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Heavy arrow chart

6560 Views 16 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  Lever Action, 
JH HUNTER
If I remember correctly this is a chart by Dr. Ed Ashby for bow arrows. That is where an arrow with a strong fix blade broadhead will brake the shoulder bone and still penetrate to do damage, what are your feelings on this chart and do you think the chart will look different for crossbow arrows.


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KTownKiller
Ya, but I don't want my buck to fall over laugh'n at me as he watches my arrow nose dive into the ground before reaching him!!! ;) Just kid'n, man!! Loosen the knotted tighty whiteys!

Seriously now, you've got the old gears churn'n in my thick head now....!!! :rolleyes: I'm listen'n, a bit! LOL

A think'n,
KTK
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gingerjake
JH HUNTER said:
That is where an arrow with a strong fix blade broadhead will brake the shoulder bone and still penetrate to do damage, what are your feelings on this chart and do you think the chart will look different for crossbow arrows.
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I think he may have tied this back into minimum momentum of around 0.5 (whatevers). Like KTK, I disremember what they are called. Anyway, I'm a proponent of Ashby and "The Ranch Fairy" (see his videos). I shoot a 545 gr arrow at 280 fps aimed at WT heart. If the elbow gets in the way, I want it broken. I never shoot for the shoulder. If I'm shooting down from a 20' stand and it "jumps the string", I want the back broken. Heavy arrows do stuff like that.:eek:
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KTownKiller
Maybe I need heavier TruGlos.... Huuummmm.....:rolleyes: Crap! you guys!!!....
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Huntersthompson
I have some cx juggernauts that weighed 410 without heads. Changed the large vanes to blazer.they now weigh 388gn without heads. They shoot accurate and bury deep. I shoot 400 gn total weight for whitetail. Bought the spears for pigs.
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JH HUNTER
gingerjake said:
I think he may have tied this back into minimum momentum of around 0.5 (whatevers). Like KTK, I disremember what they are called. Anyway, I'm a proponent of Ashby and "The Ranch Fairy" (see his videos). I shoot a 545 gr arrow at 280 fps aimed at WT heart. If the elbow gets in the way, I want it broken. I never shoot for the shoulder. If I'm shooting down from a 20' stand and it "jumps the string", I want the back broken. Heavy arrows do stuff like that.:eek:
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Gingerjake the Ranch Fairy also changed my mind on speed vs momentum. All my setups have an arrow weight of 500gr. Or more now. You never know when things don't go well, hit shoulder or spine as you say. I want it to brake bone and still penetrate the vitals.

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JH HUNTER
2
Call me crazy but this is my Exocet 200 setup. No issue with penetration and its scary accurate out to 50 yards. 50 being my self impose max distance. Look at the Foc on those babies. 27%


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JH HUNTER
Huntersthompson said:
I have some cx juggernauts that weighed 410 without heads. Changed the large vanes to blazer.they now weigh 388gn without heads. They shoot accurate and bury deep. I shoot 400 gn total weight for whitetail. Bought the spears for pigs.
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So with a 125gr. Broadhead, your arrow will be around 500gr. Total. Pig killing spears.

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Lever Action
While I am a big proponent of high FOC (which drags me into the heavy weight arena) When speaking to the crossbow, we are also talking about a lot higher slug range for the same weight arrow (being fired from a vertical bow) than Ashby or the Ranch Fairy are looking at. Looking at the .50 slug standard, this is easily achievable with a 350 grain arrow, when that arrow arrives ar 400 fps. in fact, the example arrow I have given derives .62 slugs. That same arrow fired from a vertical compound would amount to .49 at the average speed (320fps) in the field today. This is why the Ranch fairy wont discuss crossbow and ashby isnt focused on them either. The average crossbow isnt plagued by the same issues of penetration as are found in the vertical world.

I am not arguing against a heavy arrow at all. Just answering the question in the O.P.
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JH HUNTER
Lever Action said:
While I am a big proponent of high FOC (which drags me into the heavy weight arena) When speaking to the crossbow, we are also talking about a lot higher slug range for the same weight arrow (being fired from a vertical bow) than Ashby or the Ranch Fairy are looking at. Looking at the .50 slug standard, this is easily achievable with a 350 grain arrow, when that arrow arrives ar 400 fps. in fact, the example arrow I have given derives .62 slugs. That same arrow fired from a vertical compound would amount to .49 at the average speed (320fps) in the field today. This is why the Ranch fairy wont discuss crossbow and ashby isnt focused on them either. The average crossbow isnt plagued by the same issues of penetration as are found in the vertical world.

I am not arguing against a heavy arrow at all. Just answering the question in the O.P.
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Thank you Lever Action. That was exactly what I was trying to bring. A little thinking out of the box so to speak. Crossbow arrows don't lose the same amount of momentum on impact, by the arrow oscillating and bending, as bow arrows. They are much stiffer. That also helps with better penetration.

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Huntersthompson
JH HUNTER said:
So with a 125gr. Broadhead, your arrow will be around 500gr. Total. Pig killing spears.


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513gn. Currently using 100gn bh so 488gn. Have not located pigs in my hunting area yet but they say they are steadily moving this way. I ready when they are.
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Lever Action
JH HUNTER said:
Thank you Lever Action. That was exactly what I was trying to bring. A little thinking out of the box so to speak. Crossbow arrows don't lose the same amount of momentum on impact, by the arrow oscillating and bending, as bow arrows. They are much stiffer. That also helps with better penetration.

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Good point. You would be correct.
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2bwhnt
Lever Action said:
While I am a big proponent of high FOC (which drags me into the heavy weight arena) When speaking to the crossbow, we are also talking about a lot higher slug range for the same weight arrow (being fired from a vertical bow) than Ashby or the Ranch Fairy are looking at. Looking at the .50 slug standard, this is easily achievable with a 350 grain arrow, when that arrow arrives ar 400 fps. in fact, the example arrow I have given derives .62 slugs. That same arrow fired from a vertical compound would amount to .49 at the average speed (320fps) in the field today. This is why the Ranch fairy wont discuss crossbow and ashby isnt focused on them either. The average crossbow isnt plagued by the same issues of penetration as are found in the vertical world.

I am not arguing against a heavy arrow at all. Just answering the question in the O.P.
Click to expand...
I am new to the crossbow world but not compounds. I haven't quite understood why guys with crossbows are worried about penetration. My compound hunting speed is usually 260 to 270 and not really a heavy arrow. I've gotten passthroughs and if my arrow hit the spine it dropped it. I would think that with crossbow speed you would be looking for your arrow in the dirt. I know everyone has there own opinion but with my new DS 420 I'm not gonna worry about it.
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Huntersthompson
Whitetail are one thing,pigs another. When skinning a pig you realize just how thick and tough their hide is.
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JH HUNTER
2bwhnt said:
I am new to the crossbow world but not compounds. I haven't quite understood why guys with crossbows are worried about penetration. My compound hunting speed is usually 260 to 270 and not really a heavy arrow. I've gotten passthroughs and if my arrow hit the spine it dropped it. I would think that with crossbow speed you would be looking for your arrow in the dirt. I know everyone has there own opinion but with my new DS 420 I'm not gonna worry about it.
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It also depends on what you are hunting. Take this Eland cow, one of 2 that I was fortunate to hunt last year. My total arrow weight was over 500gr and the arrow still did not make it out the other end. Now if I was using a 400gr arrow and for whatever reason, pulled my shot, or she moved and I hit the shoulder, I doubt that I would have enough penetration to reach the vitals. For whitetail, it does not matter if it's 400 or 500gr,


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2bwhnt
JH HUNTER said:
It also depends on what you are hunting. Take this Eland cow, one of 2 that I was fortunate to hunt last year. My total arrow weight was over 500gr and the arrow still did not make it out the other end. Now if I was using a 400gr arrow and for whatever reason, pulled my shot, or she moved and I hit the shoulder, I doubt that I would have enough penetration to reach the vitals. For whitetail, it does not matter if it's 400 or 500gr,


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Yes you guys are right it does matter what kind of game you're hunting. For me it's just whitetails.
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Lever Action
2bwhnt said:
I am new to the crossbow world but not compounds. I haven't quite understood why guys with crossbows are worried about penetration. My compound hunting speed is usually 260 to 270 and not really a heavy arrow. I've gotten passthroughs and if my arrow hit the spine it dropped it. I would think that with crossbow speed you would be looking for your arrow in the dirt. I know everyone has there own opinion but with my new DS 420 I'm not gonna worry about it.
Click to expand...
Not sure why you are quoting me? I believe I was saying pretty much what you are saying here. Then again.... I will point out that what you have seen and as it applies to crossbows is basically irrelevant because #1 you are speaking of what you have seen and what you have seen isnt a fraction of what crossbow guys are doing. What you suggest (in regard to that statement) assumes that everyone is hunting deer and thats the end of it. Many people who are looking at heavy loads are not hunting deer, although some (like myself) are hunting deer as well.
#2 you dont have any background and you are not looking at the big picture.... As is proven out by your lack of consideration of anything beyond penetration.
#3 I'm not going to worry about it .... That expresses an overwhelming desire to remain uneducated. which makes me wonder...
Why did you quote my response and why are you even commenting on this thread?

EDIT....
I see you are already opening your eyes, via having someone else respond and remind you that what you said is pretty much a neophytes statement.
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