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Discussion Starter #1
It's a bit disheartening when you spend 350-800.00 or more for an xbow to find the scope supplied is rated for 330 fps and the bow you just bought is 400 fps. Sorta like buying a truck that needs 16" tires and comes with 14".

With the evolution of optics it's about time WE, the consumer, expect from the manufactures to supply a scope that is rated for the bow sold. Or better yet, provide a variable speed scope on all bows so the consumer can dial in the scope to match the bow fps. This would put the responsibility on the bow manufacture to pre-qualify the quality and performance of the scope.

It would be hard to convince me that,for example, a 200.00 retail VS scope couldn't be bought for 100.00 or less when bought in volume by the bow manufacture. Someone may say it adds cost to the bow. Well, it most likely would. I would rather pay upfront and have a scope the bow manufacture qualified as a performer that works with the bow then now have to spend an additional 200.00 or more for a scope after the fact. We pay one way or the other.......

It's time manufactures either drop the cost of bows and sell without cheap optics or offer a high quality VS scope.

What say you?
FD
 

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I wish more bow companies would start selling bare bows with a rope cocker or crank and maybe a spare string.

Don't charge me for a crappy scope and arrows I don't want and end up selling for peanuts after I buy the bow.

Let me buy my own scope and arrows!!

Just like most good rifles don't come with a scope or Ammo! :)
 

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I agree, but most who have been on forums for a while have had this discussion several times. Not only would it be better for all package bows to have variable scopes, it would also be nice if they had reticles that came close to matching actual 10 yard increments. Apparently, companies have little incentive to sell bare bows vs packages with virtually disposable scopes and “bolts.”
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Great points! I don't know of one person that doesn't end up changing the optics. Domestic manufactures have a bit more flexibility in doing this. Pre-packaged bows from across the pond are just that, prepackaged.
 

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Again … you guys are the top 1%-2% of crossbow users. You have very refined tastes and requirements in your equipment. The AVERAGE crossbow buyer wants the decisions made for him. He has no experience with quality optics and even in the rare instance where he has some knowledge, he doesn't see a need for his version of good optics for a 30-50 yard shot. His big money scope is likely a Leupold VX-Freedom. The crossbow sits in a corner of the basement until a week before hunting season. Trust me, I've talked to hundreds of archers and most of them couldn't even tell you how much their arrows weigh. Their archery world is extremely small compared to the people on this forum. Optics? Same thing. Inexpensive and generic. All they want is a crosshair they can see and a picture of reasonable clarity. 90% of them couldn't even tell if their optic had a wandering zero...lol
 

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Great points! I don't know of one person that doesn't end up changing the optics. Domestic manufactures have a bit more flexibility in doing this. Pre-packaged bows from across the pond are just that, prepackaged.
My Excalibur Vortex is still stock wearing the same scope that came with it. I have never had a lick of a problem out of it and have seen no reason to update it. All my other crossbows have had at least two different scopes on them.
 

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+1 on this subject! The scope on your XB is likely more important than the scope on your rifle, unless you are shooting 400 yards plus, shooting competition, etc. Most of my rifle shots will never exceed 200 yards where I hunt. Regardless, I have never seen the need to spend huge $ on a rifle scope, largely because manufacturers like Vortex appeared and made other well known manufacturers have to compete and offer models that were priced more in line with the new competition. Now for my first XB, I opted to spend $400 on a scope because I realize how important it is when slinging arrows at 50 yards as opposed to slinging bullets at 200 and less. Granted I went with what TenPoint offered, but it's still a highly rated XB scope regardless. That Exo X cost more than the Vortex on my 30-06 model 700 that kills most every deer I shoot at. Maybe being a vertical archer for so long taught me the importance of accurate sighting options and arrow flight, I don't know.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
My Excalibur Vortex is still stock wearing the same scope that came with it. I have never had a lick of a problem out of it and have seen no reason to update it. All my other crossbows have had at least two different scopes on them.
Well, now I do know one.
As far as "newbies" not knowing better. Thought that's what CBN is all about. Learning from the people that do have experience.
I'll concede that maybe not every bow has a VS scope but at minimum a fixed reticle should be rated for the advertised speed of the bow. If you change arrow weight then that's on the shooter.
OR, just don't provide a scope at all and reduce the price of the bow. Accepting a supplied scope that is not going to perform is like provided arrows that can't group.
Keep your scope and arrows I say, I'll take to cost savings upfront and buy what is available from those who do know.
 

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Just like the new Swat coming out....wish I could buy it 275$ cheaper and add my own scope and arrows...
Yea, makes sense to me that a pass through from Xbow OEM to Scope OEM could be worked out. The whole scope idea with xbows does't make sense when you see so many rifles companies sell guns that do not come with scopes. If you want a special package with the Xbow OEM why not make one so the buyer can choose to pay for it. To me the OEM wins with this approach. OEM's, stop putting $20 for cheap ass scopes when people demand more then that. Or offer options with archery companies that sell your package to offer promotion options like gun companies. Just need to think it through more. The buying public is a bit more knowledgable these days.
 

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...If you want a special package with the Xbow OEM why not make one so the buyer can choose to pay for it. To me the OEM wins with this approach. OEM's, stop putting $20 for cheap ass scopes when people demand more then that...
That's the way for me, my Dealer offers his bows (different brands) with special packages. He demands scopes and arrows depending on your needs. The first contact with him was a one hour call full of Informations and questions. After that I got my personal package, out of OEM.
The second bow I bought was a OEM package, not bad, but I want to test for a small Budget. Now I'm going to grow it up. It' s more expensive but it makes fun, it's a hobby.
I think, we need both options. Like IronDuke said, most of the xbow users do not beeing Interest in Specials, they want to make it easy. You an see it in the second hand Market. Most of the bows making fun for one week. Then the bow sleep for long time before getting sold.
 

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Again … you guys are the top 1%-2% of crossbow users. You have very refined tastes and requirements in your equipment. The AVERAGE crossbow buyer wants the decisions made for him. He has no experience with quality optics and even in the rare instance where he has some knowledge, he doesn't see a need for his version of good optics for a 30-50 yard shot. His big money scope is likely a Leupold VX-Freedom. The crossbow sits in a corner of the basement until a week before hunting season. Trust me, I've talked to hundreds of archers and most of them couldn't even tell you how much their arrows weigh. Their archery world is extremely small compared to the people on this forum. Optics? Same thing. Inexpensive and generic. All they want is a crosshair they can see and a picture of reasonable clarity. 90% of them couldn't even tell if their optic had a wandering zero...lol
How many states still regulate archery equipment to "No Magnification" ?
 

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The industry is not much different than buying used. If you buy used on forum and don't want scope and arrows I get a small break in price and seller has to sell the unwanted stuff. I have a pile of unwanted scopes and arrows. My 8 yr old daughter sticks a few in target and says who ever hits more arrows at 70 yards buys breakfast. She shoots first and I can't win. The next Saturday I finally won and she asked for an advance on her allowance and said Dad I need some more arrows. I will never take unwanted arrows again. I might throw out all the scopes before she comes up with another scheme
 
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