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:D:D Jealousy will get you nowhere!
Blah, blah, blah..馃槣馃槀..
THE Ohio State University...like there's another one..馃馃槣馃槀..
We win every once in awhile...so I have to live with that..
I do thoroughly enjoy watching dancing acorns get their a## whipped most of time if and when it comes down the playoffs... hahaha..
That's why I'm glad we don't make it, we're simply not good enough and probably never will be as long as Franklin is running things....but hey, it could be worse, I could be a Rutgers Alumni 馃
 
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EXACTLY ... nobody controls deer herds with archery alone to begin with. But, archery is an easy sell to "society" because they feel it's "fair chase" and of course there isn't the media vilification of firearms present. It's always made me laugh because the wounding rate and "suffering animal" incidents are higher than with firearms. Plus, with it basically being one shot at a time, 6 deer come in you kill one and educate 5. Gets harder and harder every kill. I've sat in the middle of homes not 75' away with a .223Rem dropping a pile of deer where they stand safely, quietly and with zero drama. Disregarding that, "mature" programs suffer different criteria as time goes by. A superbly run program generates a lot of interest initially, but once the boomer bucks are dead you lose many of the "better hunters." Once there's some success and it takes a lot more time to kill a deer, you lose a lot of the poorer hunters. You need a strong, dedicated leadership to keep it going after that. DMP's are the perfect example of the Pereto Principle. 20% of your participants will kill 80% of the deer. Conversely, 20% of participants will cause 80% of whatever headaches occur...lol
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Right on my friend...
We HAD a good leader in the beginning...not sure what happened..maybe his acquisition of a lease in Ohio, a lease in Georgia and too many trips to Kansas screwed him up...right now I'd settle on him stepping down..worst thing is, he posts a couple videos on FB..I can see the does standing off to the side, well within range, while he's watching some nice buck that won't commit to coming in range..
 

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Blah, blah, blah..馃槣馃槀..
THE Ohio State University...like there's another one..馃馃槣馃槀..
We win every once in awhile...so I have to live with that..
I do thoroughly enjoy watching dancing acorns get their a## whipped most of time if and when it comes down the playoffs... hahaha..
That's why I'm glad we don't make it, we're simply not good enough and probably never will be as long as Franklin is running things....but hey, it could be worse, I could be a Rutgers Alumni 馃
3-3 in the playoffs isn鈥檛 terrible I guess. But I hope you guys never fire Franklin. He鈥檚 4th on my list of ppl I love to beat:

Harbaugh
Whatever poor soul is coaching the fighting Catholics
Dabo
James Franklin
 
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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
The major ... problem can be that these farms are in heavily populated areas where the deer come out of housing, parks and areas inaccessible to hunting, hammer the famer's fields, then go back to the sanctuaries. A deer consumes 7-8lbs of vegetation a day. Take my guy's 23 deer, that's over half ton of crop per week, almost 3 TONS in a month! Or, picture 3 tons of prize petunias being eaten in wealthy neighborhoods where those rich people have political clout...lol To hunters, they see every deer as a potential 18pt wall hanger buck that will have them a legend & bragged about for decades. To a farmer they see deer as 180lb rats taking food off their tables and stealing their mortage payments.

As for herds "bouncing back," an unchecked deer herd, given the habitat & nutrition, will increase in size 40% a year!!! A farmer with 20 deer eating this crops this year doubles to 40 deer two years later, and in just 3 seasons is up to almost 60 deer. Some of the most surprised, and taken back looks I've gotten during meetings with communities and landowners who have gone through hell to get to the point of actually killing the deer wrecking their property, is when I tell them "deer management is FOREVER." You can't drop a herd down to carrying capacity of the habitat, then think you're done. It's all over. The problem went away. 40% per year adds up fast. I've seen more than a few places where they quit after three years of a professional solution got the deer under control. The community stopped the cost. Only to be overrun again with deer and looking for help 4 years later.

My last "fun fact" is hunters claiming "all the deer are dead." Biologists consider 15 to 20 deer/mile the maximum carrying capacity for good habitat. Just for reference they think that the land was carrying about 9 deer per mile when the Pilgrams landed here in 1620. When you have 25-30 deer per mile hunters don't see deer. It takes experienced hunters willing to kill does approximately 38-40 hours in the woods to kill one deer at 30/mile. They might not see a single deer in a day. Hunters want 50-60 deer per mile to have an enjoyable hunting experience... to see enough deer to keep them happy. You can see the major clash or conundrum in the situation. Biologists, farmers, landowners, insurance companies want 15. Hunters want 60+!!! That's one reason that even successful deer management programs eventually fail. If you CAN manage to reduce the herd using firearms, archery and even professional sharp shooters, the problem is "maintaining" the herd at those low densities. Keeping fannies in the trees when the boomer bucks are dead and you have to sit 38 hours to kill one deer. The participants quit and go hunt at Uncle Joe's cabin they see deer and might kill a decent buck.
Your right. Its greed mostly. All about that paper in the bank. Its what ruined this country and will continue to do so.
 

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Most states will only issue deer control/crop damage permits after they have had a wildlife person go to the farm and determine there is significant crop damage. The farmer is an entrepreneur and needs to make a profit and therefore should be allowed to limit crop damage. If the state wants more doe's killed then they should make every hunter kill one or two does before they can get a buck tag. Some states have this rule and call it earn a buck tag. If you want to decrease the herd then taking does instead of bucks is the way to go because if you kill a buck, you kill one deer but when you kill a doe you kill one doe and one or two fawns next year and every year thereafter.
 

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Most states will only issue deer control/crop damage permits after they have had a wildlife person go to the farm and determine there is significant crop damage. The farmer is an entrepreneur and needs to make a profit and therefore should be allowed to limit crop damage. If the state wants more doe's killed then they should make every hunter kill one or two does before they can get a buck tag. Some states have this rule and call it earn a buck tag. If you want to decrease the herd then taking does instead of bucks is the way to go because if you kill a buck, you kill one deer but when you kill a doe you kill one doe and one or two fawns next year and every year thereafter.
I hear that Illinois did this in state parks up to about a decade ago. It seems to have knocked the herd down and with the constant follow up pressure the "browse lines" (per what the more experienced hunters tell me) are way better nowadays.
 

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I hear that Illinois did this in state parks up to about a decade ago. It seems to have knocked the herd down and with the constant follow up pressure the "browse lines" (per what the more experienced hunters tell me) are way better nowadays.
6' high ... I've shot deer & pigs for the US Air Force and every tree on their base was stripped bare about 6' high. You could see a hundred yards once you got passed the edge vegetation.
Sky Cloud Plant Tree Table
Plant Sky Tree Natural landscape Fruit
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Most states will only issue deer control/crop damage permits after they have had a wildlife person go to the farm and determine there is significant crop damage. The farmer is an entrepreneur and needs to make a profit and therefore should be allowed to limit crop damage. If the state wants more doe's killed then they should make every hunter kill one or two does before they can get a buck tag. Some states have this rule and call it earn a buck tag. If you want to decrease the herd then taking does instead of bucks is the way to go because if you kill a buck, you kill one deer but when you kill a doe you kill one doe and one or two fawns next year and every year thereafter.
Im pretty sure they will limit the amount of tags per property as needed.

As long as they are actually going by the amount of crop damage per property and not just handing an unlimited amount of tags out. And the commission are actually keeping the properties under control. Which doesnt happen right now. It wont be too bad.

They should allow mentors to shoot a doe and allow youth hunters more than one doe permit.

And it takes 2 to tango. No buck you have no reproduction. So you shoot one buck you loose more than 1 deer. That buck breeds as many doe as he can.
 

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Im pretty sure they will limit the amount of tags per property as needed.

As long as they are actually going by the amount of crop damage per property and not just handing an unlimited amount of tags out. And the commission are actually keeping the properties under control. Which doesnt happen right now. It wont be too bad.

They should allow mentors to shoot a doe and allow youth hunters more than one doe permit.

And it takes 2 to tango. No buck you have no reproduction. So you shoot one buck you loose more than 1 deer. That buck breeds as many doe as he can.
So there鈥檚 No regs out? Just a 鈥渘ews鈥 article you originally posted?

About bucks, you answered your own question to a degree. One buck can breed many does, so another buck will breed all those does for the one buck that鈥檚 gone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
So there鈥檚 No regs out? Just a 鈥渘ews鈥 article you originally posted?

About bucks, you answered your own question to a degree. One buck can breed many does, so another buck will breed all those does for the one buck that鈥檚 gone.
Nothing new listed yet that I can find.
 

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The Bureau is only one of the problems.

They state this will give farmers better control of the herd. I have to laugh at that. How about it will allow hunters to eliminate the herd is more like it. 4 deer per hunter and how many hunters will be allowed to hunt per farm?
Fawns will have 0 chance to make it. Including what the farmer shoots and what is shot during the regular season. I can see this turning into a big mess in a hurry. 85% of the red tag hunting I've seen and heard about in PA is done shooting from a vehicle right at dark.
Its 4 tags per property not per hunter.
 
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