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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I been looking at powerstoke, limb poundage, and cam rotation quite a bit lately. Really comparing the TenPoint nxt and the Ravin r26, and ravin 29. Between the 3 we see what seems to have engineering masterpieces but a technology limit. I’m seeing stalemate in the making especially if you choose to stay short and narrow. Ravin could possibly bump its limb poundage to 225 to gain a few feet per second, if they increase there powestroke past 12. 5 a new cam will have to be engineered for increased rotation. In terms of a rest they will either have to put it in a different place or increase arrow length. They can possibly gain a few feet per second but it doesn’t seem like much is achievable outside just increasing limb poundage to 225. It would literally take a completely new design. A 22 inch arrow and over rotation of the current cams is a possibility. That coupled with 225 pound limbs is the easiest on a 31 inch frame. It would gain speed and speed is what sells. Again I’m just speculating and don’t see them moving a the rest to an in between point. I don’t see much more Ten point can do either to increase speed and stay narrow. They are already running a 16 inch plus powerstroke and 225lbs limbs.
Is this a year of design refinements and new scope technology? I’m thinking probably so unless you choose wider and longer. It’s been several years now since the vertical compound bow hit its peak. Since then they have started adding phrase like smoother, vibration free, and zero cam lean. Is this the trend we will see moving forward big focus and small refinements? Has physics and engineering hit the law of limitations. Time will tell.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Ravin and CenterPoint have combined to produce the budget friendly cp400. TenPoint has always Introduced budget friendly options all while introducing Wicked Ridge and Horton to its stable. Reverse limb technology is patented and I don’t see a complete engineering redesign coming to Ravin or at least I’d be shocked. TenPoint needs to introduce a redesigned accudraw system and decocking to the mix. Couple a few refinements to the nxt and you have bow of the year next year. Ravin will surprise us for sure but they are very lean on things this year it seems to me. We all now Scorpyd to be fast but can they get narrower and hold together. Most high end technology is short narrow and fast as possible. This trend is hitting it limit. If we combine the nxt speed and the Ravin refinement rich crossbow can we get much better? I’m thinking not. Once again I’m just comparing high end flagship bow. We can see lots done in the consumer friendly market in ways of refinements.
 

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Nemesis 480 & DeathStalker 380, I live near Greensburg PA. I enjoy building custom strings
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I'm anxious to see what this year's ATA show will have. I'm not in the market for another bow but it will just be interesting to see what manufacturers are doing. You made alot of good points. In order for crossbows to get more powerful the string materials need to also.
 

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Not even … close. Technology and innovation will someday produce 700fps huntable crossbows.
 

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Nemesis 480 & DeathStalker 380, I live near Greensburg PA. I enjoy building custom strings
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The arrows will have to be made out of steel so that you could shoot them again....lol..if you could find it !
By then you won't even need to be in the woods with your bow to shoot it. It will be remote controlled while your in bed with your wife...lol
 

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I really don't think Duke is going to be happy until he can shoot through trees! Of course using his xray vision super duper night vision scope! Oh,I almost forgot,it has to be in a small package that can be folded up and put in his pocket !LOL
 

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Not even … close. Technology and innovation will someday produce 700fps huntable crossbows.
I dont know...
I remember in 2000 they were saying that after the Bowtech Black knight was introduced. Here we are 20 years later and what have they (industry) produced? a 7% increase?
I dont think so. I REALLY dont think so :D

Limbs and cams have limits and the stresses they can take have limits too.
 
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With technology advancing so rapidly, I don’t know how a person could say we are near the pinnacle. Maybe current designs and materials are close to the pinnacle, but one break through moves the goal post again. The only thing that could stifle innovations increasing speed might be government regulation, on my opinion.
Like your way of thinking! Now build me a 5 lb crossbow that shoots 700 fps! I promise not to tell the regulators.... LOL
 

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Not even … close. Technology and innovation will someday produce 700fps huntable crossbows.
I agree but that will in my opinion require new materials for limbs, shooting rails (possibly), trigger boxes and most certainly string and serving materials.

I will say Xbows I've seen in 2019 have had their share of issues that includes too much downward bow string pressure/shooting rails. Camo coming offf of shooting rails, Cam lean issues and premature serving failures. Do these Xbows work, yes. Is the customer satisfied with this type of ownership? I bet deep down there is disappointment.

My position it's just not about improved materials but machining quality to address so many variables mentioned above to actualize reliability. Right now I'm not seeing anything from OEM's how they are improving the build process and assembly refinement with many new Xbows releases. Just return it and we'll replace it. That's a gray area for a solution. Maybe I expect to much, that could be true.

Right now it's about speed vs reliability. Everyone can pick sides on that one. However, I do like what OEM's are working toward. I just don't want to be that guy that pays to be the guinea pig for R&D before next years ATA hype.

So I just purchased a 2019, (my second) Barnett TS-370. I know what I'm getting with that Xbow. In the interim I need to see more about real FPS performance along with reliability.

I had energy from BearX but going to wait and see now how that Xbow holds up. I do like what I'm seeing though. Not to much but enough in a lot of areas that would get my attention.

Tick Tock!
 

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I think in 5-6 years you might be asking your self remember when there was just crossbows & verticle bows allowed.
In thier own season.

speed will be the last thing folks are worried about.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I been looking at powerstoke, limb poundage, and cam rotation quite a bit lately. Really comparing the TenPoint nxt and the Ravin r26, and ravin 29. Between the 3 we see what seems to have engineering masterpieces but a technology limit. I’m seeing stalemate in the making especially if you choose to stay short and narrow. Ravin could possibly bump its limb poundage to 225 to gain a few feet per second, if they increase there powestroke past 12. 5 a new cam will have to be engineered for increased rotation. In terms of a rest they will either have to put it in a different place or increase arrow length. They can possibly gain a few feet per second but it doesn’t seem like much is achievable outside just increasing limb poundage to 225. It would literally take a completely new design. A 22 inch arrow and over rotation of the current cams is a possibility. That coupled with 225 pound limbs is the easiest on a 31 inch frame. It would gain speed and speed is what sells. Again I’m just speculating and don’t see them moving a the rest to an in between point. I don’t see much more Ten point can do either to increase speed and stay narrow. They are already running a 16 inch plus powerstroke and 225lbs limbs.
Is this a year of design refinements and new scope technology? I’m thinking probably so unless you choose wider and longer. It’s been several years now since the vertical compound bow hit its peak. Since then they have started adding phrase like smoother, vibration free, and zero cam lean. Is this the trend we will see moving forward big focus and small refinements? Has physics and engineering hit the law of limitations. Time will tell.
That should of said the xrt
 

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I agree but that will in my opinion require new materials for limbs, shooting rails (possibly), trigger boxes and most certainly string and serving materials.

I will say Xbows I've seen in 2019 have had their share of issues that includes too much downward bow string pressure/shooting rails. Camo coming offf of shooting rails, Cam lean issues and premature serving failures. Do these Xbows work, yes. Is the customer satisfied with this type of ownership? I bet deep down there is disappointment.

My position it's just not about improved materials but machining quality to address so many variables mentioned above to actualize reliability. Right now I'm not seeing anything from OEM's how they are improving the build process and assembly refinement with many new Xbows releases. Just return it and we'll replace it. That's a gray area for a solution. Maybe I expect to much, that could be true.

Right now it's about speed vs reliability. Everyone can pick sides on that one. However, I do like what OEM's are working toward. I just don't want to be that guy that pays to be the guinea pig for R&D before next years ATA hype.

So I just purchased a 2019, (my second) Barnett TS-370. I know what I'm getting with that Xbow. In the interim I need to see more about real FPS performance along with reliability.

I had energy from BearX but going to wait and see now how that Xbow holds up. I do like what I'm seeing though. Not to much but enough in a lot of areas that would get my attention.

Tick Tock!
My opinion … is 90% of the issues we see lately are design flaws centered on making "narrow" work, NOT speed related! It's a result of the buying public forcing manufacturers to produce narrow crossbows. Most of these issues would go away with increased ATA. Stresses go down on every component including the guy cocking the crossbow ...lol String angle improves, canting becomes less of an issue, trigger box stress reduces, power stroke can be lengthened, there's a lot to be said for increased ATA.:)
Kyūdō Archery Gungdo Arrow Stock photography
 

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I wanted to make a wider ATA but the licensee wanted narrow. You see, wider ATA means that your cams can be MUCH smaller because much of the power stroke is from the bending of the limbs. Smaller cams means lighter cams. The lighter the cam, the less weight the limb tips have to accelerate and the faster the arrow speed you will get. With all the narrow designs, ALL the power stroke is determined by the size of the cams. Bigger cams mean heavier cams. Not good.

Unless someone comes up with a more magical limb material, I think we are very close to the pinnacle.
The problem lies with bow parts flying apart from the instant and abrupt stop they have to make on each shot.
You can shoot a lot faster right now if you shoot a lighter and/or shorter and lighter arrow. BUT, the only way to
do that safely (arrow wise, not bow part wise), is to use a totally enclosed barrel system like what is on the SWAT crossbow. You DO NOT need 300 foot/pounds of energy to kill deer or elk.
 
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