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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bought the Firenock pulleys and screws from a guy earlier this year, and then ordered a string and cable set from GAS. The cables came 19 5/8” - Firenock spec was 19 3/8” and when installed they ended up way below the bottom timing dot and the 10.5” ATA was right at 10” - 1st pic.

I called GAS and said Firenock says the R9 spec is 20 1/8” which “should be” the same as the R10. They sent a replacement set but the loops were really long and the thick part of the end serving ended up on top of the orange pulley groove instead of nestling in it. When I let the press down, one of the bunched up servings slipped off and tore the serving loose - 2nd and 3rd pics.

So I called GAS and they sent another 20 1/8” set with short loops that worked fine - except they started to stretch just sitting in the R10. So I added a few twists which brought the ATA back to 10.5” but they continued to stretch more. So I added another twist or two and shorten them to just over 20”.

But they seem to stretch a bit more over time according to the movement on my timing dots. So I pulled them off and checked them on my string length checker and they had stretched back out to almost 20 1/4”. I also notice serving separation on both end servings on both cables (4 places) right where they bend around the brass pulleys. But with a cable twisted CW with CW applied serving, the serving will LOOSEN when twists are added (same with CCW serving on a CCW twisted string) - 4th pic.

Contacted GAS again and they sent a special set of cables at 19 15/16” - my spec - to allow for stretch - BUT - they came with long loops again this time. I put them on but I’m not confident those thick bunched up end servings are going to hold up very well sitting on top of those narrow orange pulley grooves - 6th pic. I expect some cutting/tearing in the future - we’ll see. The ATA was right at 10 1/4”.

So I cocked the R10 and let it set for several hours and did the several times. I could see the cables were stretching slightly as they were starting to move off the rear timing dot. Over time the ATA had moved an 1/8” to 10 3/8” now. So I kept cocking it very so often and even shot it a few times as well.

There seems to be two philosophies on these cables I’m pretty sure Dorge prefers unserved loops with the rest of cable served the entire length. GAS and Vital Limits prefer served loops with short sections of two unserved areas between the Firenock pulleys and the brass anchor pulleys.

I’m in the Dorge camp on this one. The Ravin 4 cable system has unserved loops that attach to the cam pegs so why do the 2 cable system need the loops served? GAS says with 2 unserved ends the cable will “creep”. The end serving that terminates at the bottom of the loop has to trap 2 sections of threads and 4 loop serving coils which makes for a thick bunched up mess - 6th pic below.

If the loops are unserved, then the end serving would look like the ends of a string’s center serving and laying nicely in the orange pulley groove imo. And Dorge’s version of the entire cable served except for the loops, might prevent the serving from separating at the pinch point around the brass pulleys - 7th pic below.

I like the 2 pulley system even though it looks like I lost 9 fps over the 4 cable system. There does seem to be less shock and awe when the string hits the stops. I still have the Ravin factory string on and see no need to put the new GAS string on until necessary.

That’s my story and I’m sticking with it - ymmv. I hope the pics are in order. Not bashing anyone, just quantifying the events as they happened on this endeavor.

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Stock Ravin ... accessories are looking better and better ...lol:unsure::rolleyes: You have far more patience than I do brother. ;)
 

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When I removed the cables for the 2 pulley system off of my r26 I had slight cable separation where the cables ran through the small pulleys also. Very minimal but they were separated. No concern really. I think they should be serving the cable end loops with string material. That would keep the bulk down.

That system definitely absorbs the shock much better.

I am back to working with the factory cables and string. They seem much better than the original set and haven't moved yet. I'm sure they will stretch. We will see over time.
 

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Some of the new model R10s riser screws up front were like the R15 spec requiring a 20 1/8 cable.. The prior Ravin Spec cables are 19 5/8 . Sometimes they will favor a bottom do or be right over top of it, this is a geometry difference becasue the cable comes off the side of the brass post vs the center , so it will be off set some. If I had to guess you have a newer model R10.

The unserved loop or what is called a "tagged out loop" is an easier way to make a loop.Eric as doing the loops like this for Firenock when he did the cables that way per request. The fully served loop is a stronger system. Eric would be able to explain the details better than me.

On installation if some use the method of "pulling the loop " through if not careful you can cut the fibers. I have had many , many 4 cable sets that I sold to installers come back with torn fibers. Since the 2 cable system running on 2 seasons with bows in fully served loops I have had ZERO issues of torn loop fibers.

The best serving metarial that has been holding up the best in the cables has been angel majesty.
 

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I have learned over the years, 32 of them I think it is now. That 90% of the time Archery mods are just means for someone else to make a buck. More times then not it ends up taking you back wards in one way or another.
Almost always hurts you at the time of resale because folks that know what thier doing want the bow back to how it was from the factory, or skip over that bow all together. I admit that I
thought about this mod a few times then moved on.

Custom arrows and some times strings are as far as I go anymore
 

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For me the small pullys causing the separation is the main factor of me not using that system now. I installed them both ways and had the same results, for me. Hope yours goes better TP.

Take care and good luck this season.
MC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Some people have too much time on their hands.
It is my time though.


On installation if some use the method of "pulling the loop " through if not careful you can cut the fibers. I have had many , many 4 cable sets that I sold to installers come back with torn fibers. Since the 2 cable system running on 2 seasons with bows in fully served loops I have had ZERO issues of torn loop fibers.
While I was waiting for the 4th set of GAS cables, I decided to put the factory 4 cables back on. I think it was Robert that used a piece of serving to pull the factory cables thru, so I took some thread and wrapped it around a piece of plastic tubing as a pull thru.

I slobbered a bit of Trident silicone on the unserved section which kept the threads sort of packed together and a bit on the leading end serving - pulled thru the orange pulley and cam slot slick as snot.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'm not making anything difficult Bill, I would just like to see things works as intended. I use a Ravin press but I have the R10 standing on it's nose in a frame I made for it - easy to access both sides.

I do like the concept of the 2 cable system, I think it has less vibration than the 4 cable system and might provide a longer life on all the components. My issue with the last 4th GAS cable was they didn't build them the way I asked - I wanted them twisted a specific way and served a specific way - they did not do that - I even asked Eric for that and didn't get it.

I have a Deathstalker and really like that crossbow. I bought the R10 as a project and I enjoy playing with it. For whatever reason some people seem to think that shouldn't be done. I think there were some changes made in the R10 as VL indicated - Firenock's specified cable length is an example. If you recall, your loose stock fix wouldn't work on my R10 - something changed.

If I see any separation on the GAS cable around the brass pulleys, I'll call Archery Shack and see if they'll make a set of cables the way I ask them to be built.

Thanks.
 

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I'm not making anything difficult Bill, I would just like to see things works as intended. I use a Ravin press but I have the R10 standing on it's nose in a frame I made for it - easy to access both sides.

I do like the concept of the 2 cable system, I think it has less vibration than the 4 cable system and might provide a longer life on all the components. My issue with the last 4th GAS cable was they didn't build them the way I asked - I wanted them twisted a specific way and served a specific way - they did not do that - I even asked Eric for that and didn't get it.

I have a Deathstalker and really like that crossbow. I bought the R10 as a project and I enjoy playing with it. For whatever reason some people seem to think that shouldn't be done. I think there were some changes made in the R10 as VL indicated - Firenock's specified cable length is an example. If you recall, your loose stock fix wouldn't work on my R10 - something changed.

If I see any separation on the GAS cable around the brass pulleys, I'll call Archery Shack and see if they'll make a set of cables the way I ask them to be built.

Thanks.
Bear in mind you are asking them to be built outside of their normal build process. You might have better luck getting a small builder to do this for you, although AS seems to be willing to try things.
 

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Does anyone know how many strands and what material Firenock recommends for the cables? Seems most builders used 18 strands of 452x for the 4 cable system.
 

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Bigbird what I'm worried about after looking at that video with archery shack , is the (no stretch) from what I'm being told by certain people in the industry, is especially with the 29x it needs to have some stretch and some give or you could blow out your limb pockets. That's what they're seeing coming back to them with repairs. Do you agree?
 

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Just about every string maker I've dealt with will have pre stretched strings. Anyone who "does not" and claims that the strings need to stretch is an excuse for not knowing what they are doing. what they are really saying is they skipped that part and not only will your thread move up front but they will be prone to move all the time..

Now, so get "creep" confused with stretch.. If you take a braided rope put tension on it then lack the rope then tense the rope back up you will likley have "creep" , the space or voids inbetween the strands till pressure work them tighter..
 

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Does anyone know how many strands and what material Firenock recommends for the cables? Seems most builders used 18 strands of 452x for the 4 cable system.

I forget the count and I could be wrong but Firenock I beilive uses "natural" undyed fibers which could up the strand count some.
 

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Is Archery Shack a Vendor here??
I go with the better vendor. Being a Vendor here means very little. If you think your 100-150$ a month Means anything to Carbon Media or Vertical scope your dreaming they own about 1000 forums. They make their money from adds on the forums Ect.
 

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Bigbird what I'm worried about after looking at that video with archery shack , is the (no stretch) from what I'm being told by certain people in the industry, is especially with the 29x it needs to have some stretch and some give or you could blow out your limb pockets. That's what they're seeing coming back to them with repairs. Do you agree?
Bowmanmt,
I'd say if your Ravin R29X strings are not giving you any trouble other than center serving issues, you should stick with them if you're concerned about elasticity.
Otherwise, you might call Archery Shack and talk to them about this subject.
 
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