Crossbow Nation banner

141 - 160 of 176 Posts
Joined
·
86 Posts
Discussion Starter · #141 · (Edited)
Yep, if i owned a ten point i would use a firenock J nock with my choice of .300 id. arrow 400 grns + and be done with it.
The Firenock J Nock, non-lighted or lighted does seem to be a reputable well known player in the game.

Funny you should mention 400gr arrows. A fresh set of Spynal Taps recently appeared on my doorstep, all wearing Firenock non-lighted J Nocks, all weighing right around 400gr.

20210611_164336.jpg
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
478 Posts
Or at least try one that fits what you have. What's the harm your gonna blow it up shortly anyway with the factory nonsense?
Here's your sign:
Firenock crossbow full container nock spec as such

V for 0.300" ID with 0.115+/-0.05" OD string serving size with Short Prong
C for 0.300" ID with 0.125+/-0.05" OD string serving size with Short Prong
U for 0.300" ID with 0.135+/-0.05" OD string serving size with Short Prong
Q for 0.300" ID with 0.145+/-0.05" OD string serving size with Long Prong
J for 0.300" ID with 0.155+/-0.05" OD string serving size with Short Prong
D for 0.298" ID with 0.165+/-0.05" OD string serving size with Long Prong
D2 for 0.300" ID with 0.165+/-0.05" OD string serving size with Long Prong
D3 for 0.300" ID with 0.165+/-0.05" OD string serving size with short Prong
On most ten points the J nocks fit great, and your right about their factory 2 piece. They should at least offer ten point buyers a 1 piece nock.

Also, i believe the black eagle capture nock would work well too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,150 Posts
The Firenock J Nock, non-lighted or lighted does seem to be a reputable well known player in the game.

Funny you should mention 400gr arrows. A fresh set of Spynal Taps recently appeared on my doorstep, all wearing Firenock non-lighted J Nocks, all weighing right around 400gr.

View attachment 199802
Please make a post on your experiences with these new arrows because many folks are looking for solutions. Reason I started following is our saw guy at work has a new wicked ridge something and, he was complaining his alfo nocks where falling out and, breaking. So I suggested him checking his serving diameter and, trying some Firenocks.
 
Joined
·
86 Posts
Discussion Starter · #145 · (Edited)
I suspect there are plenty of SSA customers that use Spynal Tapps with Firenock J Nocks in their Tenpoint but will likely not advertise they do so, in order to preserve their 5 year limb warranty.

Actually, i never stated the Spynal Tapps i received with the Firenock J Nocks installed were for use in my Tenpoint Crossbow.

Hypothetically speaking, if i were to use them in my Tenpoint Nitro XRT, i would be more inclined to share my experience with an interested party via PM.

Perhaps there are some Tenpoint owners with crossbows no longer covered by warranty that will post up their experience with Firenock J Nocks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,150 Posts
Sure and, I'm wondering if the Tapps being made today are anything like the Tapps made just a short time ago too.lol
If your 10pt blows up I have some pics of some broken Alfo nocks you can use for warranty work. If it doesn't we can just assume everything worked flawlessly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
So Doe's bow has come in and is already headed out. The damage to the bow verifies my initial thoughts of the arrow not being seated back against the string, but rather up against or just slightly under the DFI. The bow was shot and the DFI caught the string, but the DFI hammered the nock from the top as it caught the string, thus breaking the wing of the nock off from the force. This was not a nock issue. Her bow is headed back to the dealer today or Monday and she will be back in action.
[/QUOTE
Did Ten Point cover this under warranty?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
Please make a post on your experiences with these new arrows because many folks are looking for solutions. Reason I started following is our saw guy at work has a new wicked ridge something and, he was complaining his alfo nocks where falling out and, breaking. So I suggested him checking his serving diameter and, trying some Firenocks.
I had the same issue. I measured my serving diameter. It's not him or the bow. It's the Nock/receiver. Superglue both the receiver and nock if you stick with Alpha Nock. What an awful design.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,150 Posts
So Doe's bow has come in and is already headed out. The damage to the bow verifies my initial thoughts of the arrow not being seated back against the string, but rather up against or just slightly under the DFI. The bow was shot and the DFI caught the string, but the DFI hammered the nock from the top as it caught the string, thus breaking the wing of the nock off from the force. This was not a nock issue. Her bow is headed back to the dealer today or Monday and she will be back in action.

So this is the rational from the 10pt national sales manager. Sorry we get along like oil and water and, it goes back about 8 years. And yes it actually started over nocks way back then and, nothings changed to date.lol
If their nock is indeed the best product for their xbows why try to rationalize the above comments. Makes ZERO sense to me. Sounds like they specifically designed a product(nock) that WILL migrate from the string with xbows that will blow the nocks up too. Reads like a total xbow recall is in order because it really is designed to do damage. ADF"s shouldn't break nocks. Nocks shouldn't migrate from the serving either. Jim Kempf learned that years ago. C'Mon man. One of the new 10pt normals. Reminds me of the normal my safety doesn't work days. That video was priceless.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
On a personal perspective my Siege, Viper and Blackhawk really likes them. I believe the issues you have shared regarding your Siege many times remains a mystery on root cause.

With brutal honesty I can share that the other night shooting long distance my dear wife asked if I would open the gate and let the sheep up to the barn. "You bet honey!" I walked over, opened the gate out came the sheep up to the barn. I walked over, got behind my optics, pressed the safety off and just guess what happened next, YEP, not so intelligent me didn't pay attention, got distracted, and forgot to load an arrow. I dry fired my Viper onto the DFI. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: I am not insinuating that anyone in this thread did this (besides me). However, as panful as it is to own my dumb action, I have to own what I did. OR just maybe post this on the forum. "Dear Randy, your piece of crap bow dryfired all by itself last night. I did everything right. I am really disappointed in this bow and TP should pay for me to send it back, fix it for free and return it next day air. I should have bought brand X. Very disappointed in TenPoint"

Everyone needs a mirror. After my DF:mad::mad::mad: I did "look in the mirror" and realized the honest thing to do was to OWN my own actions rather attempt to put it on someone else. Wasn't the cheapest thing to fix but regarding integrity, it was the right thing to do.

Have a wonderful day,
FD
You are correct. These things can and do happen However a bow can fail. Strings, limbs and nocks can break and they do. Other components also. When it's all said and done and you have a broken nock that slammed into a DFI or a broken string or limbs, it's just automatically the consumers fault. There is no way anyone can unequivocally say what happened. You have a broken mess. What a racket. There is a very high failure rate among crossbows, yet it always is just pushed back on the consumer. There are many pics on this website of failed nocks and yes, TP will send you a new set of arrows or more nocks if you submit them. But when the damage is any more extensive, it's always on the consumer. Isn't that something?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
So Doe's bow has come in and is already headed out. The damage to the bow verifies my initial thoughts of the arrow not being seated back against the string, but rather up against or just slightly under the DFI. The bow was shot and the DFI caught the string, but the DFI hammered the nock from the top as it caught the string, thus breaking the wing of the nock off from the force. This was not a nock issue. Her bow is headed back to the dealer today or Monday and she will be back in action.
It's pretty obvious that the nock was against the string, failed and then was forced into the DFI. It had to go somewhere right? There are too many people with failed nocks to prove it. What a racket.
 

·
Member
Joined
·
103 Posts
So Doe's bow has come in and is already headed out. The damage to the bow verifies my initial thoughts of the arrow not being seated back against the string, but rather up against or just slightly under the DFI. The bow was shot and the DFI caught the string, but the DFI hammered the nock from the top as it caught the string, thus breaking the wing of the nock off from the force. This was not a nock issue. Her bow is headed back to the dealer today or Monday and she will be back in action.
I've been hunting with crossbows since 1989. My dryfire count until last year was zero. Now, it's 3 in one year. I'm sorry, either I am totally inept at using TenPoint bows or something else is going on. Either way, happy trails.👋
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
I've been hunting with crossbows since 1989. My dryfire count until last year was zero. Now, it's 3 in one year. I'm sorry, either I am totally inept at using TenPoint bows or something else is going on. Either way, happy trails.👋
I've been hunting with crossbows since 1989. My dryfire count until last year was zero. Now, it's 3 in one year. I'm sorry, either I am totally inept at using TenPoint bows or something else is going on. Either way, happy trails.👋
Good luck with your next xbow. Might want to consider a Mission. I hear really good things. Wish I knew now what I didn't 5 months ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
809 Posts
If their nock is indeed the best product for their xbows why try to rationalize the above comments. Makes ZERO sense to me. Sounds like they specifically designed a product(nock) that WILL migrate from the string with xbows that will blow the nocks up too. Reads like a total xbow recall is in order because it really is designed to do damage. ADF"s shouldn't break nocks. Nocks shouldn't migrate from the serving either. Jim Kempf learned that years ago. C'Mon man. One of the new 10pt normals. Reminds me of the normal my safety doesn't work days. That video was priceless.
First off, I appreciate that they didnt charge her. Just as well could have because the shop here in town had no idea what happened or how to fix it. So they could have bent her over and had their way with her money but they didnt.
That counts for something in my book now-a-days.

With this said, you make good points and here is the big thing....
She has been at this for 30+ years in total. She has had numerous manufacturers and tons of bows over that time.
Not one time has she had an issue like this but with 10 point, 3 bows in a row in a years time have all had this happen time after time. The only common item is the nock and the manufacturer. 3 different models. All blew nocks and caused all kinds of trips to the shops/factory.

Since I know her and hunt/shoot with her, I just cannot accept that all of a sudden she has forgotten everything and turned into a moron.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
809 Posts
I've been hunting with crossbows since 1989. My dryfire count until last year was zero. Now, it's 3 in one year. I'm sorry, either I am totally inept at using TenPoint bows or something else is going on. Either way, happy trails.👋
LOL!

I literally just posted same observations. HA!

Its also been more than 3 dry fires. 3 bows dry fired at least a 1/2 dozen times between them all.
 

·
Member
Joined
·
103 Posts
Good luck with your next xbow. Might want to consider a Mission. I hear really good things. Wish I knew now what I didn't 5 months ago.
Thank you. I'm going back to, and sticking with, Excalibur. I have a Micro 335, Mag 340 and a big 'ol Vixen II. Speeds means nothing without reliability.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,705 Posts
My experience is no different than TX RDX’s. I hate to see anyone have issues but those things happen. I personally would like to see a one piece press in nock but someone at TP sees it another way. On a positive spin, converting to a lighted nock is easy peasy with any negative effects. I know from talking with dealers that the nocks don’t always put in the receiver properly and that causes issues.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,375 Posts
I may not know much about somethings in life but I do know polymer science and injection molding.
I have developed many products around the proper thermoplastic materials. Take from this what you will regarding nock application.
Some manufactures use very hard materials, mostly poly-carbonate (alias Lexan). Same material Bullet proof products can be made of. Various formulas of PC can range in D shore hardness. Most are rated at 90 D shore. Here is the issue with most nocks I have investigated. When the material of choice is to hard, and being hygroscopic, they can become brittle over time relative to moisture absorption. The "fit" is also difficult for the fact when you mold the parts it is imperative to maintain .0005" tolerance. Why? because if the size is to big you can split the carbon shaft, to small and the nock can turn causing other issues, possible DF. The material is so hard that it will not yield (swag) to conform to the inner shaft diameter, so, to big you risk shaft damage, to small risks the nock to turn. So, to avoid this one could opt to glue the nock in.

The goal is to provide a material that is tuff but also "soft" enough to yield when pressed into a shaft and not apply force that can possible split the shaft. You would want to OD of the nock "spines" to swag (smash) so that the fit is truly 1:1 without the risk of expending the shaft to the point of fracture. This allows a tighter fit and reduces the potential to split the shaft. The material developed was 75 D shore verses 90. This not only allows a more "perfect" 1:1 fit but also impact resistant. Look at it this way, when the string hits the nock with, say for example .005" gap, the hard material is like getting hit with a bare fist whereas the slight softer material absorbs the impact like getting hit with a boxing glove.

Beyond the material selection for fit and function, the total length of the nock must be considered for arrow performance.
Longer nocks can have concentric error more so than shorter body nocks. The additional stick out length and concentric error can be like a rudder on a boat and cause steering issues. It may be perceived as the arrow being a "flier" when in fact the nock is steering the arrow. Maintaining as little stick out as possible reduces the error and provides better POA to POI performance.

Lastly, glued in nocks can cause FOC related issues unless the adhesive used is applied via automation to insure consistent nock end weight, arrow to arrow. Else you run the risk of upsetting the FOC.

Again, take from this what you will. In hopes it provides a better understanding that the nock is sometimes overlooked as a critical part of the arrow.

Have a great Sunday,
FD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
I may not know much about somethings in life but I do know polymer science and injection molding.
I have developed many products around the proper thermoplastic materials. Take from this what you will regarding nock application.
Some manufactures use very hard materials, mostly poly-carbonate (alias Lexan). Same material Bullet proof products can be made of. Various formulas of PC can range in D shore hardness. Most are rated at 90 D shore. Here is the issue with most nocks I have investigated. When the material of choice is to hard, and being hygroscopic, they can become brittle over time relative to moisture absorption. The "fit" is also difficult for the fact when you mold the parts it is imperative to maintain .0005" tolerance. Why? because if the size is to big you can split the carbon shaft, to small and the nock can turn causing other issues, possible DF. The material is so hard that it will not yield (swag) to conform to the inner shaft diameter, so, to big you risk shaft damage, to small risks the nock to turn. So, to avoid this one could opt to glue the nock in.

The goal is to provide a material that is tuff but also "soft" enough to yield when pressed into a shaft and not apply force that can possible split the shaft. You would want to OD of the nock "spines" to swag (smash) so that the fit is truly 1:1 without the risk of expending the shaft to the point of fracture. This allows a tighter fit and reduces the potential to split the shaft. The material developed was 75 D shore verses 90. This not only allows a more "perfect" 1:1 fit but also impact resistant. Look at it this way, when the string hits the nock with, say for example .005" gap, the hard material is like getting hit with a bare fist whereas the slight softer material absorbs the impact like getting hit with a boxing glove.

Beyond the material selection for fit and function, the total length of the nock must be considered for arrow performance.
Longer nocks can have concentric error more so than shorter body nocks. The additional stick out length and concentric error can be like a rudder on a boat and cause steering issues. It may be perceived as the arrow being a "flier" when in fact the nock is steering the arrow. Maintaining as little stick out as possible reduces the error and provides better POA to POI performance.

Lastly, glued in nocks can cause FOC related issues unless the adhesive used is applied via automation to insure consistent nock end weight, arrow to arrow. Else you run the risk of upsetting the FOC.

Again, take from this what you will. In hopes it provides a better understanding that the nock is sometimes overlooked as a critical part of the arrow.

Have a great Sunday,
FD
Is your .0005" tolerance total tolerance? I know a little bit about interference fit and with something hard and thick-walled .0005" total tolerance will work in most applications. Plastics and carbon shafts generally are a little softer and more pliable, giving you a little more to play with. Not that carbon is all that soft, but thin-walled. It can give a little. You would have to use an awful lot of glue to change FOC. You could put too much glue on one side and cause an imbalance that would result in poor arrow flight. It is important to spread the glue evenly around the nock. I've been gluing my own nocks and the total variation from one arrow to another is less than a grain according to my scale. I do try to be careful try to apply the same amount but you would have to get pretty sloppy with the glue to affect FOC. I agree with the concentricity issues, a longer nock would require tighter concentricity and straightness tolerances. Just better off with a shorter nock as you said. Keeps the runout to a minimum. A shorter nock will also be stronger, stiffer and less prone to failure.
 
141 - 160 of 176 Posts
Top