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WOW! I'm could be meeting people driving automobiles at >60 mph that have problems understanding how to correctly place an arrow on a crossbow....:eek:
 
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Evidently … Firenock has the patent for snap on nocks so everyone else can at best offer "capture" nocks which are similar but will not grab the string and hold the arrow from moving away from that string. My fear has always been that an arrow with a flat, moon, alpha, capture or Omni nock would inadvertently be moved off the string and cause a dry fire. Before I switched to Firenocks I was paranoid about it and constantly checking my arrow position. I've had high grass grab a broadhead and pull arrows off the rails. With Firenocks I've had tug of wars with grass grabbing a Ramcat and the arrow STILL held onto the string. Now THAT's Pease Of Mind!...lol
I had one dry fire in my early days of crossbow hunting. I didn't know what caused the string to break but after learning more about it, I realize it was user error. It was a Horton Vision 175 with a metal arrow retainer. All of the bows I have purchased in the last 4 years has had brush retainers. They do a better job but nothing is foolproof. They will wear down eventually.
 

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Dave is correct about the strings don't just break by themselves. I work with these materials everyday and the stuff is strong. It will bend my 3/4" hook bolts. I don't ever see a string just breaking without something causing it to break. No argument there !

Edit: My head was in the clouds this morning but, I meant 1/4" hook bolts not 3/4"......lol...
 

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The gentleman in the video is not stating that the arrow will be rotated into the correct position if misloaded.
Simply that the Alpha Nock will help prevent a semi or total dry-fire situation.

If the arrow is loaded upside down, there will be no vane in the barrel's rail.
The cock vane will be straight up and the other two vanes will be at 120 degrees from the cock vane.
I took it as he is getting tired of working on crossbows and dealing with the complaints and warranties.
 

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For the amount of compassion, work, effort and forthright honesty he puts into each customer, I am surprised that anyone would lie to David.
Factory strings and cables are over built and there's no question about that for 99.9% of the bows. To have one break is preposterous and David is right in how he presents this in his video. This kinda reminds me of a few of characters that told me that a Flemish string unraveled. When asked if they untwisted the string, a couple said no and I said have a nice day, goodbye. The others said yes and I made them a new string. What happened to honesty? In the grand scheme of things, it is really easy to poorly index an arrow. I've done it more than once and learned to use capture nocks that give me a click. I might be smart dumb enough to blow up a bow but I'm smart enough to take precautions.
 

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Struck me … as a valuable educational video and a community service. Smart people learn by listening to other's mistakes. I was communicating with Dave not too long ago and the subject of strings came up and he mentioned that over-cocking is a significant cause of serving separations. Makes sense to me. That's something that never entered my mind. Now, I'm even more conscious of that "click" that tells you you're string is loaded. Before, didn't pay that much attention. "Listen & Learn."
184362
 

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Well said, Boo and Duke(y)

I sold a crossbow that was flawless to a friend that was new to crossbows. He blew the bow up (compound) in short order. I found out later that he was uncocking the bow by shooting a field point into the ground.:rolleyes: Evidently the arrow hit a rock in the ground, damaging it. The next shot, the arrow blew up, resulting in a dry fire, snapping the string. Then, a year later, he called and said it blew up again. He had loaned the crossbow to a friend. He brought it to me with the arrow that was loaded in the crossbow when it blew up this time by his friend. The first thing I noticed was that one vane was ripped off by the string. His friend loaded the arrow with the moon nock rotated wrong, causing the string to jump over the arrow shaft, ripping the vane off and dry fire...........again😣. I replaced the string for the second time and told him that was it for me. No more!! If he blows it up again, don’t call me.
 

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This thread reminds me of one of Mark Twain's smart ass expressions.
"Do not tell fish stories where the people know you; but particularly, don't tell them where they know the fish."
 

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Evidently … Firenock has the patent for snap on nocks so everyone else can at best offer "capture" nocks which are similar but will not grab the string and hold the arrow from moving away from that string.
My Ravin nocks are snap on nocks. No difference in them and Firenocks as to the way they snap on. Maybe they licensed it from Dorge.
 

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I bought a new TP Vapor from David. Green Alpha nocks with LED lights. Sighting it in and boom, it blew up. I took photos of everything and sent them immediately to David and TP. 100% operator error. When I last took out the bow and turned off one of the LED lights, I did not correctly index the nock (raised bump) with the cock vane. I blew up a brand new bow and David immediately looked at my photos and told me what happened. TP repaired that bow, I paid for my error, not TP. Yes I can drive a car and not correctly index an Alpha nock! I am willing to tell all that David is right. 10 seconds of prep and inspection will prevent almost all of these problems. I now triple check the index and alignment of the nocks. I have had no problems with my Vapor since the repairs were made. All nocks are indexed immediately after I am done shooting. I check again before the next shooting session. Easy peezy!
 

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I bought a new TP Vapor from David. Green Alpha nocks with LED lights. Sighting it in and boom, it blew up. I took photos of everything and sent them immediately to David and TP. 100% operator error. When I last took out the bow and turned off one of the LED lights, I did not correctly index the nock (raised bump) with the cock vane. I blew up a brand new bow and David immediately looked at my photos and told me what happened. TP repaired that bow, I paid for my error, not TP. Yes I can drive a car and not correctly index an Alpha nock! I am willing to tell all that David is right. 10 seconds of prep and inspection will prevent almost all of these problems. I now triple check the index and alignment of the nocks. I have had no problems with my Vapor since the repairs were made. All nocks are indexed immediately after I am done shooting. I check again before the next shooting session. Easy peezy!
I had a semi dry fire on a crossbow back in 2010 with no damage done and I have doubled checked ever arrow I have loaded since. That is literally thousands of arrows and I check every one every time (except 1).
I did have one other mishap when I got sidetracked and tried to pull the trigger on my Scorpyd DS and almost had a heart attack. Luck for me it will not fire at all without an arrow loaded. :rolleyes: o_O
 

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I took it as he's tired of working on crossbows and dealing with complaints and warranties on issues that can be avoided by doing some user education. (y)
Makes sense … I know he's up to his arse in alligators busy right now, so saving some of that time would be better used. He and/or the manufacturer may make some money on blown up bows in the short run, but long term it leaves a bad taste in the customer's mouth so in the big picture prevention is a win/win for all parties concerned; manufacturer, dealer and of course the customer. "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." ;)
 

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I'm sure there was a lot more reasoning behind his video. He sells a boat load of crossbows. I won't say any more on the subject but I do know all the dealers I have delt with automatically blamed the end user. I listen to conversations when I used to buy from local dealers and I've got ears full of complaints from the dealers about the customers. They are in it to sell. Bigger profits come from sales not fixing the broken.
 

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The only string I broke was a cracked shaft where the nock sits. Shooting at the same spot and must have hit arrows
 

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I'm sure there was a lot more reasoning behind his video. He sells a boat load of crossbows. I won't say any more on the subject but I do know all the dealers I have delt with automatically blamed the end user. I listen to conversations when I used to buy from local dealers and I've got ears full of complaints from the dealers about the customers. They are in it to sell. Bigger profits come from sales not fixing the broken.
Manufactures expect dealers to repair products free
 

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Manufactures expect dealers to repair products free
I'm sure they do but knowing that it's still up to the dealer to get the problem taken care of one way or another. It's his reputation that's on the line along with the manufacturer.

It's very important for the dealers to treat their customers with respect to keep the loyalty.

In the video it's obvious Dave is in disgust. That leads to worse not better. I hope he shakes it off and has better days ahead of him. He is a good reliable dealer and helps a lot of customers out that are in a bind. He gets things done in short order too. I'm sure the tutorial helped some crossbow users out but probably made some sour.
 

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I'm sure they do but knowing that it's still up to the dealer to get the problem taken care of one way or another. It's his reputation that's on the line along with the manufacturer.

It's very important for the dealers to treat their customers with respect to keep the loyalty.

In the video it's obvious Dave is in disgust. That leads to worse not better. I hope he shakes it off and has better days ahead of him. He is a good reliable dealer and helps a lot of customers out that are in a bind. He gets things done in short order too. I'm sure the tutorial helped some crossbow users out but probably made some sour.

I wasn't defending the video just giving info.. I think the video was a mistake.

Had I made that video when I was promoting south shore I would have been crucified on this forum.

Personally I think lever action hit the nail on the head with this post

You can tell customers to not do something dumb without telling them they are stupid
 

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Discussion Starter #39
I know nothing of this nock Duke, so dont read this as I know this or that. Questioning...
#1: Snap nocks have been around since the 80's. How does firenock hold a patent on a snap nock?
#2: Non all other bows, the tight fitting nock effects (negatively) the arrow. This was always an issue with snap nocks in the past. How is the nock designed, where this is not an issue with this snap nock?


Evidently … Firenock has the patent for snap on nocks so everyone else can at best offer "capture" nocks which are similar but will not grab the string and hold the arrow from moving away from that string. My fear has always been that an arrow with a flat, moon, alpha, capture or Omni nock would inadvertently be moved off the string and cause a dry fire. Before I switched to Firenocks I was paranoid about it and constantly checking my arrow position. I've had high grass grab a broadhead and pull arrows off the rails. With Firenocks I've had tug of wars with grass grabbing a Ramcat and the arrow STILL held onto the string. Now THAT's Pease Of Mind!...lol
 

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Discussion Starter #40
IMO...
He would have done better to video a cut string and show evidence to the potential customer.
With such an education (and visual) the customer who did load an arrow nock sideways would know what the damage looked like and would also know that (with such evidence) replacement would not be covered.
There was none of that.

What there was, was a hard line statement that strings dont break and if they do, it's not covered because it cant happen....
Which is ridiculous.


I'm sure they do but knowing that it's still up to the dealer to get the problem taken care of one way or another. It's his reputation that's on the line along with the manufacturer.

It's very important for the dealers to treat their customers with respect to keep the loyalty.

In the video it's obvious Dave is in disgust. That leads to worse not better. I hope he shakes it off and has better days ahead of him. He is a good reliable dealer and helps a lot of customers out that are in a bind. He gets things done in short order too. I'm sure the tutorial helped some crossbow users out but probably made some sour.
 
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