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Elk - Broad head-Fixed or Mechanical?

8K views 35 replies 15 participants last post by  Huntersthompson 
#1 ·
Going on my first elk hunt this October. Hunting with my mission sub 1 xr. I'm debating using a fixed or mechanical broad head. Would really appreciate learning from your experience and possibly even your Bh recommendation.
 
#2 ·
I'm planning an elk hunt in Sept. 2021. I've been researching as much as possible and watching every youtube video of hunters who REGULARLY bow hunt elk. For every mechanical head I see on video or in a picture, I see at least 7 or more that are solid heavy fixed blade heads. I've seen Montecs, G5 Striker V2's. QAD Exodus, Slick Tricks and the infamous 2 bladed Grizzly Stick or 3 Rivers German steel head which are very expensive but so far every animal on video that I've seen taken ( moose, elk, kudu) this arrow acquired very deep penetration on thick, heavy hide, heavy muscled animals.
Good luck trying a few out. My choice will be 125 grain Slick Trick Grizz Tricks when I go ( shooting a compound on the trip) for heavier FOC and deep penetration.
 
#3 ·
Wicked Ridge 400 Thanks for your feedback. What I appreciate the most is finding out that I’m not totally crazy as I too have (and still am) searched the internet for all I can find. And, I too find that fixed blade wins the “most used” category. I wrestled with this thinking it may be folks not willing to change, to accept new technology but as you say, the videos and pics are of “taken animals.”So, I’m to the point that regardless of a persons motivation, most successful hunters are using fixed bh’s. I was encouraged to read that you had gotten to the same point.
Now the fun really begins with which one to choose? Again, you list a great selection and there are more. At the moment, I’m leaning towards G5 Striker V2's 125 gr or Excalibur’s 150 gr bolt cutters(maybe the replaceable blade model?).
I was also heavily into what arrow to shoot but based on others CBN feedback, am going to call Jerry at SAA and go with his advice.
As a new member of CBN I can attest to how valuable this resource is!
 
#5 ·
Wicked Ridge 400 Thanks for your feedback. What I appreciate the most is finding out that I’m not totally crazy as I too have (and still am) searched the internet for all I can find. And, I too find that fixed blade wins the “most used” category. I wrestled with this thinking it may be folks not willing to change, to accept new technology but as you say, the videos and pics are of “taken animals.”So, I’m to the point that regardless of a persons motivation, most successful hunters are using fixed bh’s. I was encouraged to read that you had gotten to the same point.
Now the fun really begins with which one to choose? Again, you list a great selection and there are more. At the moment, I’m leaning towards G5 Striker V2's 125 gr or Excalibur’s 150 gr bolt cutters(maybe the replaceable blade model?).
I was also heavily into what arrow to shoot but based on others CBN feedback, am going to call Jerry at SAA and go with his advice.
As a new member of CBN I can attest to how valuable this resource is!
Jerry at SSA made me a half dozen spynal tapp arrows for my crossbow. He asked what bow exactly that I’m shooting. He has the specs in his head for every darn bow out there and will rattle off exactly what will shoot best out of your crossbow. I let him build me 6 for my WickedRidge400. His arrows fly so well and shoot such tight groups it scary! You must shoot at different bullseyes because they group so tightly...if not, you’ll ruin expensive arrows for no reason!
If you do choose a mechanical broadband, I suggest the TruGlo titanium 4 blade mechanical. Small, aerodynamically superb and makes a HUGE hole in and out. Good luck!
 
#4 ·
I have taken 4 elk with a bow. First was with a G5 fixed and the last three were with a Rocket Steelhead 125. Doubt I will ever shoot anything with a fixed again unless using my Recurve. Last bull turned at the shot towards me and I hit him right behind the shoulder and it came out in front of the off hind leg. On big animals I like the smaller MECH BH vice the big 2".
 

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#11 ·
But, the TGs will make a bigger hole, right, Stew? Or do ya think they're too light for elk?

I think the TGs only come in 100gr? But maybe a 25 gr colar could be added? Sorry, just think'n out loud...
I'm old school when it comes to broadheads and bigger animals. Me personally; I would NOT shoot a mechanical for elk with a compound bow...only fixed blade heads. If your state or region allows crossbow hunting for elk, then I'd strongly consider the TruGlo Titanium 4 blade mechanical for elk and here's my opinion why:
I've shot more deer with the bow than shotgun and rifle combined. Never have I used a mechanical until yesterday and it was out of my crossbow. I believe it takes a combination of a certain amount of speed and KE to obtain the best performance from a mechanical head. I do not believe compound bows always produce that necessary combination because of lighter poundage draw weights and shorter draw lengths. If it wasn't for SEW convincing me to try the TG out of my Xbow, I never would have. Elk are big animals...way bigger than deer. the thicker hide, heavier muscle and bone offer resistance that a whitetail body doesn't. Now, Mr. Elk isn't always going to give you a 25 yard broadside shot while standing perfectly still. Quartering away at different angles changes the geometry of depth. Hitting a bit forward towards the bone changes the resistance.
Now let's talk distance. The farther the shot, the more the arrow is slowing down losing Speed thus losing KE. Archers are shooting 40-70 yard shots with the bow at elk depending on the location ( heavy cover vs open meadows) and would you trust a mechanical at that distance to open completely and pass through enough tissue on both sides to take out both lungs and exit for a better blood trail? Crossbow probably would but compound I doubt very much. Remember Murphy's Law of Mechanics " Anything mechanical can and WILL fail!" Imagine losing an elk to bad broadhead performance?
When I shoot a fixed blade, I KNOW what the blade will do. When shooting a mechanical, I'm HOPING the blade will function properly, especially as speed and energy are reduced as distance increases.
I would ONLY use a fixed blade BH on elk...I owe that to myself and the elk.
You can add a brass insert to the arrow to add weight if the head is only 100 grains. Personally, I'd choose a well made fixed blade that comes in 125 grains.
 
#9 ·
Read and saw good stuff about the Excalibur 150 gr bolt cutters but they ended up #2 for me against the G5 StrikerV2's 125 gr
The bolt cutter 150 gr was interesting. I ran the numbers and it offered a little less KE & MO, although more than required:
300 gr arrow
+BH 125 gr Bh KE. MO
Speed 335. 105.9. .632

+BH 150 gr Bh
Speed 310. 96.0. .619
 
#13 ·
I would NOT shoot at an elk with a mechanical BH. I’ve heard too many horror stories about mechanicals not doing well with penetration on elk. You might get lucky and shoot between ribs but why take a chance? I have taken 6 elk with a traditional bow and 3 with a crossbow. One was a 320” bull with full penetration. My favorite broad head is the Zwicky Eskimo. If you can get good arrow flight with a fixed head, there’s no reason to shoot mechanical., IMPO
 
#17 ·
Are mechanical broadheads legal where you are headed too? Does the state have a minimum arrow weight? How far of a shot are you willing to take?

I've seen success and failure with most types and brands of mechanical broadheads made. (I have not seen the Tru Glo, Sevr, Deadmeat, or Zeus used on any animals) When a shot goes bad, the only thing that will save the hunt is penetration.

Over the years I've made a few observations and will share them with you.

Design your arrows to get the most penetration. Elk require an arrow with an FOC greater than 18%. The heavier the arrow, the better. Something in the 465 to 520 gr. range seems to be a good. I would suggest this being the minimum weight range.

When a broadhead bends or breaks, you don't get penetration. Look for a Titanium or Steel ferrule. When striking bone, a 2 blade will normally out penetrate a multi-blade broadhead if both are the same diameter. Smaller diameter will penetrate deeper than a large diameter.

That Striker V-2 you mentioned is a good blade. Steel Force Phat Head's with the steel ferrule are one of the toughest. Broadheads styled like German Kinetics, Iron Will, Day Six Evo and Bone are all good. Day Six Evo being the best in my opinion. Magnus makes some good heads as well. All depends on your budget.

It all boils down to what works best for your setup. Penetration is probably the most important element. But it must be delivered accurately. :)

Hope this helps! :)
 
#18 · (Edited)
Thanks, Yes this is very helpful!
It’s been quite a learning journey since I first posted my question. The information shared on this site, like yours, has been invaluable. Attaining a “basic” understanding of KE, Momentum, Speed, Penetration has been an eye opener.
I now have a scale, arrow spinner, arrow balance edge... and having fun! I’ve come a long way in feeling good about my elk hunting arrow setup and to date have landed here:
Mission xr sub-1 bow
19” 430 gr arrow - total weight
125 gr QAD Exodus full blade Bh
19% FoS
386 FPS
143 KE
.74 slugs - momentum
(I’m using Archery Calculator site to calculate KE and Momentum).
Just received my new target, and starting to site in....
 
#24 ·
Will that calculator let you run these numbers ? :
1.) Add 10 gr to your broadhead weight (I'm thinking screwing a 10 gr weight behind the tip insert)
2.) Add 20 gr to your broadhead weight (Same as above)
3.) Just using a 150 gr broadhead

Just curious on how the momentum would change. Right now your setup is real close to the momentum of a 70# vertical bow shooting a 700 gr broadhead. Typically that works very well.

A word of understanding. I'm not trying to tell you what to do, just making suggestions based on experience. I would like to see just a little more on the momentum numbers side. Not that yours won't work, but striving for that little extra edge, by getting the most penetration. Trying to drop the critter sooner if something goes wrong with the shot.

Tracking elk is generally a lot harder than tracking a deer. That heavy hide, muscles, and body fat can plug a hole quickly. Then throw in the long hair that acts like a sponge, sucking up all the blood. The chest cavity alone can hold most of the elk's blood without leaking a drop.

Want you to have a successful and enjoyable hunt !
 
#21 ·
This string of info. has raised an interesting question for me and, from what I read on line, for others as well. It stems around the weight vs speed vs KE vs momentum discussion. Based on the relationships that as arrow weight increases, speed decreases, while KE and momentum increase... what is the arrow “sweet spot” for elk hunting with a crossbow?
My current arrow build with my sub-1 xr shoots a :
•430 gr arrow (125 gr bh and 19% FoC) at 386 FPS with a 143 KE and .74 MO. .
To me... at face value, this seems very well configured to kill an elk effectively (assuming a well placed shot,etc). However, you can read almost everywhere you look that this 430 gr arrow is too light, that a 460 gr to 500gr arrow weight is recommended. Curious as to why that might be, I ran some #’s and...
•A 460 gr arrow (+7%) drops speed to 377 fps(-2%), increase KE to 145(+2%) and MO to .77(+4%).
•A 500 gr. arrow (+16%) drops speed to 365 fps (-5%), increase KE to 148(+3.5%) and MO to .80(+8%).
Again, I’m new to all of this but “seems” to me anyone of these setups gets the job done. The speed FPS is plenty in all cases. I see how the weight increase improves the MO and hopefully penetration (w/sharp, strong, coc Bh). However, I don’t know if more weight, more KE, more MO is always better... are there diminishing returns?

Is it simply a matter of shooting accurately, the heaviest arrow your bow will send flat out to 60yds(my restriction)?

Again, really interested in a discussion on what is the elk arrow setup “sweet spot” and why?
 
#22 ·
First off, I admire your quest for information. It can only make you a better hunter!

I've shot a small fortune in arrows and broadheads into elk bones. I observed a threshold at which the bones would shatter. Not just be cut, or break, but actually shatter. This normally occurred in the 460 - 500 gr. total arrow weight. The slight trade off in speed loss is out weighed by the penetration potential one could gain.

Try this, hold a volley ball out at waist high, drop it on you toe. Now do the same test using a bowling ball. Same principle applies to your arrow set up. OK, might be a bad example, but think about it.

To me, each bow has its own "sweet spot". When you develop an arrow that will sink deeply, quietly, and with minimal reverberation into your target butt, you will have found it. Can't tell you how to achieve it without a lot of testing. Others on this forum probably can provide more knowledge.

Hope others will jump in, this is a great topic! :)
 
#23 ·
I dont hunt elk but I have hunted buffalo. I did my due diligence and selected a fixed head which worked fine. IMO there are some expandables that I would feel very comfortable with but its a list of a few. Less than a few actually.
Fixed, there is no questions. Silver flame.
 
#25 ·
I asked in an earlier post if mechanical broadheads were legal where you are going. Somewhere I think you said you were going to Idaho. To my knowledge, Idaho still does not allow mechanical broadheads for elk. Maybe someone can confirm this, my info is over a year old.
 
#26 · (Edited)
I have killed 20+elk with a bow and almost all mechanical heads. Have seen many more also killed with mechanicals. Use a 400 grain plus arrow and match the broadhead to your set up. If you are shooting 50 to 60 pound vertical bow don't shoot a 3" mechanical. Go to a fixed blade head for elk. Shoot the fixed blade and make sure your set up likes the one you picked. The mechanicals as a rule fly better out of most setups. THE REAL KEY is shot placement. You need to hit both lungs. Don't take marginal shots. You can shoot a piece of rebar with a double bit ax on the front and put a Rhode Island Red chicken on the back to steer it ;)and if you hit him in the ass guess what no elk.:( I shoot Vortex heads.
 
#28 ·
Well thanks to Dang It’s input, Ive come a long way in having confidence in my current elk arrow set up.
First of all he’s correct in that mechanical bh’s are not legal in Idaho. That settled that issue.
From there I worked with his recommendations of a heavier arrow and foc & penetration mo recommendations, all considering the speed drop experienced with my bow.
After several iterations, I’ve come to a:
•Total Weight of 478 gr’s
•FPS at 372
•19% FoC
•147 KE
•79 slugs Momentum
I got there with a 300 gr arrow, a 125 gr Bh & adding a 50 gr gold tip behind the insert weight.
I’m sighted in at 20 yds using the scope turrets and at 60 yds using the scope speed adjustment.
I’ve built up 6 arrows with 6 more to come and now it’s practice, practice, practice!
Really appreciate the input!
 
#29 ·
Trinity
That is correct, NO MECHANICALS IN IDAHO. I have used 125 gn Thunderheads for 30+ years and have always had good penetration. They fly good out to my self imposed limit of 45 yards. I purchased a large number of O-rings and replacement blades in the beginning and have stayed with them because they have worked and because I am cheeeeeep. My hunting partner now uses Toxic broadheads and is very happy with their flight. If you know a bunch of bow hunters in your area that will let you try their broadheads, try them and find the one that flys best for you . Good Luck on your Idaho hunt and don't mind the wolves. I carry a Ruger SP101 in .357. Bill
 
#30 ·
willyC93... I’m currently shooting 125 gr QAD exodus, full blade. I learned Idaho also doesn’t allow swept blade Bh’s. I watched enough video testing that attested to their blade toughness(.040 thick), penetration and accuracy to cause me to purchase a three pack and package of replacement blades. I’m shooting them at 40 yds and have a 1.25” poi spread Vs my field point baseline of .75” poi spread (shooting off a tri-stick).
I have also ordered a three pack of 125 gr Annihilator Bh’s. I’m intrigued by the design and testing I’ve seen on these. I posted a video on the Bh forum if you’re interested.
Thanks for the wolf heads up; it never crossed my mind- bears did though!
 
#31 ·
Broadheads are a very personal choice and everyone has their favorites. In my 4th decade as a worldwide bowhunter and also been crossbow hunting since 2013. For compounds I strongly prefer a rugged fixed blade, such as a QAD Exodus. There are just fewer things that can go wrong and penetration is consistent. Used mechanicals successfully and they’ve drastically improved over the years. When everything goes as planned today’s mechanicals create absolutely lethal damage, but when they fail it is usually just as catastrophic. To illustrate, I just used a new expandable that was sold to me on near-perfect flight and a 2+ inch cut. It flew exactly as my field points did. But, when I used it on a Desert Muley Hunt in Sonora in December I only got 6 inches of penetration from a perfect quartering-away shot. Let him alone for 3-4 hours and after 250 yards of tracking and several discussions finally found the buck. So, I prefer fixed blades for compounds.

The massive increases in velocity and energy created by Crossbows somewhat changes this equation for me. While I still prefer a fixed blade in most situations, like my Excalibur Matrix and a QAD 125, original GK 125, or Excalibur Boltcutters, but they just won’t stabilize in my Scorpyd Aculeus (too much velocity). I’ve used Rage Hypodermics out of my Scorpyd with consistently devastating results on everything from Whitetails and big Black Bears through super-tough critters like Kudu and Gemsbok. The CB generates a lot more energy to take full advantage of the wide-cut. I also use 22 inch bolts both to better stabilize flights and to maximize momentum.

Just another note - I tend to not take KE and momentum calculations as gospel on how an arrow will perform on game. There are many other factors in play. A great example is “on paper” a .22-250 generates more energy than a 45-70 in standard loads. But I know which one I’d prefer to have in my hands if facing a Brown Bear in close quarters.

My 2 cents
 
#32 ·
Its good to read the continued support for QAD Exodus. It’s from this forum that I landed on choosing it for my Idaho elk hunt this Fall.
I imagine most of you experienced hunters know this but it seems to be worth sharing for the newer folks, like myself. As is mentioned above, the velocity of a crossbow may be one of other criteria that impacts your choice of Bh type; fixed or mechanical. I learned after choosing QAD Exodus that even within that brand, they offer a choice of Standard or Crossbow. I found this out as when I received my first order, they came it a white package with the “standard” box checked on the package. I was curious as there was also a “crossbow” box available that was not checked and I had selected Crossbow when I ordered. So, I called QAD and was told that the ferrules and blades (.040) for both were the same BUT the washer that holds the blades to the ferrule and aligns with the arrow shaft when mounted, IS A LARGER DIAMETER for the crossbow. I was told crossbow arrows are a larger dia. and this larger washer allows for a more aerodynamic fit. So, QAD sent me a package of the larger, correct size washers. I also ordered another package of crossbow bh’s. This 2nd order however, came in a Black package marked “Crossbow” , with larger washers.
Always learning.... Material property Auto part
 
#35 ·
I'm a believer in Mechanical heads but they are not all the same. I hesitate to use them on animals bigger than deer. Those with strong blades and cutting widths under 2" I think are best suited. I found it interesting though that my Safari Outfitter only allows fixed blade broadheads. They don't even specify which ones. You can get a crappy fixed BH too. I would hedge my bets and use a strong fixed head for an Elk as long as they fly right.
 
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