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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Since there is lots for time before season opens will try both lighter setup and heavier setup. Have the Match 400 arrows that came with crossbow 400 gr with the 100 gr field point. Bought some EVO-X that I think are around 445 with 100 gr point with my 150 gr point they would be around 495. Also have some 125 points I can try.
 

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FOC , I think is the key.

375g Lab Radar - Brian
This is thru 39(actually 40 yards).

all
Velocity according to distance
Dist. (yards)
V1.0
V20.0
V30.0
V39.0
Vx average
286 fps
281 fps
278 fps
275 fps
-
 

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Heavy FOC improves arrow to arrow accuracy as well. This why i bailed on 30 gr alum inserts years ago using the 170gr FOC to now i'm using a Double tapp what are they 92 or 94grs can't remember.
Don't lose sight of this is not based on a idea in my head. This comes from shooting allot. Not a few arrows and calling it good.
 

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All this info is great but we are just trying to kill a thin shinned whitetail aren’t we?
My most important hunt of the year is fall black bear. Though rarely, they can top 500#, >400 is relatively common.

This one was from 2020. I don’t weigh them: just flesh them out, take the meat, skin them and feed the coyotes and hogs.

 

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I was asked to test the Shartac BH. I expressed my opinion that Dr Ashby’s thoughts had little relation to my hunting here; but I would test them and give findings. I’m doing that. A question was asked in the thread starter. I’m giving some findings from 39 years of crossbow shooting and over 65 years of stick bow shooting. Part of my findings seem to be relevant to the question asked. I’m not making recommendations.

I think I can speak for Brian here also, but we’ve been shocked at the accuracy and much flatter trajectory than we had expected.

With sighting in (BD400) with 440g arrows at 20 yards and using the speed setting of 340 (the lowest) , the scope was dead on thru 50. With sighting in at 20 yards, again, with Boo’s arrows (now with the 375 Edgetac) and a total weight of 710, it was dead on thru 50. The increased BC overcoming the slower velocity is the only reason I could come up with.

I’m just reporting findings, nothing else. No recommendations, etc. The AV3s were much more accurate than the 2.5 Vanetec in 1 degree offset (note: those arrows were 735g and not resighted in at 20 so they’re hitting lower at 50). The AV3s broad head tipped arrows were very close to the field point. Groups opened up with the Vanetecs, as expected.
 

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Here I just went out and shot the Excalibur Bulldog 360. Yesterday I shot twice with a 100 gr wicked trick broadhead 100grs. I tried to set the tape on the hole it made yesterday. The arrow that’s barking at 3” low I just shot. Same arrow other than I screwed on a FOC 170 gr broadhead. That’s a ballpark drop of about 23 fps.
If I want to hit my mark I need to know that the target was 50 yds and it was. Regardless of the difference in speed of my bow/arrow I needed to know that. Once the scope is sighted in with the arrows. Then the end result would be the same. I shoot the light arrow it hits the bull. I shoot the heavier arrow it hits the bull.

the question then is what one is more accurate. Over time shooting like I might hunt wind for example.
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The loss ... of "accuracy" is not at known ranges. The loss is at UNKNOWN ranges. As arrow weight and arc or trajectory increases, the envelope of Point Blank Range,(Kill Zone - or parameters of distance that a center hold will still be in the vitals) shrinks. For hypothetical example a 400gr/400fps arrow may stay in the vitals between 20-40 yards, whereas a 700gr/300fps arrow may only stay in the vitals between 20 & 30 yards. You lose 10 yards of sure kill zone. Therefore your range estimation becomes increasingly critical. More deer are wounded by incorrect range estimates than anything else. In the real world out in the field, with deer popping up all around and moving hither & yon, a hunter often has no opportunity to rangefinder it. We can see why faster and flatter is a huge benefit. Heck, 3/4 of the hunters out there probably don't even own a rangefinder! Remember "accuracy is the combination of equipment and shooter under the conditions he's working under." "Precision is simply the performance capability of the equipment." You can have a 1 MOA setup on the range off a bench on a balmy 70° day, and that expands to 6 MOA right before dark, sitting in a treestand with 15mph winds and snow blowing in your face. :oops: ;)
 

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Duke when i speak of accuracy, i'm talking about the hole package. I never guess where to hold. I range the Bucks i kill then i dial in the yardage and i kill it. Now if he's close inside 30 yds i just kill him. But blind hunting for a big buck. I have a rest that will swivel 360% if needed my bow riding right along with me shouldered and a eye in the scope.

Once they prefect these smart scopes. Then all that left is arrow accuracy. But thats where im at now just not as fast.

You kill deer in a target rich environment where killing 3,4 or 5 deer within a very short period of time is what you do. I set for days weeks maybe months to pull the trigger once.

You want ballpark accuracy in the kill zone dead deer. I want my arrow to hit behind the dot.

You always say see small miss small. I say miss small or not at all.
 

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Here I just went out and shot the Excalibur Bulldog 360. Yesterday I shot twice with a 100 gr wicked trick broadhead 100grs. I tried to set the tape on the hole it made yesterday. The arrow that’s barking at 3” low I just shot. Same arrow other than I screwed on a FOC 170 gr broadhead. That’s a ballpark drop of about 23 fps.
If I want to hit my mark I need to know that the target was 50 yds and it was. Regardless of the difference in speed of my bow/arrow I needed to know that. Once the scope is sighted in with the arrows. Then the end result would be the same. I shoot the light arrow it hits the bull. I shoot the heavier arrow it hits the bull.

the question then is what one is more accurate. Over time shooting like I might hunt wind for example.
View attachment 224126
So the heavier shaft dropped 3” more?
 

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So the heavier shaft dropped 3” more?
Don’t know what you mean by more. But it dropped about 3” same arrow 100gr swat x mag vs 170 gr Foc.
Not sure if it was last year or the year before. I had my 400’s with the XBR scope and optimiser. With a tape on the turret marked swat and foc.
Camera lens Reflex camera Automotive tire Mirrorless interchangeable-lens camera Lens

the blue ink line you see to the left is for the FOC 170 gr head. Shooting out to my max hunting range of 60 yds. I just simply turned the dial to what I wanted to shoot. Turned the optimiser to the ranged yardage and shot. Before I put the tape on the scope and the reason I did. Is I found that the optimisers yardage marks were extremely close to the point I left it be. So the cast of the arrow really wasn’t that much different. And once scope adjustment was made. Nothing changed target or deer was 47 yards I turned the dial to 47 and killed the deer.

The FOC ended up winning out. And I took the tape off. Now I’m fooling with the swat out of the Excalibur bulldog.
 

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I guess I don’t understand what you did then.

I thought you shot a 100gr point, then put a 170gr point on and it hit 3” lower.

Then what?
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Wow looks like I opened a can of worms! Honestly until I joined this website in Jan I never really gave a lot of thought to arrow weights. Maybe over thinking it. I have shot at least 25 deer over last few years since I started using a crossbow. Usually would shoot maybe 20-30 arrows just before season opened. I think getting the Fury peaked my interest about arrows and the impact on accuracy. I am strictly a hunter so I would be satisfied with groups that I am sure target shooters would not be.
Lots of good info has been provided much of it way over my head I just don't dig that deep into it. Just an old fart who loves to deer hunt.
 

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Wow looks like I opened a can of worms! Honestly until I joined this website in Jan I never really gave a lot of thought to arrow weights. Maybe over thinking it. I have shot at least 25 deer over last few years since I started using a crossbow. Usually would shoot maybe 20-30 arrows just before season opened. I think getting the Fury peaked my interest about arrows and the impact on accuracy. I am strictly a hunter so I would be satisfied with groups that I am sure target shooters would not be.
Lots of good info has been provided much of it way over my head I just don't dig that deep into it. Just an old fart who loves to deer hunt.
You're like ... about 90% of the hunters out there. Around here the guys are like about 1% of the hunters out there. They're good hunters, but not your normal hunter...lol Everything is figured, calculated and debated 8 ways to Sunday. They're "into" the minutia. And most of these guys are superb at the way they do things. For example, some like a heavy somewhat slower arrow and kill everything they shoot at. Some like a normal weight and faster arrow and they too kill with all their shots. The key is they understand the limitations of their setup. The thing that gets lost in most of these discussions is "all these crossbows are carrying exorbitant quantities of energy for killing a deer." "If you can hit it, you will kill it." Light fast arrow or slow powerful arrow are both zipping through the deer.
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The loss ... of "accuracy" is not at known ranges. The loss is at UNKNOWN ranges. As arrow weight and arc or trajectory increases, the envelope of Point Blank Range,(Kill Zone - or parameters of distance that a center hold will still be in the vitals) shrinks. For hypothetical example a 400gr/400fps arrow may stay in the vitals between 20-40 yards, whereas a 700gr/300fps arrow may only stay in the vitals between 20 & 30 yards. You lose 10 yards of sure kill zone. Therefore your range estimation becomes increasingly critical. More deer are wounded by incorrect range estimates than anything else. In the real world out in the field, with deer popping up all around and moving hither & yon, a hunter often has no opportunity to rangefinder it. We can see why faster and flatter is a huge benefit. Heck, 3/4 of the hunters out there probably don't even own a rangefinder! Remember "accuracy is the combination of equipment and shooter under the conditions he's working under." "Precision is simply the performance capability of the equipment." You can have a 1 MOA setup on the range off a bench on a balmy 70° day, and that expands to 6 MOA right before dark, sitting in a treestand with 15mph winds and snow blowing in your face. :oops: ;)
And taking shots a deer at unknown ranges/distances. Is how you end up with wonded and lost animal's.

Reminds me of the old ******** (baw all chew need is a 06 and aim for the pine and it drops).

Fact of the matter it doesnt matter if the arrow is going 1000fps or 100 fps. If you dont know the rnage too target, your not going to hit your point of aim.

And that's the same as missing in my book.
 

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I’ve always had the Leupold Vendetta rangefinder mounted on my crossbows for that very reason.
 
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