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Discussion Starter #1
I recently ordered the HHA sight platform from Wyvern Creations. Today, the weather permitted some outdoor activities other than lawn and garden work, so here we went. After install, I attached a red dot scope and sighted in for 20 yards. During sighting in I used a level to assure bow was not canted during the process. All went well. Moved out to 60 yards, at a different location, and did not have a level. Mistake! I could not seem to get same arrow to have consistent POI. I got down to 4 or 5" from POA. What would those with red dot experience recommend for an attached level for the xbow. I'm sure tomorrow will get tighter results because the level will be available to help keep the xbow more consistent at the shot.
 

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Is that the one made specifically for the Mission Sub-1? I almost pulled the trigger on one but didn’t think I’d like the adjustment knob on the right side, plus it would have interfered with the Vendetta.

What was your poi issue - vertical or windage? I would think without crosshairs it might be hard for a consistent level hold - I had a red dot on a Jack Plate for awhile but don’t recall how far I ever shot with it.

I’m under the impression that canting a crossbow messes up the poi more than once would think. I’ve always wanted to take a target and Sharpie another crosshair over it to compare perfectly level vs canting on the same target.

I remember Farm Boy posted recently posted about a guy that was missing the target and he put a level on the turret and the bubble went out of sight I think he said. I tried to simulate that with a 24” level and found it was something like only1º - 1 1/2º - I had thought it would have been a lot more than that.

I think a level is more important than some people think it is. Good luck.
 
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Discussion Starter #3
TP, The Tetra is the newer version with the spacer needed to clear cocking rope etc.

The POI was scattered, which ever direction the bow was canted, thus the results. Without the horizontal reticle I have little confidence the bow will not be canted enough to open up the POI. I agree with you, 1° to 2° off level changes the POI much more than I ever thought. Amazing how much the crosshair helps maintain proper bow position.

My thinking now, if you are shooting a red dot you should install a level that can be easily checked while aiming. More like another nocking point.

Your crosshair experiment would certainly add value and help explain how many degrees of cant will scatter a grouping.

Thanks for your comments!
 

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A red dot covers more of the target face than a cross hair does. For more precise shooting, especially at long-distance use a magnified scope on the HHA.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The thickness of a line on a bubble makes a big difference
and the farther the shot, the farther off the point of aim.
All the best.
Take care.
I am finding that to be an understatement. The more I'm tinkering the more I discover how important the level is on a crossbow.
I am switching to red dot due to being tired of wrestling with progressive lenses in my glasses and scopes. May not be a good idea. With that said, I'm finding the crossbow without a level to verify the cant is not as accurate as could be. Thanks for your comments BR.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
A red dot covers more of the target face than a cross hair does. For more precise shooting, especially at long-distance use a magnified scope on the HHA.
Agree! All these years of shooting rifles at pests and predators, now I'm realizing all those close shots were possibly caused by canting of the rifle by a couple degrees. I'm in need of multiple levels for toys. Thanks for your comments 395!
 

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A red dot covers more of the target face than a cross hair does. For more precise shooting, especially at long-distance use a magnified scope on the HHA.
What is MOA of the red dot? 2moa is pretty small. Also intensity (brightness) is a factor too. I have very good results when adding a picatinny bubble level out past 50 yards.. I can't shoot at same POA with fear of damaging arrows.

Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
What is MOA of the red dot? 2moa is pretty small. Also intensity (brightness) is a factor too. I have very good results when adding a picatinny bubble level out past 50 yards.. I can't shoot at same POA with fear of damaging arrows.

Good luck!
It's a 3 MOA. I've used it on pistols and rim fire rifles. Seems to be much more sensitive to a couple degrees out of level on the crossbow. I may be returning to the scope if POI remain scattered at 60 yards. Level on the way, time will tell.
 

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It's a 3 MOA. I've used it on pistols and rim fire rifles. Seems to be much more sensitive to a couple degrees out of level on the crossbow. I may be returning to the scope if POI remain scattered at 60 yards. Level on the way, time will tell.
Red Dot works for me and if setup right is very effective and capable as any scope at 20-35 yards. With practice you can be extremely accurate at 50 yards. A bubble level will eliminate canting and will tighten up windage groups noticeably. That's been my experience when I added a picatinny bubble level.

Good luck, you have options and that is a scope.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
How does a bubble level tighten up windage groups?
Windage being the same as horizontal adjustment, much like elevation being vertical adjustment.
The canting of the bow scatters the POI in an arc fashion caused by canting the bow left to right by a few degrees in each direction.
 
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Robert, you were the one that helped me with this two years ago.

When I first started shouting at 50 yard targets I could track my arrows and it looked like WTH the arrow was moving like a screwball pitcher THROWING A BASEBALL. I hadn’t realize I was canting the limbs at that time. Initially I thought it was the arrows. I added the bubble level and immediately improved my grouping. Arrows were flying straight after I leveled my limbs when shooting.
 

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I remember that Tom but I don't agree with a bubble helping on windage grouping. My head will not wrap around the concept of a bubble level reading the wind. A bubble level just helps you get your horizontal plane corrected so your limbs level out.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I remember that Tom but I don't agree with a bubble helping on windage grouping. My head will not wrap around the concept of a bubble level reading the wind. A bubble level just helps you get your horizontal plane corrected so your limbs level out.
It does not read the wind...as earlier ^^, windage is the same as horizontal adjustment, elevation is vertical adjustment. Has nothing to do with a level.
 

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I remember that Tom but I don't agree with a bubble helping on windage grouping. My head will not wrap around the concept of a bubble level reading the wind. A bubble level just helps you get your horizontal plane corrected so your limbs level out.
Robert, I may have not communicated effectively. All things being equal no wind. If I canted my Xbow my shots / arrow moved left to right like a screw ball pitcher. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. No canting because of a bubble arrows flew straight and true.
 
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