of all this hasn't changed in a hundred years. Going to a fixed head that the average hunter can't get to fly well can be catastrophic. There's a good reason fixed blades are always small. No matter how you look at it a 2½"-3" blade makes a bigger hole than a 1" Slick Trick and will fly like a field point at 500fps. I won't get into a debate over lethality of a big mechanical vs a small fixed blade, but I will say that odds are it's going to fly a lot better out of many of the very fast crossbows guys are buying these days. That makes for less wounded DEER. (Not rhinoceroses ) Penetration is NOT an issue with crossbows for killing deer. It doesn't make sense to employ maximizing penetration and momentum physics where you don't need to. You're far better off maximizing point blank range, inherent improved accuracy, and reduced time to target with all that extra kinetic energy.

Get your point. And I'm going to make a video very shortly about how well these VPA fix blades fly. You will be pretty amazed at the accuracy of high-foc arrows with these fixed blades. Better accuracy at 60-80 yards than most get with a 100gr. fielpiont. I do not own or shoot an inaccurate weapon of any sort. For me, there is just something special about practicing with the broadhead, sharpening it up, and hunting more than one animal with the same broadhead over and over.

JH HUNTER

 

[AJ01]

How many ... firearms does the average guy own? Why? Because you don't kill squirrels with your .375 H&H. There's a time and place for a .375 and nobody is debating that. There's no need for it in the deer woods though. There are much better options out there.

I have a .375 H&H Remington Safari Grade...and I have shot Deer with it!!🤣😂🤣 And squirrels are next on the "Hit" list!!😎
I actually have a matched set of Remington's in the Safari Grade edition, .458 Winchester, .416 Rem Mag and the .375.
Love those guns!! I like Big Guns!!
IF... and when I carry a rifle into the field,(which is RARE these days), 90% of the time it's a custom H.S. Precision in 7MM STW.
Heaven help the squirrels!!🤣😂

We get your point "Iron Duke", but the "average" hunter may NOT posses the skills nor the patience to take,or make, that perfect shot that WE ALL need to make. So...why not "hedge your bet"?
That's all we are saying...

And I promise not to hunt squirrels with the .375!!!😊

 

[abwgtx]

And NOT everyone hunts just whitetails!! Now...Why would you have 10 different arrow/broadhead combos that you have to re-sight every time you go hunt something other than a whitetail?? Pick one arrow and broadhead that will KILL everything you ever plan on hunting, and stick with it!!my

Kind of my plan, one arrow does all to 40yds.
Do you do the TPWD public lands Lotto? Last year I was drawn at the Chap WMA archery GDE hunt. One of the lucky guys there was drawn earlier at Elephant Mountain WMA and got a Bull Elk with a Centerpoint 370. Probably the first public lands archery ELK ever taken in Texas. My buddy saw a warthhog at about 100+yds. My "Throphy Class" Buck never showed and passed on a cull buck the first afternoon but I took a doe the last morning.

 

[AJ01]

Kind of my plan, one arrow does all to 40yds.
Do you do the TPWD public lands Lotto? Last year I was drawn at the Chap WMA archery GDE hunt. One of the lucky guys there was drawn earlier at Elephant Mountain WMA and got a Bull Elk with a Centerpoint 370. Probably the first public lands archery ELK ever taken in Texas. My buddy saw a warthhog at about 100+yds. My "Throphy Class" Buck never showed and passed on a cull buck the first afternoon but I took a doe the last morning.

I've been putting in for the draw hunts for years, starting back in the late 80's. Looking forward to this season's drawings! I've hunted a bunch , but I guess my favorite is Garner State Park on the exotics. Followed by anything where I can hunt Nilgai!! 😊
Chaparral can be tough to hunt. If I remember correctly it's like 16,000 plus acres. Lots of game. Gotta love the Javelina!
There use to be walk-in cooler at the "house" made it's nice to hang deer. Haven't been on The Chap" in a few years. Actually stopped putting in for it even.

I like hunting the crazy stuff you can hunt here in Texas. 🤣😎😂

 

[Iron Duke]

I have a .375 H&H Remington Safari Grade...and I have shot Deer with it!!🤣😂🤣 And squirrels are next on the "Hit" list!!😎
I actually have a matched set of Remington's in the Safari Grade edition, .458 Winchester, .416 Rem Mag and the .375.
Love those guns!! I like Big Guns!!
IF... and when I carry a rifle into the field,(which is RARE these days), 90% of the time it's a custom H.S. Precision in 7MM STW.
Heaven help the squirrels!!🤣😂

We get your point "Iron Duke", but the "average" hunter may NOT posses the skills nor the patience to take,or make, that perfect shot that WE ALL need to make. So...why not "hedge your bet"?
That's all we are saying...

And I promise not to hunt squirrels with the .375!!!😊

You're thinking ... wrong about "hedging your bet" if we're talking deer. Fast & flat "IS" hedging your bet for most hunters...lol 😂 Most wounded deer are from mis-estimating range, NOT under-penetration. F&F gives you a wider PBR.... Point Blank Range and more room to misinterpret distance to target.

Lovely set of rifles you got there. My days of big shoulder thumpers are behind me. When I first hooked up with the pros they kill almost everything with suppressed .223Rem and claimed to abhor recoil. I thought to myself "what a bunch of girls." Now ... I try to avoid recoil too...lol

 

[AJ01]

That Duke, is why I now shoot my crossbow at everything!!!

I haven't killed an animals with a rifle, or anything that goes "BOOM" for that matter in over a dozen years!! My boys and grandson's rifle hunt. My rifle collection has dwindled over the years. They get "borrowed" and never brought back!!😊
My grandson's, (4 of them), think I'm a "Legend" because I just hunt with a bow.
And I dang sure ain't telling them any different!!😎

 

[Iron Duke]

That Duke, is why I now shoot my crossbow at everything!!!

I haven't killed an animals with a rifle, or anything that goes "BOOM" for that matter in over a dozen years!! My boys and grandson's rifle hunt. My rifle collectionhas dwindled over the years. They get "borrowed" and nver brought back!!😊
My grandson's, (4 of them), think I'm a "Legend" because I just hunt with a bow.
And I dang sure ain't telling them any different!!😎

LOL ... I know that "don't come back" routine. My son "borrowed" a pile of instruments and tools over the years. One day when I was casually breaking his cojones about the instruments he equally casually replied with a chuckle: "I need them more than you." 😂 (Actually, I've given him a lot of stuff too.)

 

[wildcatter]

Wow ... the voice of practical application and reason...lol Rainbow trajectories and the momentum to pass through a Buick are a poor tradeoff from frozen rope trajectories and the momentum to pass through a deer and still bury 6" into the ground.

Duke your response is absolutely meaningless to anyone that knows what trajectory changes need to be of any significance!! I have tested and proven this over and over! Yes aside from more consistent accuracy in real life element!

The 75 grains is so meaningless in speed or the "frozen rope" exaggeration it only draws thoughts of practical meaning from those of us without a clue, or those that come here unknowing what 75 grains consist of,,,,, = about 20 fps give or take 5 fps! In real life this less than 2" at 40 yards with a 30 yard zero going from 325 fps to 350 fps. This is significant??????

But when we consider how much the elements affect an arrow say 375 grains when we add 75 up front to a 450 grain arrow the difference is a wash at 40 yards! I'll take all the advantages GAINED by that 75 grains up front!!
consistency and accuracy both increase,,, I've tested this on dozens of bows!

wind drift is greatly exaggerated at 40 yards when you loose 75 grains up front!

Miss a small weed between you and that deer 40 yards away and 75 grains is huge in the deflection you will see 10 or 20 yards behind the deflection!! Again, yes I have tested this intensely for years!

The penetration on the bone you are more likely to hit now with the elements affecting that wimpy arrow that is likely severely compromised from a severe lack of anything near proper FOC is even more challenged and likely to hit where you don't want it now!!

We will ignore the likely even more stress on the bow itself like limbs and vibration, but obviously slow bows need less noise at 30 yards let alone 40 and beyond, and that 75 grains is very noticeable on any bow that is in speed bracket between 325 and 350 fps. These are in both recurve and compound, and big time difference between 370 grains to 445 grains!!! Obviously noticeable!

Sorry Duke we never have agreed on speed,, which is obviously way over rated!! But when you try and sell getting it this way, all up front on the nose of a most likely comprised arrow to begin with,,,, your selling the wrong information to those who don't understand the bigger picture!!!

 

[Dirt fahmah]

God please keep me from becoming "most guys", "average hunter" or the " the 95%"!
🤣😂🤣
✌DF

 

[Huntersthompson]

I will build animal specific arrows and sight in for that arrow. I know I am hunting deer every year. Elk,bear,pig.....when and if I get lucky enough to do that hunt ,I will build accordingly. Know where to go for help if I need it. 🙃

 

[Blaster]

I think ... just about everything that's been said was prefixed by "depending on what you're targeting." Or "for deer hunting." Once again if you're like 95% of the people on the forum and hunting deer in the deer woods where there's no chance of running into a hippopotamus there's not much sense of carrying a rig that can dispatch one at the risk of making it harder to kill your deer. They're selling millions of more 100gr broadheads than 200gr broadheads so that's telling us who the audience is reading this stuff...lol

I been laying deer out for years with a vertical bow and a 550 ish ehfoc arrow barely going 240 fps.

And never once had a issue getting my arrows too the animal due too trajectory.

I cant see how a 560 grain arrow going much faster is going to be a issue.

Let's face the facts gents. There are fanboys on both sides of this argument and no matter of facts,opinions are going to change anything for anyone.

I tryed the light and fast with my vertical bow. Struggled too get pass throughs even with fixed blade broadheads. So I explored my options. Turns out a very much slower ehfoc arrow in the 550 grain range allows me too blow through anything up to and including 380 pound feral hogs.

So naturally I took my knowledge and built the same weight range and foc range for my crossbow arrows.

To many high and mightys and too many internet experts on these subjects. Just enjoy the data, take from it what is useful too you and go kill stuff with your gear setup how you like. And dont worrie what others do.

Still amused that my 560 grain bolts wont beable too used in thick woods due to there trajectory lmffao.

 

[Iron Duke]

Duke your response is absolutely meaningless to anyone that knows what trajectory changes need to be of any significance!! I have tested and proven this over and over! Yes aside from more consistent accuracy in real life element!

The 75 grains is so meaningless in speed or the "frozen rope" exaggeration it only draws thoughts of practical meaning from those of us without a clue, or those that come here unknowing what 75 grains consist of,,,,, = about 20 fps give or take 5 fps! In real life this less than 2" at 40 yards with a 30 yard zero going from 325 fps to 350 fps. This is significant??????

But when we consider how much the elements affect an arrow say 375 grains when we add 75 up front to a 450 grain arrow the difference is a wash at 40 yards! I'll take all the advantages GAINED by that 75 grains up front!!
consistency and accuracy both increase,,, I've tested this on dozens of bows!

wind drift is greatly exaggerated at 40 yards when you loose 75 grains up front!

Miss a small weed between you and that deer 40 yards away and 75 grains is huge in the deflection you will see 10 or 20 yards behind the deflection!! Again, yes I have tested this intensely for years!

The penetration on the bone you are more likely to hit now with the elements affecting that wimpy arrow that is likely severely compromised from a severe lack of anything near proper FOC is even more challenged and likely to hit where you don't want it now!!

We will ignore the likely even more stress on the bow itself like limbs and vibration, but obviously slow bows need less noise at 30 yards let alone 40 and beyond, and that 75 grains is very noticeable on any bow that is in speed bracket between 325 and 350 fps. These are in both recurve and compound, and big time difference between 370 grains to 445 grains!!! Obviously noticeable!

Sorry Duke we never have agreed on speed,, which is obviously way over rated!! But when you try and sell getting it this way, all up front on the nose of a most likely comprised arrow to begin with,,,, your selling the wrong information to those who don't understand the bigger picture!!!

Catter ... you must shoot deer in one of those gnarly forests out of Lord of the Rings or something. You're always selling Lincoln log arrows to shoot through leaves, twigs and small tree limbs. And the guys around here know what they're doing with 30 yard zeros. I'll bet 90% of the crossbowers out there are using 20 yard zeros where trajectory issues at any distance are multiplied. I don't know about everyone else, but I've always been a "clear my field of fire guy" during the off-season. 😂 I know the pros are positively anal about clearing the field of fire to prevent GFs.

Tell you a little arrow weight story. Now I killed a pile of deer with my vertical bow, 302gr total weight CarbonTech Cheetah 3D arrows topped with Standard 85gr 1" Slick Tricks. Probably around 55ke or so if I recall. ALL pass throughs. I know what a light arrow will do. Moving onto crossbows, they're .300WinMags in comparison, even 400gr arrows that so many are ragging on. Now, I was shooting about 408gr arrows and called Wyvern to make me some 400gr for a little more speed. Got the arrows and they were 440gr. Kinda pissed me off but I let it ride because I like Dave. I was down in Virginia helping train & test some NWCOA candidates and the boss asked me to bring the Scorpyd. His then girlfriend had a house down there and I stayed with her. I was jerking around with my DOA bench in her yard and at 60 yards I tried the 408gr vs Wyvern's 440gr. There was about a 1" difference in POI. (although I'm not sure if I was using a 30 yard or 40 yard zero) I tried a 40 yard zero for a while, but it wasn't "intuitive." Went back to 30 yard zero. So, there's not a huge difference, but ... there IS a difference.

 

[wildcatter]

Catter ... you must shoot deer in one of those gnarly forests out of Lord of the Rings or something. You're always selling Lincoln log arrows to shoot through leaves, twigs and small tree limbs. And the guys around here know what they're doing with 30 yard zeros. I'll bet 90% of the crossbowers out there are using 20 yard zeros where trajectory issues at any distance are multiplied. I don't know about everyone else, but I've always been a "clear my field of fire guy" during the off-season. 😂 I know the pros are positively anal about clearing the field of fire to prevent GFs.

Tell you a little arrow weight story. Now I killed a pile of deer with my vertical bow, 302gr total weight CarbonTech Cheetah 3D arrows topped with Standard 85gr 1" Slick Tricks. Probably around 55ke or so if I recall. ALL pass throughs. I know what a light arrow will do. Moving onto crossbows, they're .300WinMags in comparison, even 400gr arrows that so many are ragging on. Now, I was shooting about 408gr arrows and called Wyvern to make me some 400gr for a little more speed. Got the arrows and they were 440gr. Kinda pissed me off but I let it ride because I like Dave. I was down in Virginia helping train & test some NWCOA candidates and the boss asked me to bring the Scorpyd. His then girlfriend had a house down there and I stayed with her. I was jerking around with my DOA bench in her yard and at 60 yards I tried the 408gr vs Wyvern's 440gr. There was about a 1" difference in POI. (although I'm not sure if I was using a 30 yard or 40 yard zero) I tried a 40 yard zero for a while, but it wasn't "intuitive." Went back to 30 yard zero. So, there's not a huge difference, but ... there IS a difference.

In the first place you don't hunt,,, you control overpopulated wildlife!! This is a huge difference as you know, but often fail to mention! Everyone who knows me here knows years ago I was coaxing others to scrap 20 for 30 yard zeros, and how to calibrate a no fiddle multi reticle scope to do such!

Maybe you could show us some of your trophies from these well manicured areas you "hunt"? I know for a fact there is very little pressure most of the places you kill deer, I also am aware that most are taken in well populated areas!! Many we call suburbs! Please consider the terms you choice when referring to killing deer, and understand some of us do both! In fact most would never consider 425 grains heavy,,, let alone logs!!

Sorry Duke but you have a habit of confusing apples to oranges, and most here realize their is a huge difference in what you call hunting and what most here consider hunting. That alone should be obvious to a man who does do both, hunt and control game! In all honesty most here, even newbies know the more you prune and clearer you make the area for your convenience, the fewer trophy animals you will see, let alone get a shot at! Your not hunting for trophies when you do that, your clearing more than just brush, your clearing anything that presents a target, big difference!

This is why I prefer the thickest chit in my area, that and the fact that I have proven, even on public land,, the clueless misfits and hunt destroyers, you know cowboys cut loose with hunting equipment, even they wont go there, but while trolling everything else will run those animals to me in that thick jungle no one else wants to be in.

More than once me and one other guy hunting where those mighty hunters won't spent 5 days filling tags and not in the suburbs, but heavily hunted public land without seeing another sole all week!! Those black bags are what we call fillets, not scraps!! This is late season after the herd has been educated heavily for months,,, and I assure you this don't happen hunting open woods that time of year!!! That's just "HUNTING",,,,,,

Then for meaningful differences,,, in benchrest minute differences matter a lot, in the field hunting, minute differences are just that minute!

 

[JH HUNTER]

Boys we are heading in the wrong direction now. Pressure is starting to build up. The comments are starting to get personal. Let's see if we can keep it clean. Both setups have been proven to kill deer-size game. As both of you have shown. Good luck to all on the season. Happy hunting and let those arrows fly straight.

JH HUNTER

 

[Iron Duke]

Boys we are heading in the wrong direction now. Pressure is starting to build up. The comments are starting to get personal. Let's see if we can keep it clean. Both setups have been proven to kill deer-size game. As both of you have shown. Good luck to all on the season. Happy hunting and let those arrows fly straight.

JH HUNTER

Nah ... Catter is golden. He knows what he's doing and why he's doing it. And he's passionate about it. Passion is a rare commodity these days. Nothing personal. He's right, I couldn't care less about "trophy deer," even though I've killed some impressive ones. He's right ... and wrong about one thing, in some cases the deer are naïve and easy to stack up AT FIRST. You have to know what you're doing though. They catch on FAST. It gets harder and harder. And, I've killed some of the hardest deer to kill you're going to find. Just because it might be in a populated area, doesn't mean they haven't been hunted by nimods and given a Rhode Scholar education in survival. I've had to kill deer where inept hunters have even had permits to hunt them at night. And in many cases dead of winter after they've been hammered for 6 months. All that aside, the performance of equipment has nothing to do with any of this. A deer is a deer whether it's in Ohio, New Jersey or Texas. The performance of an arrow and broadhead going through a deer in Jersey will tell you how it's going to go through a deer anywhere. My deer may or may not be stupid,😂 but I've put arrows through hundreds of them. Therefore, I can probably speak with some credibility concerning arrow and broadhead performance on whitetail deer.

 

[rt2bowhunter]

Here's my story trying to cut it short. About 25 years ago i started leaving the trees using trad bows. Mainly because hunting trees and killing deer just became to easy. So i bought a Ghillie suit modified it so i could shoot a trad bow. And started ground hunting. I quickly learned that my COC 2 blade small fixed heads left hardly any blood. And the deer most of the time ran out of sight. So here came my first choice, go back to the trees or cut a bigger hole. I chose to cut a bigger hole. I learned i still didn't have a treestand bloodtrail most of the time hardly any blood. But they died faster and i didn't have to look as long. Fast forward to crossbows where i have used you can just about name it. And i saw pretty much the same thing ground hunting. What i call small cut fixed ran farther and spilled less blood. Larger cutting fixed like the grizztrick killed faster. The turning point for me and why i went expandable was 2 events one staged. 1 st event i'm in a blind there snow cover. Last of the season i have a tag left so i'm doe hunting. I shoot this doe at 15 yds she runs 60 yds and crosses a creek and i see her flip over backwards when she tries to climb the other bank. Not a single drop of blood in the snow. Using a 1 1/4" x 1 1/4 " cut fixed blade head. You can't find fault with the shot as she only made it 60 some yards.

2nd was a few years ago this same back and forth was going on as it is now. Mostly between Duke and myself. When i said ok. I bought a single bevel 2 blade 1 1/8 cut very sharp broadhead and did a vs a NAP FOC Expandable. But i did it on deer. I pride myself on being a good field shot i can post pics of Bucks killed where the poi changes very little over the years. So i go out and kill a buck with the FOC a nice 10 point. He ran about 40 ish yards and just died in plain sight. Like i have seen many times. I go back a few days latter to the same area. And kill a doe i pass up several waiting until i get as best as i could the same distance shot and angle. And i let the arrow fly with the 2 blade COC. It was a good hit and out of there she ran. Like i have seen so many times no blood on the ground. But this time no deer either. So i looked and looked. Finally i see her white belly across the hollow. She had run 200yds with as close as a man could shoot 2 different deer. Now make up whatever excuse you will. I know there's plenty headed my way lol. But i did the test and i know what i saw. And i know what i have seen in the past.

See i had no doubt the little head would kill. I just don't like the after the shot part. Talking deer here that's my main target. My other target is gobblers. Deer in the fall Gobblers in the spring. I hunted gobblers with the FOC but thru testing good killing heads on gobblers the 2 that i found to be the best. Was the hammer head and the one that edged it out is the Swhacker 3" 150 gr.

Like i posted before if i ever go to Africa or moose hunting. Then i'll prepare to kill what ever and use what ever i probably should. I have a test going on this year that's kinda has been going on for 3 years. NAP vs Swat X Mag. Come 9/24 i think lol. I will be deer hunting with the Swat X Mag. If it wants to live on top of the hill its its to win. But its got to show me it kills faster so far it has. If it does this year being my main head. With the other bow set up with FOC' looking over its shoulder lol. Then i will retire the FOC one or the other is going to get replaced. I have no favorite just what kills the best.

That's just how i do things from inserts to nocks who ever wins wins.

 

[Bobw67]

Seems like most are saying their setups blow thru deer, lite or heavy, fixed or mechanical. Probably true with deer and rib hits,BUT, shouldn't this be about the what if hits? What if I hit leg bone, what if I hit the heavy part of the scapula? I don't doubt mechs work 99% on rib shots with those 400fps crossbows. Trajectory? Shouldn't we be using a range finder on every shot over 25yrds or at least 30yrds? Blood trail? Shot deer on the ground with 3" swacker, not much blood, deer went 135yrds, must have had close to 5" exit(double lung, little high). If you need more penetration or desire to break bones, there is a simple formula...high foc, heavier arrows, smaller diameter heads. Do YOU need that? Maybe not. Do you need huge holes? Probably not. Do you need more penetration or bust heavier bone? Maybe!

 

[Iron Duke]

Seems like most are saying their setups blow thru deer, lite or heavy, fixed or mechanical. Probably true with deer and rib hits,BUT, shouldn't this be about the what if hits? What if I hit leg bone, what if I hit the heavy part of the scapula? I don't doubt mechs work 99% on rib shots with those 400fps crossbows. Trajectory? Shouldn't we be using a range finder on every shot over 25yrds or at least 30yrds? Blood trail? Shot deer on the ground with 3" swacker, not much blood, deer went 135yrds, must have had close to 5" exit(double lung, little high). If you need more penetration or desire to break bones, there is a simple formula...high foc, heavier arrows, smaller diameter heads. Do YOU need that? Maybe not. Do you need huge holes? Probably not. Do you need more penetration or bust heavier bone? Maybe!

I've been killing ... deer with two heads "almost" exclusively for about 7 years. 2¾" Spitfire MAXX/Edge 3 blades and/or 3" NAP-FOC 2 blade on 400gr to 428gr arrows at 386fps-452fps. Shot a 150gr Slick Trick Crossbow a few times, and tried TruGlo Titanium 4 blades on about 18 or so deer. RT2 post #97 is pretty much spot-on. (Although, in the field one evening I accidently screwed a 100gr broadhead on one of my arrows specifically made with a 23gr insert for 170FOCs. That gave me about a 350gr arrow that I shot through a deer with my Scorpyd. The arrow must have been going 724.3fps...lol 😂) I kinda said to myself, "my, that arrow got there fast?" Little did I know...lol

I'll say again: "you don't handicap yourself with inferior ballistics planning on making a bad shot." In my opinion, that's what my old mentor called "gambling to lose." As for "rib bones" I shot a deer so hard quartering away a couple years ago that my mechanical cut through about 5 ribs on it's left side before killing it. Looked like Akira Kurosawa's Seven Samurai had at'it. I can see Wildcatter's perspective of trying to maintain course through twigs & leaves if that's where and how you hunt, but I don't see planning on hitting thick leg bones. And to be honest, if you're hitting a humerus or femur you're WAY off target to begin with. Even if the arrow goes through, a kill is unlikely. Furthermore, I seriously doubt an arrow is going to pierce a shoulder knuckle joint, plow on through and take out both lungs. I hit that knuckle with a 200gr, 3,000ke bullet and the bullet just exploded on it never passing through. I get that a broadhead cuts, but 3,000ke??? I've been around thousands of deer killed with arrows and I have never seen or heard of an archer who said they hit a big bone and still killed the deer. It's like wearing a NASCAR firesuit, gloves, full helmet and 3" 5 point harness belt in your everyday driver "in case you get in an accident." And by the way, I have purposely driven Spitfires trough deer spines on a dozen occassions. Instantly fatal in all but one. That one was anchored but took a coup-de-grace follow-up arrow.

As always, each guy puts together his rig according to his own philosopies, his experience, his budget and the way he hunts. On this, or any forum, you are exposed to an astounding amount of knowledge and experience. Much of it adds to YOUR WAY of hunting and killing stuff. You pick and chose what helps make your system better. I simply offer my experiences, whatever knowledge I may have acquired, and my reasons for choosing my gear and how I use it. If it helps crossbowers, archers and hunters, beautiful. It's a "pay it forward" for all I've learned from "guys on forums."

 

[Iron Duke]

Show me ... what bone you're hitting and still killing that deer?...lol So why build an arrow that "supposedly" passes through bones?