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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all, great forum here. I recently decided to jump back into crossbow ownership, mostly because i was so intrigued by the Ravin after handling them at a shop. Some background, i am a long time firearms shooter, with a focus on precision shooting, as well as a competition archer in both target and 3D, and I hunt.

I've got about 75 arrows downrange out of my R20 S. Factory strings. I have checked and re-checked every screw and bolt on the bow, including the Jack plate.

1) I find my poi wanders left and right (usually right) with no reason. I'm religious about the level and I think I have very good shooting technique, no flinch and a good trigger squeeze. I can feel some *very slight* barely discernable side to side movement of my nock when cocked.
2) Ran 18 shots through my Chrono today, paying careful attention to make sure my cocking pin was in the same position after cranking. My spread was 5 fps with my average at 425.6. Is 5 fps typical variance? Seems like alot.
3) Cams are timed well, cables between the dots but slightly towards front dots.

I feel like this bow will stack shots nicely for 4 or 5 shots, then wander left and right (1"-1.5" at 25yds) for no apparent reason. Its making me a bit crazy, because I can usually sight in a rifle in 3 or 4 shots and a bow in a half dozen shots. This thing is a head scratcher.

Thanks for any ideas or advice.
 

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Markjnk,
First of all, welcome to our Ravin CBN forum.
I suspect your R20 string center serving is allowing you nock to slide laterally. I've found the best way to check this is to merely nock an arrow on the string with the bow Uncocked. Try to visually center the arrow between the rail edges and snap the nock on the string. Now slightly try to slide the nock on the center serving. If it slides easily, that's the reason for your windage error. Don't force it to slide but rather just give it a light nudge.
As many experienced Ravin shooter have discovered, a con of the Ravin railless design is that there's no rail arrow channel to guide the rear of the arrow as it's launched. Hence, if the nock easily slides on the center serving and the cams aren't perfectly synched, you can experience inconsistent left/right POI.
This can be fixed by reserving your center serving or replacing your string.
Some of us perfectionist even goto the trouble of double serving the center serving with integral nock ties between layers to provide a longer lasting solution to this problem.
I also have made a nock centering tool that can help with this. This tools can be used to make a nock impression on a new string center serving which is slightly larger in diameter than the nock throat.
 

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Hi all, great forum here. I recently decided to jump back into crossbow ownership, mostly because i was so intrigued by the Ravin after handling them at a shop. Some background, i am a long time firearms shooter, with a focus on precision shooting, as well as a competition archer in both target and 3D, and I hunt.

I've got about 75 arrows downrange out of my R20 S. Factory strings. I have checked and re-checked every screw and bolt on the bow, including the Jack plate.

1) I find my poi wanders left and right (usually right) with no reason. I'm religious about the level and I think I have very good shooting technique, no flinch and a good trigger squeeze. I can feel some *very slight* barely discernable side to side movement of my nock when cocked.
2) Ran 18 shots through my Chrono today, paying careful attention to make sure my cocking pin was in the same position after cranking. My spread was 5 fps with my average at 425.6. Is 5 fps typical variance? Seems like alot.
3) Cams are timed well, cables between the dots but slightly towards front dots.

I feel like this bow will stack shots nicely for 4 or 5 shots, then wander left and right (1"-1.5" at 25yds) for no apparent reason. Its making me a bit crazy, because I can usually sight in a rifle in 3 or 4 shots and a bow in a half dozen shots. This thing is a head scratcher.

Thanks for any ideas or advice.
Markjnk, I too am a perfectionist on accuracy consistency. I too have been a long range shooter for a long time. I was a Spec Ops Sniper in Vietnam and hunted caribou and Moose in Alaska at extended ranges. I have an R10 and just got an R20 Sniper. I have used Bigbird's nock tool and nocked strings. I think he is right on the money with what he has told you. I also use Spynal Tapp Custom arrows and Ravin nocks and get dime groups at 100 yards. As a distance shooter you would agree I think, that all the variants matter in consistency and that is true of the R20. I think you have a serving slippage issue as Bigbird says.
 

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Markjnk, I too am a perfectionist on accuracy consistency. I too have been a long range shooter for a long time. I was a Spec Ops Sniper in Vietnam and hunted caribou and Moose in Alaska at extended ranges. I have an R10 and just got an R20 Sniper. I have used Bigbird's nock tool and nocked strings. I think he is right on the money with what he has told you. I also use Spynal Tapp Custom arrows and Ravin nocks and get dime groups at 100 yards. As a distance shooter you would agree I think, that all the variants matter in consistency and that is true of the R20. I think you have a serving slippage issue as Bigbird says.
I think the Ravin arrows are not the best either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks Gentlemen for your replies. I will be looking at the serving and assessing how much play my nock has. That does seem like a likely reason for my windage issues. I assume that tying on any kind of knocking points would interfere with the way the carriage hooks onto the string reliably?

I noticed that nobody addressed the 5 fps variance in speed? Is this because it is normal? Really most shots are between 425fps and 427fps, with a couple spread further to 423 and 428fps.

I really dont think the arrows are to blame, there is nothing wrong with the Ravin arrows in my opinion. From my competetive archery experience, the Ravin arrows are built well with consistent weights and good quality vanes, and will go where you point them providing all else is on the mark. The practical difference in accuracy between an .001" arrow and an .003" arrow is so small, that 99% of people will not see the difference under normal shooting situations.
 

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There's a Whole Lot of difference in arrows.
.001 vs. .003 straighteness is the least of your worries. There's also a ton of info. on CBN about arrows. You just need to take the time to search for it.
Think of it this way. When you squeeze the trigger on a R20, the amount of force applied to an arrow is tremendous. This means each arrow has to react exactly the same for long range accuracy.
This in turn means spine stiffness needs to be matched as well as stiff plane orientation. Furthermore, arrow weight needs to be the same.
I guarantee your Ravin arrows are neither spine matched nor spine indexed or weight matched and this is probably why your chrono. is not revealing more consistent arrow speed.
Of course, if your nock is sliding just a fraction on the string, this must be addressed first.
 

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Thanks Gentlemen for your replies. I will be looking at the serving and assessing how much play my nock has. That does seem like a likely reason for my windage issues. I assume that tying on any kind of knocking points would interfere with the way the carriage hooks onto the string reliably?

I noticed that nobody addressed the 5 fps variance in speed? Is this because it is normal? Really most shots are between 425fps and 427fps, with a couple spread further to 423 and 428fps.

I really dont think the arrows are to blame, there is nothing wrong with the Ravin arrows in my opinion. From my competetive archery experience, the Ravin arrows are built well with consistent weights and good quality vanes, and will go where you point them providing all else is on the mark. The practical difference in accuracy between an .001" arrow and an .003" arrow is so small, that 99% of people will not see the difference under normal shooting situations.
Ravin bolts....
If you check for straightness and weed out the bummers ( I have found more .003 labeled bolts that need weeding vs .001 tolerance labeled bolts.
Next.
I have not spine matched any Ravin bolts but have put stiffest part (spine indexed) of spine on the Ravin bolts in the same plane. And this will make them shoot better.
At 50 yards can I just pull a Ravin bolt out of a new box and expect it to be fairly accurate?
Nope.
I wouldn’t hunt with a new Ravin bolt that has not been spine indexed and checked for straightness.
Here is a video of mine showing Ravin bolts fired at 80 yards. These bolts were spine indexed (not spine matched) and reflectched so stiif spine would be in same plane.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks again guys, hopefully over the next few days I'll have time to address the likelyhood that my nock has some lateral movement. My comment above regarding the arrows was specifically directed at the .001" and .003" straightness, as thats a pet peeve of mine. I learned through testing (archery, and staff shooting for an arrow company) that there is no practical difference between a .001 and .003 arrow, its purely a marketing ploy to sell more expensive arrows under the guise of more accuracy, which isn't true. I've shot perfect archery rounds with .005" arrows and know many others that have also. Riflenut's video above bears witness to this also.

Now spine indexing and matching is another animal, and is something I will eventually do, but I do believe that the spine is not the culprit in my inconsistencies at 20yds and 40yds. Hopefully the sliding nock is the issue as thats a fairly easy fix.

Has anyone tried to tie on some small nocking points to the serving, or will this interfere with the latching mechanism?
I'll search for BigBirds nocking tool.
 

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Thanks again guys, hopefully over the next few days I'll have time to address the likelyhood that my nock has some lateral movement. My comment above regarding the arrows was specifically directed at the .001" and .003" straightness, as thats a pet peeve of mine. I learned through testing (archery, and staff shooting for an arrow company) that there is no practical difference between a .001 and .003 arrow, its purely a marketing ploy to sell more expensive arrows under the guise of more accuracy, which isn't true. I've shot perfect archery rounds with .005" arrows and know many others that have also. Riflenut's video above bears witness to this also.

Now spine indexing and matching is another animal, and is something I will eventually do, but I do believe that the spine is not the culprit in my inconsistencies at 20yds and 40yds. Hopefully the sliding nock is the issue as thats a fairly easy fix.

Has anyone tried to tie on some small nocking points to the serving, or will this interfere with the latching mechanism?
I'll search for BigBirds nocking tool.
Forget about tying anything on top of the serving to aid in nock point. When Ravin is cocked immense pressure is out on small section of string in places by the jaws.
Oem strings based on my experiences. Nocking point good for roughly 50 shots. After that accuracy will start suffering.
The serving on oem string will start separating and allowing nock pint to shift when bolt is being launched.
A set of archery shack 20 strand cables and their string along with big bird tool. This is the way to proceed.
Also knowing how to remove serving without cutting strands on string and reserving with appropriate serving materials and using bird birds nock tool sure comes in handy. Especially for some one who wants to shoot some Ravin Xbows loads and get the accuracy they definitely can provide. A Ravin press is a necessity imo for anyone who wants to get the least bit serious with Ravin crossbow be it target shooting or hunting game.

Bolt straightness is important. Especially as distance shot grows. I tend not to use any bolt period that’s is .004” out.
I’ll use bolts that are .001-.003” for straightness. Have seen some of the .003” bolts that had .006/.007” deviation for straightness. Have seen some .001 bolts that had a string much as .005” deviation for straightness. Usually find more crummy .003 bolts vs .001 labels bolts to be crummy.
A straight bolt won’t help a Ravin much that has a meandering nock point.

Ravin crossbows owners with a good solid nock point, tuned bow and good bolts along with good shooting form. At 100 yards on windless day expect 3 bolt 2” or closer groups. Groups of 1” even less are very possible.
With proper bow setup and tuned and good bolts. Getting through the Ravin trigger is the KEY.
And when you get good with a crossbow one can do good with a firearm.
Here’s a video I did not too long ago. Showing.
 

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Shooting crossbows does 2 things for a shooter.
Learns person how to properly trigger a weapon and here’s the BIGGIE, it forces one to KEEP their head down on firing weapon. Show me a marksman with a crossbow, this marksman will indeed be an even better marksman with a firearm. Moral of the story. Beware of those crossbow sharpshooters when they break out their guns. You may be embarrassed if you are a gun only kinda person.

 

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Riflenut,
I appreciate your continued support for my nock centering tool and thanks to your support, I've made a bunch of them for Ravin owners. The tool consists of 2 parts which are both 3D printed using carbon infused nylon and made to 1/10 mm tolerances. It definitely will help if you prefer to double serve the string center serving yourself. But you will need to oversize the inner serving so that the tool can create the necessary nock groove in the outer serving layer.

However, I seriously doubt I will ever be convinced that this method is better than installing nock ties between serving layers. Nock ties are not only longer lasting but just do a better job of preventing the Ravin nock from sliding.
As some of you know, I tried to get Archery Shack to preinstall the nock ties on every Ravin string they make but it simply didn't work out. To their defense, it is a very tedious and time consuming task.
Nevertheless, I still offer a service of reserving Ravin and/or Archery Shack strings with the nock ties for folks who are interested. I've been doing this for several years now and still have some devoted customers who, like me, prefer this method.
 

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BB1.....Your nock ties and the reserving you did on several of my strings has worked superbly. Have you ever taken a new Ravin string, removed the serving and implemented your process? What’s your recommendation as I have your last string on now with the double serving & nock ties with only two new Ravin strings as backup that I’d like you to rework?
 

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Hey NDPronghorn,
Yes indeed, in fact, I probably have reserved more new strings than used strings over the years. The only problem I've had in the past is when folks send me a new string that is labeled as a Ravin string but is actually a knock off.
I just ask that people stay away from eBay when they purchase a so called 'Ravin' string.
They are better off to purchase them from David Wilkins with Wyvern Creations. He has a great price and buys them directly from Ravin.

BTW, thanks for your kind words. I appreciate it very much.
 

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Bill, I’ll go through my stuff when I get to my lake place & send the strings to you. All my strings are only OEM directly from Ravin. Will be in you touch as I’m confined to my bedroom with bronchitis in both lungs & pneumonia in one for awhile. Thanks,
 
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