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Discussion Starter #1
seeing the xbow offerings,i notice a lot are heavy in physical wieght,and heavy in draw wieght,200 lbs. and more to get 400 fps with a lighter than 400 grain arrow,now i know they have xbows shooting 450fps or more costing thousands and with what kind of drawwieght or long power stroke,but i'm talking mid price
 

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Not exactly sure what you are asking here, so here goes... you want a mid-priced light weight, 400 plus FPS crossbow? If that's what you were getting at, I then ask what YOU consider to be "Mid-Price". Killer Instinct has an array of fast offerings at modest prices, and has a fairly good customer service reputation to boot. Some people like Centerpoint Bows...I guess it all depends on your tastes, needs, and your wallet.
 

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I'm sure technology will keep advancing to the point where lighter materials yield stronger limbs meaning more powerful xbows.
No reason to stop now.
 

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500fps … is just around the corner! :love:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
what i meant was this years offerings of xbows under a 1000$,a little faster maybe but with heavy drawieghts of 200 lbs. or more and weights over 8 lbs.,the ki 425 over 200 lb draw ,bear's 0ver 8 lb wieght,i liked the wicked ridge but 400 fps with a 370 grain arrow,too old for those specs,i don't see anything better than i bought 2 years ago
 

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Speed is … an evolution, not a revolution like manufacturers would like you to believe. I joke about the Seth Godin book "All Marketers are Liars." But the premise of the book is that we as consumers WANT to believe certain things and marketers or manufacturers use that inherent characteristic to have us thinking the product improved. Sometimes improved exponentially. If you keep an eye on the "Kinetic Energy" component of a crossbow specification you'll have a much better understanding of whether a bow is "really" that much faster than the competition or the previous models. As you noted, speed numbers are easily enough to change just by launching a lighter arrow. Take a respectable deer killing 400fps and 400gr arrow crossbow and introduce the brand new 2020 - 430fps model (with a 350gr arrow. A specification that might be hard to find...lol) … and they both have 142ke. There really wasn't any change. Still, you want to think you got the latest 430fps crossbow, even if you know it was taken with a 350gr arrow.

My point is "average" speed creeps up over years and years. PSE, Bowtech and Scorpyd had 400fps bows over a decade ago.
 

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Speed is … an evolution, not a revolution like manufacturers would like you to believe. I joke about the Seth Godin book "All Marketers are Liars." But the premise of the book is that we as consumers WANT to believe certain things and marketers or manufacturers use that inherent characteristic to have us thinking the product improved. Sometimes improved exponentially. If you keep an eye on the "Kinetic Energy" component of a crossbow specification you'll have a much better understanding of whether a bow is "really" that much faster than the competition or the previous models. As you noted, speed numbers are easily enough to change just by launching a lighter arrow. Take a respectable deer killing 400fps and 400gr arrow crossbow and introduce the brand new 2020 - 430fps model (with a 350gr arrow. A specification that might be hard to find...lol) … and they both have 142ke. There really wasn't any change. Still, you want to think you got the latest 430fps crossbow, even if you know it was taken with a 350gr arrow.

My point is "average" speed creeps up over years and years. PSE, Bowtech and Scorpyd had 400fps bows over a decade ago.
So,my 202.58 KE should be enough? LOL
I slowed mine back down a tad with heavier arrows,just to save wear and tear and smooth it down some at the shot. Really happy with it now!
447 gr - 452 fps
 

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The materials for crossbows is no different than the materials for vertical bows. Vertical tech is light years ahead of anyone in the crossbow world and so... No... There will be nothing out of this world forth coming. In the end, weight increases and increased breakages are all that is at the end of the rainbow. Keep following the manufacturers and keep paying for it. Thats the idea.
 

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So,my 202.58 KE should be enough? LOL
I slowed mine back down a tad with heavier arrows,just to save wear and tear and smooth it down some at the shot. Really happy with it now!
447 gr - 452 fps
202.58ke?... "It's a rabbit, not a rhinoceros."..lol 😂 ;)
 
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seeing the xbow offerings,i notice a lot are heavy in physical wieght,and heavy in draw wieght,200 lbs. and more to get 400 fps with a lighter than 400 grain arrow,now i know they have xbows shooting 450fps or more costing thousands and with what kind of drawwieght or long power stroke,but i'm talking mid price
‘Each of us put different priorities on the different aspects of a crossbow: weight, size, longevity, speed, accuracy, cost, warrenty, ease of service - can I do it myself (Excalibur, SWAT, some others) , dealers do it (KI, others)or have to go back to factory (Ravin, Ten Point, other?).

I put a heavy emphasis on extreme accuracy, especially 50-80 yards. Simplicity and being able to work on it myself is also pretty high on my list. After 2 full seasons of using a smaller, lighter crossbow , size and weight (small and light) have become appreciated, long term dependability and staying in tune and sighted-in are important, lifetime warrenty , and a reasonable cost are all factors in selecting a crossbow for myself.

The previous paragraph is why I liked the SWAT so much. It had all of those characteristics. The introduction of a 30’/sec faster, lighter, smaller version of the same was very appealing. Just like the pivot arm problem on the SWAT , the SWAT XP introduction was marred by a string and cable problem. The pivot arm problem (I never experienced this problem) was quickly, and easily fixed and the SWAT has an excellent reliability record. The same is happening with the XP as the newer strings and cables plus a little cam polishing has rectified the initial problem.

So, here is a 6 1/2# crossbow , elegantly simple in design, below mid-price range, unequaled accuracy for hunting arrows (fixed or expandible BHs), 405-415’/sec with a 400g arrow, 200# draw weight, 27” long, <10” wide.

I think this is what you were asking about. Yes, there is such a crossbow that meets your description.
 

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For me personally, there always seems to be a point of diminishing returns in regards to speed. Reading these forums, 350 -375 FPS using an arrow in the 400 grain neighborhood seems to be the sweet spot on an xbow to ensure trouble free performance, day after day. Especially if you like to shoot a lot like I do. When xbows exceeds those speeds, tuning becomes paramount. Maintenance becomes an issue. Broadhead/arrow selection becomes more critical to maintain field point accuracy/POI.

I've went down the chasing speed road with my vertical bows. I was able to obtain the higher speeds, but my accuracy fell off along the way as I continued to shoot. I seemed to end up in a never ending tuning cycle and was constantly in my dealer's shop. My bows would shoot great for 50 shots or so and then things started going down hill. In the end, I decided speed wasn't the ultimate goal. Accuracy and precision with low maintenance requirements wins the race in my book. It seems there are no free rides when it comes to speed. Everything comes at a cost. If you like constantly tinkering with your bow, knock yourself out chasing speed. My dealer tried to tell me this, but I wouldn't listen. The same would seem to apply for xbows. Maybe the XP is different? Time will tell I guess.
 

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“ The same would seem to apply for xbows. Maybe the XP is different? Time will tell I guess.”

I’ve had two totally troublefree xbows out of 38 years of usage: Scorpyd Aculeus 460 and my 2 SWATs. Ironically, they are my 2 fastest and 2 most accurate.
 

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“ The same would seem to apply for xbows. Maybe the XP is different? Time will tell I guess.”

I’ve had two totally troublefree xbows out of 38 years of usage: Scorpyd Aculeus 460 and my 2 SWATs. Ironically, they are my 2 fastest and 2 most accurate.
What kinda speed do the original SWATS get? I was thinking less than 400 FPS?
 

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Nice plug, again.....


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