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I drive a Subaru......
They're not a sponsor here.
Sue me.

It just could be that some vendors are liked, and some seem to be delicate and stir up trouble quite often.
Exactly ... BigBird mentioning Archery Shack is no different than me mentioning Cabelas, Bass Pro, Lancaster or any other outfit who is a direct competitor of those who pay to be sponsors here. Why can I point out a great sale at MidwayUSA or Sportsmansguide.com and not be able to say Archery Shack strings are great? Back a decade ago I abandoned CBN over that kind of petty censorship.

And, I gotta tellyas, it irks me when people accuse others of getting freebies to hawk products. Unless you KNOW, unless you have proof, unless someone states that they received a complimentary XYZ, it's just rude to make unsubstantiated imputations. In this age of woke-ism and "guilt by accusation," it's irresponsible. You have "suspicions?" Keep them to yourself unless you have proof.

Reminds me of when I was in Union steel erecting. Key foreman and key workers got extra money and perks. You NEVER went to the boss and said Joe is getting $150.00 a week cash, plus gas & tolls, so I want it too. You just kept your mouth shut and made your own "deal." His deal was HIS deal, never mention it. Your deal is YOUR deal. There's unwritten rules ...lol
 

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I was the one who suggested to Bigbird that AS strings were better then gas. So he ordered from them do to the size of the center serving working better with the Ravin factory nock. And for the record I have talked to Jeromy exactly one time Via facebook messenger and paid full price for my strings and cables which were 40 less thas Gas and I had them in 1 week from the day I ordered them... Your talking nonsense and trying to ruin a guys reputation. I will say it again bigbird is an honorable man..
And that is why VL will never got any business from a lot of us on the forum. He bashes members and competitors way too much.
 

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Vendor
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well he is right about one thing. IMO U nocks are dangerous for usage on a 29x. to hard and brittle. To much lateral movement, no matter what size serving. I tried, GAS strings co. tried. Its just not the same design as the Ravin nock.

Dangerouse.. LOL! NOT Supported by any fact..
 

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And that is why VL will never got any business from a lot of us on the forum. He bashes members and competitors way too much.

You have it mistaken.. Members on here don't like when they are proven wrong or asked a question they can''t provide an answer to, then those members call it "bashing". 1 recent example is one of the members here claims U nock is dangerous although he hasn't named 1 example of an injury cause from a U nock.,, NOT 1.. And for some reason , some appear to agree with the U nock danger "myth" . When I point that out I supposed some would think that is "bashing", but I call bias and fallacy at that.. They will believe the suspicions before the fact.

In the past 2 weeks I probably sold about $1,000 in arrow builds from shooters who often do not engage or rarely do in comments on CBN but read through them. If I wasn't selling on here I would not have paid the $750 round 2 in a row. I could easliy just go on a few more of the facebook crossbow groups and spend more time there.
 

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Wow,
Looks like I stirred up a hornets nest. Just to set the record straight, here's my history with both Archery Shack and GAS strings:
1. I did in fact work with Jeremy Cheek a few years ago to help him fine tune a set of strings for Ravins. I was just the tester and provided feedback and suggestions for improvement.
For that effort, I did receive free strings initially. However, once others like Riflenut got involved to help Jeremy with the more powerful Ravins like the R29, I decided to pay for AS strings after that.

2. Even though my AS strings were wearing very well on my R10, I was experiencing a little stretch over time and discovered my ATA had increased from 10-1/2" to 10-5/8" over last summer.

3. I then contacted Eric Griggs with GAS and offered to buy a set from him to try. He graciously said he would send me a couple of sets free of charge if I would provide some feedback on fit.

4. We worked through a couple of iterations and I had a set on both my R9 and R10 that I was comfortable with But I had to reserve the center serving on both sets to prevent lateral nock travel.
However, I was disappointed that the feedback I was providing was evidently not being heeded because others contacted me and had the same problems not only with the center serving but with the fit.

5. At this point, I was ready to go back to Archery Shack anyway but when several others like WWB informed me that were liking AS strings better and another fine gentleman pointed me to Jeremy's R10 video, I decided to order a new set of strings from Archery Shack which I paid for.

Bottom Line: Both GAS and Archery Shack can make a great set of strings for Ravins but I felt I needed to try both for a while before I could determine which I preferred. Your findings might be different and that's fine because after all, it's your money and not mine.
 

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Exactly ... BigBird mentioning Archery Shack is no different than me mentioning Cabelas, Bass Pro, Lancaster or any other outfit who is a direct competitor of those who pay to be sponsors here. Why can I point out a great sale at MidwayUSA or Sportsmansguide.com and not be able to say Archery Shack strings are great? Back a decade ago I abandoned CBN over that kind of petty censorship.

And, I gotta tellyas, it irks me when people accuse others of getting freebies to hawk products. Unless you KNOW, unless you have proof, unless someone states that they received a complimentary XYZ, it's just rude to make unsubstantiated imputations. In this age of woke-ism and "guilt by accusation," it's irresponsible. You have "suspicions?" Keep them to yourself unless you have proof.

Reminds me of when I was in Union steel erecting. Key foreman and key workers got extra money and perks. You NEVER went to the boss and said Joe is getting $150.00 a week cash, plus gas & tolls, so I want it too. You just kept your mouth shut and made your own "deal." His deal was HIS deal, never mention it. Your deal is YOUR deal. There's unwritten rules ...lol
Duke is on point again.
 

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Wow,
Looks like I stirred up a hornets nest. Just to set the record straight, here's my history with both Archery Shack and GAS strings:
1. I did in fact work with Jeremy Cheek a few years ago to help him fine tune a set of strings for Ravins. I was just the tester and provided feedback and suggestions for improvement.
For that effort, I did receive free strings initially. However, once others like Riflenut got involved to help Jeremy with the more powerful Ravins like the R29, I decided to pay for AS strings after that.

2. Even though my AS strings were wearing very well on my R10, I was experiencing a little stretch over time and discovered my ATA had increased from 10-1/2" to 10-5/8" over last summer.

3. I then contacted Eric Griggs with GAS and offered to buy a set from him to try. He graciously said he would send me a couple of sets free of charge if I would provide some feedback on fit.

4. We worked through a couple of iterations and I had a set on both my R9 and R10 that I was comfortable with But I had to reserve the center serving on both sets to prevent lateral nock travel.
However, I was disappointed that the feedback I was providing was evidently not being heeded because others contacted me and had the same problems not only with the center serving but with the fit.

5. At this point, I was ready to go back to Archery Shack anyway but when several others like WWB informed me that were liking AS strings better and another fine gentleman pointed me to Jeremy's R10 video, I decided to order a new set of strings from Archery Shack which I paid for.

Bottom Line: Both GAS and Archery Shack can make a great set of strings for Ravins but I felt I needed to try both for a while before I could determine which I preferred. Your findings might be different and that's fine because after all, it's your money and not mine.

Seems that the feedback you were getting was based on people who didn't know what nock went with what serving spec. Actually I do not recall a serving spec ever being mentioned.. Apparently " Super hard " and/or "tight fit" is a spec to some, just saying..

Doing freebees can bite a company in the hind end..Saw it happen numbrouse time.. Once the person doesn't supply the "gift" anymore the shooter will tend to drift off taking advantage of the next discounted or free thing from another and then all of a sudden the product before is not as good. And CBN is probably the last place to offer any kind of freebee in..
 

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Exactly ... BigBird mentioning Archery Shack is no different than me mentioning Cabelas, Bass Pro, Lancaster or any other outfit who is a direct competitor of those who pay to be sponsors here. Why can I point out a great sale at MidwayUSA or Sportsmansguide.com and not be able to say Archery Shack strings are great? Back a decade ago I abandoned CBN over that kind of petty censorship.

And, I gotta tellyas, it irks me when people accuse others of getting freebies to hawk products. Unless you KNOW, unless you have proof, unless someone states that they received a complimentary XYZ, it's just rude to make unsubstantiated imputations. In this age of woke-ism and "guilt by accusation," it's irresponsible. You have "suspicions?" Keep them to yourself unless you have proof.

Reminds me of when I was in Union steel erecting. Key foreman and key workers got extra money and perks. You NEVER went to the boss and said Joe is getting $150.00 a week cash, plus gas & tolls, so I want it too. You just kept your mouth shut and made your own "deal." His deal was HIS deal, never mention it. Your deal is YOUR deal. There's unwritten rules ...lol

Big bird has AS in his sig, thats an add according to CBN of a non vendor on top of his own promotions.. Are your sigs all vendors?

Case in point Dorge from Firenock had my Vital Limits in his sig and apparently was restricted or banned from CBN.. According to the logic by some here that shouldn't of happened..

CBN plays favorites, inclduing some of it's memebrs making excuses for non vendors who appear to not be able to pinch 2 nickles for a vendor spot, they are so good that they can't afford one?
 

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Big bird has AS in his sig, thats an add according to CBN of a non vendor on top of his own promotions.. Are your sigs all vendors?

Case in point Dorge from Firenock had my Vital Limits in his sig and apparently was restricted or banned from CBN.. According to the logic by some here that shouldn't of happened..

CBN plays favorites, inclduing some of it's memebrs making excuses for non vendors who appear to not be able to pinch 2 nickles for a vendor spot, they are so good that they can't afford one?
Why not call your account executive at Verticalscope and work out the issue with Dorge? In case you don't have one, here's the guy I worked with last fall.

Greg Maleszyk
Account Executive
Carbon Media Group (Verticalscope, Inc.)
Office. (416) 640-5949
Mobile: 646-902-6762
Email. [email protected]
 

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Why not call your account executive at Verticalscope and work out the issue with Dorge? In case you don't have one, here's the guy I worked with last fall.

Greg Maleszyk
Account Executive
Carbon Media Group (Verticalscope, Inc.)
Office. (416) 640-5949
Mobile: 646-902-6762
Email. [email protected]
Greg is my rep. I do believe I told him.. Nothing was done.. Also interesting that I have had messages about products and they were locked out.. So there is something fishy going on behind the curtain..
 

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Big bird has AS in his sig, thats an add according to CBN of a non vendor on top of his own promotions.. Are your sigs all vendors?

Case in point Dorge from Firenock had my Vital Limits in his sig and apparently was restricted or banned from CBN.. According to the logic by some here that shouldn't of happened..

CBN plays favorites, inclduing some of it's memebrs making excuses for non vendors who appear to not be able to pinch 2 nickles for a vendor spot, they are so good that they can't afford one?
CBN ... has the best moderators and administrators of any forum I have ever visited. They're the best because they use common sense. They use "the smell test," if it smells okay, it is okay. EXACTLY what gets lost when a system, which has to be designed to technically address the worst offenders and worst offenses, is rigidly enforced. If you use blanket rigid regulating, with no flexibility you stifle discourse, creativity, and freedom of expression. you wind up with no membership and no revenues. People flee oppression.

The beauty of CBN moderators is that they don't let those self appointed Forum Police types run roughshod over the membership by waving rules in our faces like some holier than thou preacher waving his bible at sinners. What they can't accomplish in a normal debate, discussion or argument they want to gain control by having a thorough technical knowledge of the written "rules." What they fail to acknowledge is life is 90% unwritten rules and 10% system rules. I've found that those Guardians of the Forum types either quickly assimilate into the general population when they see the moderators aren't going to be their weapon and become good contributors; or drift off somewhere else when they see that ego boosting act won't fly around here.
202113
 

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Greg is my rep. I do believe I told him.. Nothing was done.. Also interesting that I have had messages about products and they were locked out.. So there is something fishy going on behind the curtain..
Well, vote with your money if you think things are inconsistent. Maybe the prospect of losing a customer would be enough.
 

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CBN ... has the best moderators and administrators of any forum I have ever visited. They're the best because they use common sense. They use "the smell test," if it smells okay, it is okay. EXACTLY what gets lost when a system, which has to be designed to technically address the worst offenders and worst offenses, is rigidly enforced. If you use blanket rigid regulating, with no flexibility you stifle discourse, creativity, and freedom of expression. you wind up with no membership and no revenues. People flee oppression.

The beauty of CBN moderators is that they don't let those self appointed Forum Police types run roughshod over the membership by waving rules in our faces like some holier than thou preacher waving his bible at sinners. What they can't accomplish in a normal debate, discussion or argument they want to gain control by having a thorough technical knowledge of the written "rules." What they fail to acknowledge is life is 90% unwritten rules and 10% system rules. I've found that those Guardians of the Forum types either quickly assimilate into the general population when they see the moderators aren't going to be their weapon and become good contributors; or drift off somewhere else when they see that ego boosting act won't fly around here.
View attachment 202113

CBN should make the rules different then.. They expiclty allow sig of non vendors like some of what you seem to have yet if a person has my sig they restrict them. That's common sense., .. And they lock out my messages..
 

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CBN should make the rules different then.. They expiclty allow sig of non vendors like some of what you seem to have yet if a person has my sig they restrict them. That's common sense., .. And they lock out my messages..
"Lockout ... your messages?" ... "Oh, there's a surprise!"...lol 😂 ;) Try getting along with people instead of challenging and being so confrontational.:)
 

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Crossbow Nut
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CBN should make the rules different then.. They expiclty allow sig of non vendors like some of what you seem to have yet if a person has my sig they restrict them. That's common sense., .. And they lock out my messages..
MAYBE, just MAYBE "your" threads are locked out because they are protecting YOU from what OTHERS are saying. Why does it have to be all about you? Grab a paper sack and take slow, deep breaths.
 

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Tim,

I'm sorry and not trying to be an arse, but YOU ARE WRONG on this one! The direction of serving is clockwise or "right twist" for a reason. We match the serving with the twist. I've been doing this for over 30 years and I'm probably considered one of the top industry experts on the topic of fibers and bowstrings. I understand that the below makes sense to you, but you are incorrect here. If the serving went the opposite direction as you requested, the cable itself would be very soft, flimsy and it would separate almost instantly.

I'm sorry that our strings didn't work out for you and meet your expectations (cables anyway, you never even tried the string).

1. We sent you what Firenock had as the correct length spec. You had something different going on with your model. Not our fault, but we sent you new cables.
2. You didn't like the loop length of our cables. Those are standard and set by the people that test these on a regular basis. We didn't create that spec, but we did test it and I saw no issues.
3. We sent you a third set with the custom loop spec you wanted. The cables elongated as that's what a Ravin 2-cable system IS GOING TO DO and thus why we have an open area to twist them up. They also separated at the brass pulleys. This was a concern I had from the very beginning with this system and about the only thing we have had to warranty on those. Some seem to have issues and others have none. I'm not sure on the reason, but it's really not a quality/workmanship issue on our end, more nature of the beast on that system. You weren't happy with this or that answer, so we sent you yet another set of cables.
4. The 4th set was made to your exact "custom" requests in regards to length, but I did tell you when you ordered them that we weren't going to twist them the opposite direction for you.
5. Here's where we are today.....

From a customer service standpoint, we have bent over backwards for you. Color samples. Multiple CBN messages back and forth, emails back and forth, multiple phone calls with Kelsey in our office, multiple phone calls with Jake in our office and phone Calls and emails with me. I am positive that there is nothing we could do at this point to make you happy. We aren't going to completely deviate from our string building process per your request. We made you custom loops and custom lengths. We did all of this in an attempt to make sure the customer was taken care of and happy in the end. All of this at our expense. We clearly lost this battle, but I am confident that we did everything we could. Again, my apologies that we couldn't meet your expectations.

GAS told me they’re set up for CW serving so I asked the string be twisted CCW so if I had to add twists in the future due to stretch, it would tighten the serving rather than loosen it. It came CW on CW.

My concern was serving separation around the brass pulley pinch point - again.
 

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MAYBE, just MAYBE "your" threads are locked out because they are protecting YOU from what OTHERS are saying. Why does it have to be all about you? Grab a paper sack and take slow, deep breaths.

I'm not talking about my treads being locked out, I'm talking about when some messages me for strings or other info they lock me out of the message. It's as if my personal messages are getting supervised..
 

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MAYBE, just MAYBE "your" threads are locked out because they are protecting YOU from what OTHERS are saying. Why does it have to be all about you? Grab a paper sack and take slow, deep breaths.

I may buy addtional adds, banner etc on CBN, but not as long as I see favorites being played..
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