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Armed Citizen
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Discussion Starter #1
There are a few in West Virginia that want freedom to chose which bow they want to hunt with on any given day in archery season. I am not sure how many there are but I am creating this thread for the purpose of bringing some WV hunters into a pro crossbow zone so we can discuss what needs to be done to get them on the playing filed with MI, NJ, PA and many many others that are fighting for full inclusion.
 

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WV needs help!!

I've been pushing for it. And I can tell you it's like pushing against a stonewall. The WBHA is a strong lobbyist.

I had a hard time getting a crossbow section on WVSportsman.net seems folk just want to argue about the subject instead serious debate. I've made several attempts to discuss the subject there.

I'm hoping to learn a little bit better ways to from Dan and others.

Chuck
 

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Huntinfool said:
I've been pushing for it. And I can tell you it's like pushing against a stonewall. The WBHA is a strong lobbyist.

I had a hard time getting a crossbow section on WVSportsman.net seems folk just want to argue about the subject instead serious debate. I've made several attempts to discuss the subject there.

I'm hoping to learn a little bit better ways to from Dan and others.

Chuck
Unfortunately, the opposition tends to want to argue rather than debating the issue. For the most part, it's usually the same selfish attitude. They don't want it, so nobody else should have one. Been through it all in NJ. Good luck! :(
 

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Armed Citizen
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Discussion Starter #5
Getting the WVDNR to create a survey like NJ did would be a huge first step. The few ranking officers at the WVDNR I spoke with said the crossbow issues were out lobbied by vertical organizations. What if the lobbying process could be bypassed with a survey like they did in NJ?

I'll propose that to the WVDNR and see what comes of it. I don't expect they will consider it. But I didn't expect I would have gotten the responses I did from them in the first place.
 

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Tough Organizations!

The WVBA and other state associations which I used to be a member of has been preaching propaganda against crossbows for over 30 years! Their excuse is that it will shorten the season and cut into "their" long season!

I quit their Association many years ago simply because they were against this or that and I could see a divide coming between outdoorsmen. Even back then I knew we all needed to be united and fighting one common enemy the anti-hunters/anti-gun people.

I just recently got my permit to hunt with a crossbow. I was not as fortunate as some others I know. My Dr. wouldn't just sign it even though he knew I deserved it. The reason he wouldn't sign it was simply the State requires testing to be done and he said he wasn't equipped to do the kind of tests they needed.

So he sent me to a Physical Therapy place and they tested me.

After which he signed my application for my class Y permit.

The bills for the Dr. visits and Physical Therapy tests for the Y crossbow permit here in WV. The Dr. charged me $230.00 for X-rays and exams the Physical Therapy place charged me $100.00 for the upper body strength tests they gave me.

So I paid out $330.00 for the Y permit! That's not accounting for my gas and time!

In most cases this is not covered by insurance because lets face it hunting isn't considered a necessity but a luxury!

Below is the reason my doctor felt the need for the physical therapy place to test me.

This is what the application for the Y permit from the WVDNR says in a direct quote,

"Applicant's impairment must meet at least one of the following criteria described in item 1 or 2:

1. Applicant has permanent and substantial loss of function in one or both hands and fails to meet the minimum standards of the upper extremity pinch, grip and nine-hole peg tests.

___ Yes ___ No

2. Applicant has permanent and substantial loss of function in one or both shoulders and fails to meet the standards of the standard shoulder strength test.

___ Yes ___ No"

Then the Doctor must sign this statement...

Pursuant to results obtained from administration of applicant's assessment test, I do hereby swear and affirm, under penalty of perjury, that I have personally examined the above named individual, and that by reason of his/her permanent disability, he/she is physically unable to use a conventional bow and arrow device, and would be deprived of the privilege of hunting if not permitted to hunt with a crossbow.



~HF~
 

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Armed Citizen
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Discussion Starter #7
Any rational and logical thinking person can see and understand it doesn't have to be that way. Full inclusion makes all this just go away.
Can anyone get me a figure as to how many class Y permits are in the field?
 

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How do you take into account the the special 'bow only' counties that have developed a reputation for Boone and Crockett deer (Logan, Mingo, McDowell, Wyoming) ?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
razorback5 said:
How do you take into account the the special 'bow only' counties that have developed a reputation for Boone and Crockett deer (Logan, Mingo, McDowell, Wyoming) ?
I am not sure I understand the question. Not sure who you were asking the question to either.
 

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Ohio has the real big bucks!

I take it into account because of no firearms at all what does that have to do with crossbow hunting!

The reason why they have large bucks is because of no firearm hunting not even a muzzleloader season.

This would not change even if crossbows were allowed. Just like the crossbow did not hurt Ohio's big bucks and/or any other state that has allowed there use in regular bow season.

~HF~
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Class Y permit holders.

There are 6,186 resident crossbow permit holders and 573 nonresident crossbow permit holders.
This is directly from:
Doris Pringle, Supervisor

WVDNR License Unit
 

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Well knock me over with a feather!

That many I wouldn't have thought there were that many! And you mean it hasn't decimated our deer herd yet! (sarcasm)

~HF~
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Let's look at the first number this gives me. If each of those hunters spent on average $100 to take the class Y permit test then think about this. It is costing the disabled hunter that is approved for the use of crossbows an additional $675,900 to hunt. And that does not include the money spent for the folks that failed the class Y permit test. Keep in mind this is doctor fees only.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Expense probing with Doris Pringle, Supervisor WVDNR License Unit via email got me this:

Sent:
Doris,
Thank you for providing me with the class Y crossbow permit information.
I have one more question for you but I am not sure if you are the person to answer it. If you are not the correct person to ask this question to then I would hope you can direct me to the proper party.
What is the estimated or actual expense it costs the hunters and or the state of West Virginia to issue, track, maintain and enforce these class Y permits. I am interested in the overall cost to keep this system in place and enforce it. I am sure someone has this in a budget report breakdown somewhere but I was unsure who that would be.

Response:
The biggest expense for handling the Class Y permits would be in the enforcement area, which would be a question you should ask the Law Enforcement Section. I would suggest you contact Jerry Jenkins at (304) 558-2784 regarding this matter. The Law Enforcement Section must also review the Class Y applications to see if the criteria is met for issuance.



I have one person who actually issues and maintains the dataset for the Class Y and Class Q permits, as well as the Disabled Veterans, Developmentally Disabled, and Lifetime license sales. I would estimate that about 20 percent of her time is spent on Class Y and Class Q permits a week.

Sincerely,

Doris Pringle

Supervisor

Well there is at least one person in the licensing department dedicating 10%-20% of their time to keep tabs on this system.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
If no one has contacted Jenkins yet I would hold off. I am waiting for Lt. Coleman to return from medical leave. Out of the few I have spoke with I think he is the one I want to deal with before going to the top.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I went the middle ground on this and just sent an email off to [email protected]. We will have to see what comes back. If I don't get a response in a couple of days I'll call.
 

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Mich DNR has just made it "A Little" easier to get a disabled permit to hunt with a crossbow, But I really believe it is just a smoke screen to pacify the michigan bow hunters assn.

You have to almost be dead to get a crossbow permit in Michigan. The Senate is supposed to vote on inclussion when they reconvene this month. But again I think the smoke screen will cause them to either not vote, or turn it down........

Rev.........
 

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crossbow permit sheet changed

Go look at wv dnr.com the permit sheet has changed. just to let you know , you now have to send your test results with the sheet .
 
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