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Looking through any optics, in the store, under florescent lights, at the deer head on the wall across the store is a waste of time. Only outside, in low light and shadows will you see the real difference. This and looking 500+ yards out and trying to make out detail in objects under mirage conditions. Finally you can't put a price on hours of glassing and not having a head ache that you get from cheap glass. Testing the center and edge clarity and sharpness at the min/max zoom ranges will also show the obvious differences.

$2750 scopes are much better that $275 scopes. The question is do you need it? Can you afford it? If you can't, what is the best alternatives for your budget. The last sentence is hard to qualify if I don't know what causes optic a to cost more than optic b. There are great values to be had out there if you know what to look for.

-jm2c

Hunting at 40 yards in daylight or early morning doesn't require $2750 range finder binoculars or a $1750 dollar ranging crossbow scope. But it does make in nice.

Buy the best you can afford and enjoy. I've shot many animals, with hand me down scopes, when I couldn't afford anything different. They held zero and I did my part.
 

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Boils down ... to a person's buying philosophy. Quality, performance and value. Quality and performance are finite and measurable. Value is all up to the buyer. Some are misers and value low cost, some are drunken sailors who value highest performance regardless of price, and most are somewhere in-between. :)
 

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Boils down ... to a person's buying philosophy. Quality, performance and value. Quality and performance are finite and measurable. Value is all up to the buyer. Some are misers and value low cost, some are drunken sailors who value highest performance regardless of price, and most are somewhere in-between. :)
I guess. I became a glass snob, once I could afford it and actually hunted with better optics. Cost got thrown out the window once I saw what I was missing so to speak.
 

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Ever since lasik surgery a pair of binocs will do me no good. One eye sees distance and the other sees up close. They dont make binocs to adjust that way.:(
I have an 8x50 set of Steiners That I found in a pawn shop for $50. They have a full range focus adjustment on each ocular. Not the normal diopter adjustment, but an for real full range from 30 feet to infinity focus adjustment! If you would like as much specifics as I can get you on them, PM me and I will get everything I can for you.
 

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Not sure if this was mentioned earlier as I didnt read all the posts. One critcal feature a scope must have is coated lenses. Some very fine crossbows are packaged with good scopes that are not coated. In an early morning or late evening hunting situation, a scope without coating on the lenses will make a shot in the direction of the rising/setting sun impossible. You may never have a shot in these conditions but why take that chance?
Well, first off, there is no such thing as a "good" scope that does not have coated lenses! If the lenses are not coated, and many are not, it's a blister-pack scope that might be masquerading as it's betters.

Secondly, flare is far from the only problem common to cheap scopes. Common glare produced by the sun reflecting off a lot of differently slightly differently angled surfaces (like dense brush for instance) can and does frequently mask what is underneath that brush, and even the brush itself. If simple cheap 4 dollar sunglasses can block that light coming at a lot of different angles and only let a small window of angles through, There is no excuse whatsoever for a rifle scope to not be at least that capable, even if it's a cheap blister pack scope! Looking through a Zeiss or S&B scope, or their equivalent, for enough time to see what they really are capable of with a good set of coatings that still passes a lot of light is is a revelation.
 

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Boils down ... to a person's buying philosophy. Quality, performance and value. Quality and performance are finite and measurable. Value is all up to the buyer. Some are misers and value low cost, some are drunken sailors who value highest performance regardless of price, and most are somewhere in-between. :)
I don't think it's so much that, as just simple, ordinary everyday ignorance. I don't use that term as a pejorative, but rather in the most basic sense. They simply have never spent the time looking through those top shelf optics to have any glimmer of perception that there is so much better optics available.
 

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I don't think it's so much that, as just simple, ordinary everyday ignorance. I don't use that term as a pejorative, but rather in the most basic sense. They simply have never spent the time looking through those top shelf optics to have any glimmer of perception that there is so much better optics available.
"Ignorance is bliss."...lol
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We make our choices, try to convince ourselves they are the right choices, even though in real use they may be questionable.
For my deer hunting with an arrow, I’ve always (60 years of bowhunting) leaned on the simple and dependable side of the equation. Has yet to let me down👍🏻.
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Ever since lasik surgery a pair of binocs will do me no good. One eye sees distance and the other sees up close. They dont make binocs to adjust that way.:(
Just hold your bino vertically! LOL
 
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I've mentioned before on this forum that I am shooting a lot of deer out of my neighbor's barn. 4 garage bays below, and a full upstairs with crank out windows. The barn sits with the windows facing east and west which leaves me facing into the rising and setting sun, morning and evening and from mid -September until mid-November the angle of the barn makes for pretty rough conditions when Bambi wants to come through.

Part of what I do for the neighbors in return, is varmint control which means a lot of red squirrels and chipmunks need to be shot. I do that with CCI Quiets which are not all that accurate. The 75 Winchester I use for most of that is pretty decent with them considering. I put a Sig-Sauer scope on it which is very comparable to a Vortex. OK scope for most stuff, not by any stretch of the imagination a good low light scope, but it is pretty precise for adjustment, holds zero very well even when getting banged around. It handles some low light well enough that it would be a usable deer hunting scope on a crossbow, but when I have such difficult low light underneath a double canopy, and know what really good glass can do that it cannot there is no chance I'll use it for deer. I could spray a Paper towel tube flat black and with a little tape make it into a scope that handles flare much better, but the internal lenses and the coatings on them just do not have the coatings to make it into a Zeiss Conquest which was a very price competitive scope.

I really wish I'd had enough smarts to buy enough of those Conquests and Meoptas when they could be had for ~$300.00 to last me until I can no longer hunt. Same with the Nikon Monarch Gold scopes. On occasion one of the above will show up for little money on the used market, so it is worth keeing an eye out for them.
 

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Ever since lasik surgery a pair of binocs will do me no good. One eye sees distance and the other sees up close. They dont make binocs to adjust that way.:(
When I had cataract surgery, I was given a choice of a near lens, a far lens, or combo near/far lens. They said the only people that pick the near lens are people that only do close work all the time. Most pick the far lens. The combo lens was double the cost of the near or far lens. My referring eye doctor cautioned me the combo lens would not work as well as a near or far only lens, it would be a compromise. I picked the far lens.
They told me they use to let people get a near lens in one eye and a far lens in the other eye. They said they stopped that because some people had constant headaches. They pushed for me to buy the combo lens.
 

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I've mentioned before on this forum that I am shooting a lot of deer out of my neighbor's barn. 4 garage bays below, and a full upstairs with crank out windows. The barn sits with the windows facing east and west which leaves me facing into the rising and setting sun, morning and evening and from mid -September until mid-November the angle of the barn makes for pretty rough conditions when Bambi wants to come through.

Part of what I do for the neighbors in return, is varmint control which means a lot of red squirrels and chipmunks need to be shot. I do that with CCI Quiets which are not all that accurate. The 75 Winchester I use for most of that is pretty decent with them considering. I put a Sig-Sauer scope on it which is very comparable to a Vortex. OK scope for most stuff, not by any stretch of the imagination a good low light scope, but it is pretty precise for adjustment, holds zero very well even when getting banged around. It handles some low light well enough that it would be a usable deer hunting scope on a crossbow, but when I have such difficult low light underneath a double canopy, and know what really good glass can do that it cannot there is no chance I'll use it for deer. I could spray a Paper towel tube flat black and with a little tape make it into a scope that handles flare much better, but the internal lenses and the coatings on them just do not have the coatings to make it into a Zeiss Conquest which was a very price competitive scope.

I really wish I'd had enough smarts to buy enough of those Conquests and Meoptas when they could be had for ~$300.00 to last me until I can no longer hunt. Same with the Nikon Monarch Gold scopes. On occasion one of the above will show up for little money on the used market, so it is worth keeing an eye out for them.
My benchrest ... wildlife biologist shooting buddy likes those old Nikon Monarch scopes. Does the same thing, looks for them used. At least that's what he did a few years ago. Evidently the old Nikons were pretty good.
 

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My benchrest ... wildlife biologist shooting buddy likes those old Nikon Monarch scopes. Does the same thing, looks for them used. At least that's what he did a few years ago. Evidently the old Nikons were pretty good.
My benchrest ... wildlife biologist shooting buddy likes those old Nikon Monarch scopes. Does the same thing, looks for them used. At least that's what he did a few years ago. Evidently the old Nikons were pretty good.
The Monarch Gold were excellent scopes for the money. I am more than a little fond of them. The 2-10x50 and the 1.5-6x42 are excellent scopes for deer hunting. Great low light performance, the duplex reticle is bold enough for night work, they are rugged. If I could find another 2-10x50 it would go on my 75. People considering this should know that Nikon got out of making scopes and there is no repair or warranty that I know of.
 

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Well guys, let me tell ya. I'm 65 years old. My enjoyment of hunting now is to just kill a few each year knowing I didnt enbarrass myself by killing something too little to put in my pickup. And....to be able to hunt with family and enjoy what we as a family put into our freezers. Sure...like anybody else everybody wants to kill a big un but that aint my priority anymore,. It's just to enjoy what God has given us and enjoy time spent in the woods enjoying all of God's creations. Nothing satisfies me more than the comaraderie with my family hunting together even if we're at doifferent places on the same day. I really do miss the camps of yesteryear where 6, 8, or 10 guys camped and had the meatpole and all the good cooking and lies told around the campfires. I assume it's a thing of the past for me nowadays. Not quite the same hunting from home but it is what it is.

All the expensive bows, scopes, binocs, etc. isnt really on my mind anymore. I know I can rely on my woodsmanship and get my freezer full since me and the Mrs only needs a few each year anymore. I love sitting the stands and most times I talk myself out of shooting deer that presents the good shots.

Anyways, just some rambling. I hope you guys get out of this season what youre after. It's 5 more weeks for me and it's GAME ON!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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My benchrest ... wildlife biologist shooting buddy likes those old Nikon Monarch scopes. Does the same thing, looks for them used. At least that's what he did a few years ago. Evidently the old Nikons were pretty good.
My Nikon Bolt XR works fine for me. I can see deer and take shots that my eyes cannot see without it after a certain time in the evenings.;) I'm sure there's better scopes but this one gets me thru all legal hunting hours without having to take shots that I'm not sure of.;):)
 

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When I had cataract surgery, I was given a choice of a near lens, a far lens, or combo near/far lens. They said the only people that pick the near lens are people that only do close work all the time. Most pick the far lens. The combo lens was double the cost of the near or far lens. My referring eye doctor cautioned me the combo lens would not work as well as a near or far only lens, it would be a compromise. I picked the far lens.
They told me they use to let people get a near lens in one eye and a far lens in the other eye. They said they stopped that because some people had constant headaches. They pushed for me to buy the combo lens.
You made the right decision. Progressive lenses that allow you to see near, far and all between, are the way to go. They may take a bit to get accustomed to but are miles ahead of switching glasses multiple times daily.
 
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