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Crossbow Nut
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Everyone has their favorite glue, and I've tried many, including the "blue top Gorilla" type, which worked perfect AT FIRST. Strange thing was, after a while, I couldn't get them to stick at all, using that same glue. I tried everything to get those vanes to stick but they wouldn't. What I have come to learn is, that apparently, once "super" glue is opened, it goes bad fairly quickly, which meant I wasted money and time by buying a squeeze bottle of the stuff. A few years back, I was experimenting with arrow speed and shot this arrow into the target and buried the vanes into the target.
181838


Tried to back-push the arrow through and couldn't. Tried to pull it out from behind and couldn't. Finally flipped the target over and with great difficulty, standing on the target with both feet and using both hands, managed to pull the arrow and vanes through the target.
A few things to note:
The outside temperature was cold (see snow) but the vanes held anyway, and not even the leading edge tips of the vanes came loose.
The patricular brand of vanes I used was not known to be all that great for adhesion.
The arrow shaft material was aluminum, not porous carbon which SHOULD provide the best adhesion.
The glue was liquid, not gel.
So... the conclusion I came to was this. Even the best and most famous, most expensive CA (super) glue begins to go bad after it's opened. The solution to this problem for me was to buy the cheapest generic LIQUID super glue in sealed tubes I could find. I'm talking 4 tubes for a dollar, dollar store cheap. What provided the adhesion in the pic was opening a new tube every time I fletched and discarding it when I finished, and opening a new tube of fresh glue next time. All CA glues seem to work great at first but seem to go bad over time. Opening a new tube is a workaround to that. On another note, I tried CA gel on aluminum shafts and had adhesion problems but from what I've heard, many have success with it on carbon. I don't sell glue so it doesn't matter to me what you use, I just hope this helps someone who has vane adhesion problems and can't figure out why, to understand how it COULD happen and what to try to do about it, and BTW, 1 little tube of generic liquid super glue will fletch a LOT more arrows than you'd think.
 

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That there is some great, real-world, personal experience and info.
Thanks for sharing Jack Pine.
We buy not only superglue from the dollar stores (4 per package) but the twin tube epoxy as well.
I used some of that $3 epoxy to repair a cement bird bath.
It has gone through a few winters now and is still holding strong, knock on wood,
Sometimes, it does pay off more in the long run to buy smaller packages instead of trying to save a few bucks and buying bulk that sits opened, unused and can lose some of it's properties.
 
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The best as far as a production and finished professional look is the glue we use in the shop

The reason i know its the best is I have tried the rest

Literally I have tried everything else from the cheapest bullet tube of crazy glue to the high dollar stuff used in the medical field and everything in between

And before anyone asks. Yes I have paid over 200.00 for a tube of adhesive
 

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Crossbow Nut
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Discussion Starter #5

The best as far as a production and finished professional look is the glue we use in the shop

The reason i know its the best is I have tried the rest

Literally I have tried everything else from the cheapest bullet tube of crazy glue to the high dollar stuff used in the medical field and everything in between

And before anyone asks. Yes I have paid over 200.00 for a tube of adhesive
Wouldn't expect you'd use anything less than the best.
Anything that would pass through a commercial target with the vanes still on it works for me. If I had to guarantee adhesion for thousands of customers, that might prompt me to buy some of yours.😀
 
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Wouldn't expect you'd use anything less than the best.
Anything that would pass through a commercial target with the vanes still on it works for me. If I had to guarantee adhesion for thousands of customers, that might prompt me to buy some of yours.😀
The Bohning Platnium is one of the best adhesives for aluminum

I have only found 1 that works well on aluminum, its Team Losi (blue label) from horizon hobbies
 

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To add more input on this topic it helps to keep in mind the fact that aluminum shafts should be cleaned before fletching with Denatured Alcohol. Carbon shafts should be cleaned with Acetone.

Next, whatever your preferred fast set glue is, it will lose about 50 percent of it's bonding strength within a maximum of 6 months. As Jack Pine correctly stated, the fresher the better.

Also, the more downward clamping pressure you can use between the vane clamp and arrow shaft the stronger the finished bond you'll end up with.

Jon Henry
 

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I have had mixed results with cyan acrylate glue ("superglue") as well. Perhaps because it had been first opened a while ago. Vanes just fell off after the first shot, or a few shots.
I use this one now (European manufacturer...): UHU | Max Repair
It is quite flexible when cured, strong, and vanes stick fine even 6 month after first opening the tube.

Not sure about about aluminium - all the shaft I know (and own) are painted, so you don't glue on metal directly. I use rubbing alcohol for both carbon and aluminium shafts.
I suspect metal (and aluminium) has a bigger thermal expansion coefficient than carbon, so the glue must have some flexibility.
 

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I have had mixed results with cyan acrylate glue ("superglue") as well. Perhaps because it had been first opened a while ago. Vanes just fell off after the first shot, or a few shots.
I use this one now (European manufacturer...): UHU | Max Repair
It is quite flexible when cured, strong, and vanes stick fine even 6 month after first opening the tube.

Not sure about about aluminium - all the shaft I know (and own) are painted, so you don't glue on metal directly. I use rubbing alcohol for both carbon and aluminium shafts.
I suspect metal (and aluminium) has a bigger thermal expansion coefficient than carbon, so the glue must have some flexibility.
This is the exact reason the most popular glue we used on aluminum shafts was either a bohning cement or more commonly Duco Cement. It was not an instant cement. It uses a set time of 15 minutes between vanes, but 24 hours to full strength for shooting.

Today, there are a number of shooters
on these forums that are still shooting aluminum shafts. I’m not certain what they’re using to achieve the best bond strength.
 

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This is the exact reason the most popular glue we used on aluminum shafts was either a bohning cement or more commonly Duco Cement. It was not an instant cement. It uses a set time of 15 minutes between vanes, but 24 hours to full strength for shooting.
Similar with the glue I mentioned. Not for the hasty, it takes about 15 minutes to stick, and about an hour to fully cure.
BTW, I use this glue also for wood and bamboo arrows, with good results. On traditional vertical bows, of course.
But I suppose it is not available in North America in the same form.
 

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Similar with the glue I mentioned. Not for the hasty, it takes about 15 minutes to stick, and about an hour to fully cure.
BTW, I use this glue also for wood and bamboo arrows, with good results. On traditional vertical bows, of course.
But I suppose it is not available in North America in the same form.
You are absolutely correct. Before carbon shafts even existed we were fletching aluminum, wood and bamboo arrows, all with the same fletch tite cement from bohning or Duco Cement.

I thought I’d mention for those who are unaware, the fact is slower setting glued offer a much stronger bond than quick sets.

when it comes to epoxy cements, the longer the dry time the stronger the bonding strength. Today, 15 minute epoxy is about as slow as you’re going to find for bonding your inserts into your arrow shaft. This pales compared to the old 24 hour epoxy.

Fast set glues became popular in recent years due to the fact that everybody is in a hurry and wants everything right away. It has a benefit to the shops in getting a lot more done in much less time, but it does not benefit the end user at all.
 

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You are absolutely correct. Before carbon shafts even existed we were fletching aluminum, wood and bamboo arrows, all with the same fletch tite cement from bohning or Duco Cement.

I thought I’d mention for those who are unaware, the fact is slower setting glued offer a much stronger bond than quick sets.

when it comes to epoxy cements, the longer the dry time the stronger the bonding strength. Today, 15 minute epoxy is about as slow as you’re going to find for bonding your inserts into your arrow shaft. This pales compared to the old 24 hour epoxy.

Fast set glues became popular in recent years due to the fact that everybody is in a hurry and wants everything right away. It has a benefit to the shops in getting a lot more done in much less time, but it does not benefit the end user at all.
The slower setting glue being strong is only true with epoxies. Cyanoacrylate is different. The thinner the adhesive, the closer together the parts are the tighter the bond

Some are best on metal while others are best on plastics

In recent years it seems easton has changed the finish on aluminum arrows making it difficult to find a Cyanoacrylate that will stick

In all of the dozens of various Cyanoacrylate adhesives I have tried i have found only one to be consistently effective on aluminum, the team losi (blue label

Because we need speed we mix 2 parts team losi to 1 part vibre tite (362)

It gives us a very fast set that is strong and lasts a long time.
 

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Crossbow Nut
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Discussion Starter #13
Well..... all I can say is....
181946
 

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The slower setting glue being strong is only true with epoxies. Cyanoacrylate is different. The thinner the adhesive, the closer together the parts are the tighter the bond

Some are best on metal while others are best on plastics

In recent years it seems easton has changed the finish on aluminum arrows making it difficult to find a Cyanoacrylate that will stick
Unfortunately, most manufacturers only say "cyanacrylate". And often, brand mixtures change ("improve") without proper notice.
In all of the dozens of various Cyanoacrylate adhesives I have tried i have found only one to be consistently effective on aluminum, the team losi (blue label

Because we need speed we mix 2 parts team losi to 1 part vibre tite (362)

It gives us a very fast set that is strong and lasts a long time.
This names tell me nothing ...
Often, manufacturers distribute the same thing under different names in different regions - glue as well as crossbows and cars. A proper datasheet would help.
I would have tried 5-min epoxy, if it wasn't that cumbersome with just one fletching jig ...
Epoxies are usually better documented, with pot life and tensile strength.

For the "improved" aluminium finish, perhaps a few strokes with a fine-grid sandpaper could help ?
All the aluminium xbow arrows I have are crap, and the XX75 arrows for the vertical recurve are 15 years old.
 

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Unfortunately, most manufacturers only say "cyanacrylate". And often, brand mixtures change ("improve") without proper notice.

This names tell me nothing ...
Often, manufacturers distribute the same thing under different names in different regions - glue as well as crossbows and cars. A proper datasheet would help.
I would have tried 5-min epoxy, if it wasn't that cumbersome with just one fletching jig ...
Epoxies are usually better documented, with pot life and tensile strength.

For the "improved" aluminium finish, perhaps a few strokes with a fine-grid sandpaper could help ?
All the aluminium xbow arrows I have are crap, and the XX75 arrows for the vertical recurve are 15 years old.
Absolutely if I remember there is only 3 major producers of all cyanoacrylate.

We always rough up the surface of aluminum shafts with a fine grit sandpaper

I'm glad you posted about the product you use i have already looked into bringing some in to try on aluminum

As for carbon we have that covered with our in shop formula mixture

In a high volume arrow shop we have to be concerned about speed but rework kills productivity so if i can find a better aluminum adhesive slower fletching time will have to be tolerated
 

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Maybe 5-minute epoxy would work as well, and be cost effective - with at least a dozen jigs and vanes at once.
But with one fletching jig, mix that tiny amount of two components several times makes no sense...
 

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Maybe 5-minute epoxy would work as well, and be cost effective - with at least a dozen jigs and vanes at once.
But with one fletching jig, mix that tiny amount of two components several times makes no sense...
Can't do that part of our process is fletching every arrow on a single jig

I have a small fortune in firenock jigs
 

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I only shoot aluminum shafts and use Loctite ultra super glue (blue cap).
Clean with acetone and then wash with comet cleanser. After using the comet I rinse the arrow shaft and dry. Now with the arrow shaft dry I will run a slow stream of water over the area to be fletched and look for beads of water. If water beads appear i will repeat with the comet cleanser till all water beads are gone.
This works for me for aluminum shafts.
 

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why all these iron tough glues is their one that bonds well enough but strips easy enough for fletch repair thats what i want trying to remove a messed up fletch thats bonded with cynocryalates is tough any suggestions?
 
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