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These are what I'm rolling into Winter Archery with, Monster X bolts.. Just not sure if I'm going with the Monster X CS Bolt or just the Monster X.. both hit like a brick and killer accurate.



Mon X 24 573.jpg
Monster CP 2.jpg
 

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What shafts are you using in the Monster X bolt? .300id with 11.5 gpi I havent seen yet. Carbon Tech?
 

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I had to double check, but they're using a CT bolt. Its a cool looking shaft.. Seem to be very durable..
 

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I had another custom bolt choice that was a little less money , a Black Eagle, but I decided to try these out.
I talked to Rick from CT many times about that arrow, way, way too expensive and frankly I found there were no better than black eagle. I ended up going with black eagle for my spynal tapps, one of the best choices I have made in the last 16 years
 

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I talked to Rick from CT many times about that arrow, way, way too expensive and frankly I found there were no better than black eagle.
Did Rick mention this bolt is basically the big brother to the Rhino .243ID shaft ? And anyone who is into arrows at all knows a Carnivore can't hold candle to a CT Rhino in terms of durability So, you can't compare the 2 shafts cause it is not apples to apples.. If I wanted something a little flatter flying, sure I would shoot an Executioner, but when testing the Monster X bolt at 540gn vs a Factory Zombie Slayer at 40 gns less the Monster Bolts shot flatter starting at 60yrds out to 85yrds by 2-3 inches higher impact. The Zombie at 50 yrs at 423gn vs the 24inch 573gn Monster X bolt, the Zombie only shot but a few inches higher..

As far as price, the Monster bolt if like the Rhino that is a shaft that could last 5 years easy.. I dont think the prices were all that bad on the Monster X, I expect it to be more than factory..

Bada** isn't cheap, and cheap isn't bada**
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I did have a choice in a custom build BE Ex bolt, Spine located, with all Firenock components which is a nice build, but prefer to try these out
 

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Did Rick mention this bolt is basically the big brother to the Rhino .243ID shaft ? And anyone who is into arrows at all knows a Carnivore can't hold candle to a CT Rhino in terms of durability So, you can't compare the 2 shafts cause it is not apples to apples.. If I wanted something a little flatter flying, sure I would shoot an Executioner, but when testing the Monster X bolt at 540gn vs a Factory Zombie Slayer at 40 gns less the Monster Bolts shot flatter starting at 60yrds out to 85yrds by 2-3 inches higher impact. The Zombie at 50 yrs at 423gn vs the 24inch 573gn Monster X bolt, the Zombie only shot but a few inches higher..

As far as price, the Monster bolt if like the Rhino that is a shaft that could last 5 years easy.. I dont think the prices were all that bad on the Monster X, I expect it to be more than factory..

Bada** isn't cheap, and cheap isn't bada**
You are correct Carnivores should not be compared to the CT Rhino, totally different arrow.

Its all in what each person likes, I wasnt trying to challenge your choice I just ment I too looked at the CT arrows and decided to go a different way for my proprietary arrows the spynal tapps.

Good luck with the Monster shafts Im sure they will serve you well.
 

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Do not underestimate Black Eagles....:cool:
I think Black Eagle makes a nice bolt, I shot them too.. it is a lighter weight bolt. The CT shaft however is an extremely durable shaft. The Cheetah, Whitetail and Rhino in its on class is a very good arrow. The CT Bolt shaft follows like the Rhino, but in Cross bow world.. Is it more money, yes, is it on the heavier side, yes. Some guys like shooting heavy while other like shooting light weight and it quiets down the bow a lot... For me in my practical shooting this year 0-50 yrds the difference of the one arrow being flatter shooting is not significant enough warrant going to a less durable arrow for a few inches. I'd rather just throw the train at the deer and have a bolt that may be with me 5-6 years later just to get re fletched and make sure spine location has not moved.. Than maybe the price is justified..

The Black Eagle Ex slicked out is a nice running shaft in concept system or SS inserts.
 

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You are correct Carnivores should not be compared to the CT Rhino, totally different arrow.

Its all in what each person likes, I wasnt trying to challenge your choice I just ment I too looked at the CT arrows and decided to go a different way for my proprietary arrows the spynal tapps.

Good luck with the Monster shafts Im sure they will serve you well.

Thanks Yoda!
 

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The CT shaft however is an extremely durable shaft. The Cheetah, Whitetail and Rhino in its on class is a very good arrow.
There is no doubt about the durability of the shafts Rick Makes. He does the real thing when it comes to the weave, no other company on the planet makes shafts like him, fact is his weave process is proprietary!

I have actually have extremely good success with the durability of my spynal tapps but have had concerns over the last couple of years with the speed of the new bows getting well over 400 fps.

I am about to release a new insert system that has 400% more strength and improved dampening of the oscillation during flight at the insert end and double the strength at the nock end yet keep the weight within 3 or 4 grains of the existing shaft.

I have a question for you. One of my concerns is the rough surface causing a slight inconsistency from shaft to shaft on the rail of the crossbow. Have you completed any group consistency testing at 60-100 yards
 

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These are what I'm rolling into Winter Archery with, Monster X bolts.. Just not sure if I'm going with the Monster X CS Bolt or just the Monster X.. both hit like a brick and killer accurate.



View attachment 91329


I'm just gonna point somethin out if were comparing anything to Zombie Slayer carbon shafts. On this target you haven't hit once where you probably were aiming. There is not "1" dead nutz poi hit on that target. So I see nothing killer accurate going on on this target even if they were 150yd shots.
Just being truthful. Every crossbow arrow hits like a brick.lol Show us what 9 monster x arrows can do on that target at 50yds in a video in order. There's 9 good aim points on that target. You guys make some great videos. If your gonna make claims about something new and, charge a fortune for it lets see what you have for real. Then I'll buy some.
Using AV3's I extremely doubt any form of killer accuracy what-so-ever on a hunting arrow. Hey you got my attention but, I'm just a doubting Thomas when it comes too xbow arrows. Prove me wrong is all I'm asking.
 

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I'm just gonna point somethin out if were comparing anything to Zombie Slayer carbon shafts. On this target you haven't hit once where you probably were aiming. There is not "1" dead nutz poi hit on that target. So I see nothing killer accurate going on on this target even if they were 150yd shots.
Just being truthful. Every crossbow arrow hits like a brick.lol Show us what 9 monster x arrows can do on that target at 50yds in a video in order. There's 9 good aim points on that target. You guys make some great videos. If your gonna make claims about something new and, charge a fortune for it lets see what you have for real. Then I'll buy some.
Using AV3's I extremely doubt any form of killer accuracy what-so-ever on a hunting arrow. Hey you got my attention but, I'm just a doubting Thomas when it comes too xbow arrows. Prove me wrong is all I'm asking.[/QUOTE]
 

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All shafts that I know of have a coating on the OD which can varie in grind. Although the shaft may appear not smooth do to the weave look the shaft is like butter, it actually feels slick. The test bolts shot from 30-80 yrds darn near shot shot same hole within an inch, we dont shoot more than one bolt at the same spot. There was no absolutely center in impact as it would be a waste of time as I was testing 4 different bolt types, but if you notice there are a cluster of holes in the target tightly together. No one complains when they see a tight 3 hole shot group on rifle targets hey..So I did pick 1 aiming point but to see in relation what bolt did what compared to the other.. The numbers from 50-80yrds above were posted, that a heavier built bolt shot flatter out to 80yrds than the lesser weight bolt.. I dont think this is all that uncommon as I do also recall when testing was done with Aero Bolt II G that 575gn bolt was within an inch or 2 at 60yards when comparing to a 400 or 425 gn bolt at the time. the 30 -80yrd testing is also a very realistic yardage for many X bow hunters. The point that I made that they hit like bricks, the bolts were over 500gn 1 build neared 575gn.. Compared to a 423gn bolt, what you expect...lol!

If you don't think AV3 are any good, well that could be your experience. Since your are able to locate videos, I'm sure you have located the instagram feed where I test shot the new 2.0 system with a 3 shot group in wind using vertical bow. Just be sure to zoom in on each video, the 2.25 inch group is a little hard to see at 92.86 yards. There is a follow up close up pic though.. I specially put the videos up on Instagram since the viewer can bring the screen up..

I seen a post, I dont know if it was here or archery talk about a long insert, not sure if that was you or not.. and I'm sure youre are getting good results from your tap arrow, never said you weren't, probably a real nice bolt to shoot. However I can see where a long insert would stiffen the frontal end of the shaft up making it more durable to a point. I dont think that it would be like a concept system though.. If the insert is just a longer version of an insert that it would function as a big insert being a separate component. example if you have a 24 inch bolt and a 4 insert that is really just a 20 inch bolt and 4 inch broad head or point. The shaft and the insert do not act as one since the insert although providing stiffness will not flex in conjunction with the shaft working with the elasticity of the glue where as the carbon concept tube does. IF the long insert were to function with any of the shaft oscillations / flexing that occurs over time the insert can weaken and we all know what happens when you bend metal back and forth, it breaks So, either the insert is solid and doesn't move providing a degree of durability or the insert is a flexing to get better performance , but over time will likely lead to failure. Which of the 2 is it? Didn't Easton try this with arrows, dont think it ended up as they thought it would?
 

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BTW,, just to touch on the exterior of the shafts not being accurate per say,, which shafts I have experience that are not CT vary in OD,, anyone who has put outserts on knows some go on a little easier and some not so easy.. Another good point is, who has it down for snotting the rails up, coating is, consistent, by , hand...Just saying..
 

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All shafts that I know of have a coating on the OD which can varie in grind. Although the shaft may appear not smooth do to the weave look the shaft is like butter, it actually feels slick. The test bolts shot from 30-80 yrds darn near shot shot same hole within an inch, we dont shoot more than one bolt at the same spot. There was no absolutely center in impact as it would be a waste of time as I was testing 4 different bolt types, but if you notice there are a cluster of holes in the target tightly together. No one complains when they see a tight 3 hole shot group on rifle targets hey..So I did pick 1 aiming point but to see in relation what bolt did what compared to the other.. The numbers from 50-80yrds above were posted, that a heavier built bolt shot flatter out to 80yrds than the lesser weight bolt.. I dont think this is all that uncommon as I do also recall when testing was done with Aero Bolt II G that 575gn bolt was within an inch or 2 at 60yards when comparing to a 400 or 425 gn bolt at the time. the 30 -80yrd testing is also a very realistic yardage for many X bow hunters. The point that I made that they hit like bricks, the bolts were over 500gn 1 build neared 575gn.. Compared to a 423gn bolt, what you expect...lol!

I know for a fact that my 418gr arrows would send my AV2's into that target.lol Hitting like bricks is directly proportional to how fast it's launched. Here's a hitting like bricks arrow test for all. Take a brand new 18" x 10" blob target and, shoot your broadhead into it at 30yds. If the broadhead pokes out the backside on the first shot you indeed have a setup that smacks a target like a brick.lol



If you don't think AV3 are any good, well that could be your experience.

Note exactly my comment: Using AV3's I extremely doubt any form of killer accuracy what-so-ever on a hunting arrow. Hunting arrow means a broadhead and, we are hunters here and, I stand by my statement. That was hashed out years ago by many.


Since your are able to locate videos, I'm sure you have located the instagram feed where I test shot the new 2.0 system with a 3 shot group in wind using vertical bow. Just be sure to zoom in on each video, the 2.25 inch group is a little hard to see at 92.86 yards. There is a follow up close up pic though.. I specially put the videos up on Instagram since the viewer can bring the screen up..

I seen a post, I dont know if it was here or archery talk about a long insert, not sure if that was you or not.. and I'm sure youre are getting good results from your tap arrow, never said you weren't, probably a real nice bolt to shoot. However I can see where a long insert would stiffen the frontal end of the shaft up making it more durable to a point. I dont think that it would be like a concept system though.. If the insert is just a longer version of an insert that it would function as a big insert being a separate component. example if you have a 24 inch bolt and a 4 insert that is really just a 20 inch bolt and 4 inch broad head or point. The shaft and the insert do not act as one since the insert although providing stiffness will not flex in conjunction with the shaft working with the elasticity of the glue where as the carbon concept tube does. IF the long insert were to function with any of the shaft oscillations / flexing that occurs over time the insert can weaken and we all know what happens when you bend metal back and forth, it breaks So, either the insert is solid and doesn't move providing a degree of durability or the insert is a flexing to get better performance , but over time will likely lead to failure. Which of the 2 is it? Didn't Easton try this with arrows, dont think it ended up as they thought it would?
Durability test: I'm still shooting the same glued in carbon insert Zombie Slayer shafts I shot back in 2013. From 2010 to 2013 I used Aluminum shafts as a glued in insert system without issue also. These all were launched from 425fps on up too.

So your not up to the challenge? Been a long time since my interest has been piqued about arrows. Just because a arrow has more gpi weight to it doesn't mean it's a stiffer shaft either. Case in point Laser4/Nitro's. Do a hand flex test between a Zombie and, a Monster X. Tell me what you feel.
 

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Hey Crappie...

Tell you what I feel? Ok.. I feel that you do not really know how to read and mentally comprehend what I have listed above, meaning you're not picking up what I'm putting down.. Let me try an dumb this down for you since I know this is not easy to understand sometimes..

My heavier weighted bolt ( the thing that gets shot from my cross bow ) shoots flatter out to at extended distances noticeably starting at 60yrds at 80 yrds it is a 2-3 inches higher impact height than a lesser weight bolt of 30-40 gns less.. Cross bow shot from was a Scorpyd Vent 150. The other bolt used in the test, was a Black Eagle Zombie Slayer ..

Also, regarding the insert. You also missed that part on how the carbon inner tube acts as one with the glue having elasticity to help do that and provide adhesion between the carbon inner tube and the shaft while still at a low weight and still provide stiffness. BTW,, " hand flex"..LMAO! Bolts get put under an extreme stress when fired, that would be like me handing you a bow limb and saying " flex it ", but it is bent rather easy when cams and risers are put into the equation. Now, I may be wrong, but,,,,, I think BE bolts I've heard the Executioners are approx 200 spine, not sure what the Zombie Slayers are,but if similar to thje Ex bolt the CT Bolt comes in at .170 if I recall right according to CT specs.. If so, the Zombie slayer is not a stiffer bolt ..

If you care to answer the question based on the long insert have at it, you can also answer my question of since the front of a shaft is further stiffened with a metal insert at any length and some shafts regardless of type can break on impact since that is can be the weak spot does that mean since the longer insert puts its back closer to the natural bending point of the shaft where it can be the weakest does that mean overtime to the shaft during oscillation if inserts weakens can or will cause the first dynamic bend to change and cause the a more ideal spot in the shaft to break, beings the breaking point is than moved back? Maybe you are asking the wrong questions, to the wrong poster and wrong " claims "... ;)

Did I say a Zombie Slayer wasn't durable at all?, no., Did I say because of GPI it is more durable, now you're are making false implications about what I said, cause doing that is credible hey., not... Imo I think the Monster Bolt is more durable, Yoda kinda already implied that Carbon Tech's design IS very durable... I am glad you have had good success with your Zombie Slayer, They build those as well, along with Executioners in Bolts and vertical bow arrows, I like them shafts too.

Had I knew I was going to be under a microscope here, I would of posted something about my broad head being " the best "... o_O All good though..

This was one of the shots at 80yrds between the Monster X bolt and the factory Zombie Slayer..
Heavier weight, vanes with less drag, better components..

80 yrds Monster.jpg
 

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Here I"ll be nice. Practice makes us all better. What your seeing is most likely a larger shaft OD on the Monster x and, different vanes not too mention a main factor: I still don't see ANY arrow hitting anywhere near where it should. Just my opinion tho.
 

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Here I"ll be nice. Practice makes us all better. What your seeing is most likely a larger shaft OD on the Monster x and, different vanes not too mention a main factor: I still don't see ANY arrow hitting anywhere near where it should. Just my opinion tho.
The intention was not to keep adjusting scope till it hit exact center as I could of done that with both bolts and no difference would of been seen other than me listing scope adjustments. This was just an impact height vs impact height difference. I did mention this in one of my above comments. This was showing the differences of 2 bolts of what can be done with a heavier bolt uses better components vs factory in a lesser weight bolt.

I do agree, practice makes perfect though!

( " There was no absolutely center in impact as it would be a waste of time as I was testing 4 different bolt types, ")
 
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