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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
I see crossbows commonly being owned on this forum that cost 2-3-4 Xs more than a Razor 3x15, especially if bought offseason and at discount dealers. Also, a significant discount is offered to DAVs and veterans.

I have 1 Razor that cost me <$1,300 and should be a lifetime scope and guaranteed for life. It will remain on my rifle (I鈥檓 getting down to 2 MLers and 2 RFs, a 17 and 22M). I got my XBR at a bargain (well <$300). This year, I鈥檒l have the XBR on a first year Optimizer, and my obtained used Duralyt on a JP and a MV36 on 2 SWATs and a BD400 respectively. These are very low cost setups!

I鈥檝e not experienced the mega-buck crossbows except a few years ago, for a test - a Nitro 470 that ate S&Cs and wouldn鈥檛 stay in tune and a R29X that seemed very nice, both for an evaluation. Crossbows depreciate quickly, especially top end ones. However, a great scope is like a great wife - a lifetime companion. Even just an XBR.

I鈥檓 just sharing these facts, thoughts. A SWAT of any series, great arrows, good or outstanding optics are all that I want or need. We don鈥檛 have to spend an arm and a leg. Even the 鈥渓owly鈥 XBR equaled a top of the line scope. And, this weekend, an X1, once again, won another tournament.

Just some thoughts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Your testing was probably more real world than mine. The only thing I would do different is set all the scopes to same magnification. Whatever is lowest maximum power. If your "smallest" scope is a 1.5-5x, set them all at 5x.
I tried a real world test: variable scopes optimized, crossbow specific scopes on likely speed settings.
 

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I'm not faulting anyones means of testing. I have found that real life testing on live deer to be the most accurate way.

I'll try and make this short :). I had a scope that i tested a good bit. That seemed to be good in low light. One evening waiting on my target buck i was looking a deer at 40 yards. I was practicing aiming at the deer, ranging and aiming as the end of shooting light disappeared. When it got pretty late i aimed at this small buck and pretended to shoot. Then i looked at the deer with the Leica rangefinder with much better glass. I was shocked at what i saw. While i would have hit the deer and probably killed it. The angle the scope told me the buck was at was off. I confirmed going back and forth between the RF and Scope.

The next day the traditional Crossbow scope came off. And the Vortex XBR scope and optimizer was back on. That evening same place same times. I did the same test with a huge difference. The XBR showed me more later than the Leica RF. The RF still did its job and told me the range. The scope did its job and gave me a good sight picture of the deer. And the optimizer gave me a dialed shot to the yard. Right up until i couldn't see.
 

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The Razor that Steve has is well worth the money to these old eyes. The picture quality, the low light management, the control of the LED in all respecsts, the weight, the magnification and the uncluttered view makes this scope perfect for my needs. It is without a doubt better in all respects to my VX-5HD. Perhaps a Leica or Swarovski is better but the price jump is a real jump!
 

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Would anyone please explain to me this hunting technique?

Its just to cut a lane in the forest and expect the animals walk along it in front of my scope?

Thanks,
Atb
Sews setup looks really good to me. It appears to my eye hes elevated either by the lay of the land a elevated blind or both. It looks like a trail probably a 4 wheeler or SXS and a 2nd trail intersecting coming from the right. So it's probably been there for awhile, and the deer are used to it mostly speaking about adult Bucks/Does. I'm not a fan of cutting shooting lanes unless there maintained and aged.

Deer like to use aged SXS trails. I run cameras on my trails all the time. I get Yotes Bobcats Bucks and tons of does and just about everything else. Use of some bait/salt or lure helps getting them to pause if there just crossing.

I give it a A+ for a deer killing set up.
 

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I'm not faulting anyones means of testing. I have found that real life testing on live deer to be the most accurate way.

I'll try and make this short :). I had a scope that i tested a good bit. That seemed to be good in low light. One evening waiting on my target buck i was looking a deer at 40 yards. I was practicing aiming at the deer, ranging and aiming as the end of shooting light disappeared. When it got pretty late i aimed at this small buck and pretended to shoot. Then i looked at the deer with the Leica rangefinder with much better glass. I was shocked at what i saw. While i would have hit the deer and probably killed it. The angle the scope told me the buck was at was off. I confirmed going back and forth between the RF and Scope.

The next day the traditional Crossbow scope came off. And the Vortex XBR scope and optimizer was back on. That evening same place same times. I did the same test with a huge difference. The XBR showed me more later than the Leica RF. The RF still did its job and told me the range. The scope did its job and gave me a good sight picture of the deer. And the optimizer gave me a dialed shot to the yard. Right up until i couldn't see.
Good to hear the XBR has glass that compares to your Leica RF.
 

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Would anyone please explain to me this hunting technique?

Its just to cut a lane in the forest and expect the animals walk along it in front of my scope?

Thanks,
Atb
I don't cut walking trails but I do cut any limbs or small branches that block me from making a shot out to 30 or 40 yards. I first take a pole saw in and cut branches out of the way then I will go back each year or so with a set of hand trimmers and trim the lanes back up when stuff starts getting in the way. That is why they are called "shooting lanes".
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
wow....i guess i did not realize the cost of the Vortex Razor models.................... 馃槺
Razor scopes have a wide range of costs even for comparable magnifications . From < advertised retail of < $1800 to ~ $3600. That鈥檚 a wide range. These incredible scopes can usually be found for 65-70% of suggested retail. Slightly, more off with military discounts.

Not until I experienced a high quality scope a few years ago, I just didn鈥檛 understand. Now, I see them as a long term investment. And the Razors are light: 42 mm, 3x15 - 19.1 oz, 50 mm 20.5. Vortex is pretty hard to beat in the light weight arena.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Those are logging trails that I made with a JD 450C bulldozer 35 years ago. At the time, I planned the elevated permanent blind. All are over 100 yards long: E, SE, W. I now try to leave them undisturbed and natural.
 

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The Razor that Steve has is well worth the money to these old eyes. The picture quality, the low light management, the control of the LED in all respecsts, the weight, the magnification and the uncluttered view makes this scope perfect for my needs. It is without a doubt better in all respects to my VX-5HD. Perhaps a Leica or Swarovski is better but the price jump is a real jump!
Funny ... I shot a Razor on one of the pro projects about 5 years back. No clue what grade of Razor it was. Most of the custom .223Rem 1/4MOA guns are topped with older Leupold 3.5-14x scopes. The 3-15x Razor was "nice" but all of the shooters on the team agreed that it was no better than the old Leupolds.
 

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Funny ... I shot a Razor on one of the pro projects about 5 years back. No clue what grade of Razor it was. Most of the custom .223Rem 1/4MOA guns are topped with older Leupold 3.5-14x scopes. The 3-15x Razor was "nice" but all of the shooters on the team agreed that it was no better than the old Leupolds.
I agree, it is funny.:ROFLMAO:
 
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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
I don鈥檛 have much experience with upper level scopes.

There are guts and glass. We see glass differences immediately, especially in low light.
However, tracking, holding zero and not breaking are not so obvious. And warrenty, weight, etc take more time to evaluate. The Vortex scopes seem quite good in all of these areas.

The majority of smokeless MLing shooters seem to like really heavy loads (not me!) such as 45 cal 300-350g bullets going 2,900-3,800鈥/sec馃槼. Scope destroyers. Few scopes can handle this abuse(IMO). Leupolds seem to not be used nor respected by these shooters , but the HD5s seem to have some respect. Crossbows can stress a scope鈥檚 internals also. In this regard, the Vortex scopes seem to more than hold their own. Glass-wise, even the 鈥渓owly鈥 XBR out performed the much more expensive and respected Zeiss Duralyt 2x8 lighted. And, was equal the 50mm Razor at 50 yards And, was only slightly behind the Razor at 200 yards.
 

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I don鈥檛 have much experience with upper level scopes.

There are guts and glass. We see glass differences immediately, especially in low light.
However, tracking, holding zero and not breaking are not so obvious. And warrenty, weight, etc take more time to evaluate. The Vortex scopes seem quite good in all of these areas.

The majority of smokeless MLing shooters seem to like really heavy loads (not me!) such as 45 cal 300-350g bullets going 2,900-3,800鈥/sec馃槼. Scope destroyers. Few scopes can handle this abuse(IMO). Leupolds seem to not be used nor respected by these shooters , but the HD5s seem to have some respect. Crossbows can stress a scope鈥檚 internals also. In this regard, the Vortex scopes seem to more than hold their own. Glass-wise, even the 鈥渓owly鈥 XBR out performed the much more expensive and respected Zeiss Duralyt 2x8 lighted. And, was equal the 50mm Razor at 50 yards And, was only slightly behind the Razor at 200 yards.
My 3 XBR's aren't going anywhere!
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 · (Edited)
I knew the XBR was good, but didn鈥檛 know just how good until I did a low light comparison against the well respected Zeiss Duralyt 2x8 and the excellent Razor 50 mm 3x15 set on 10x.

The XBR on an Optimizer, Tetra or a JP is at a right height, can be turret dialed or dial a range dialed or used quickly with the mildots when set on 5x or 10x. A little practice with the mildots is all it takes to become comfortable with them.

With the XBR, either the mildots or a dialed-in range and the center crosshair can be used.
 

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I knew the XBR was good, but didn鈥檛 know just how good until I did a low light comparison against the well respected Zeiss Duralyt 2x8 and the excellent Razor 50 mm 3x15 set on 10x.

The XBR on an Optimizer, Tetra or a JP is at a right height, can be turret dialed or dial a range dialed or used quickly with the mildots when set on 5x or 10x. A little practice with the mildots is all it takes to become comfortable with them.

With the XBR, either the mildots of a dialed-in range and the center crosshair can be used.
Huge reason I love them. They can be used several ways depending on the situation at hand. I have two of mine dialed in out to 80 yards, with the turret, but need more practice to get good with the dots. I keep mine on 5 power most of the time and getting the dots lined up with range is my goal this off season.
 

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I agree ... the XBR is the best crossbow scope available. I'm running one on my Ravin R29X and another on my Ten Point Nitro 505. I'm very pleased with them.
 
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