[Jake]

Please forgive my ignorance, but why is the length of pull for most crossbows so short?

It seems to me like, if a crossbow had a stock design similar to that of a rifle or shotgun, that accuracy could be greatly improved on...

Also, why do most scopes or sights have to sit so high? It's nearly impossible to get a good cheek weld, and especially on a crossbow like my new Killer Instinct which I really do like.

Is there an easy fix for the comb height or length of pull for a curved stock??

Am I the only one having these issues?

I always see guys, who that when they are shooting their crossbows, their cheek is no where close to touching the cheek piece because their scope is sitting so high (and cannot be lowered) and they have to scoot their head back to even be able to look through their scopes.

Maybe it's just me and my long arms and long neck!?!?

Does anyone else shoot a crossbow that is less than a perfect fit, meaning the length of pull is too short or the cheek piece sits too low??

Thank you for your time.

God Bless,

Jake

 

[bunnyrabbit]

Here is an answer to a few of your questions:
1)scope height: there are several different scope ring heights available for normal scopes.
These are available in low, medium, high and I believe extra high.
I have some Pinty scopes and found the same model branded as Bushnell and UUG that
have the mounting base molded to the rest of the scope. These scopes were purchased
on Amazon.ca and came with a Holographic sight and a laser sight which fasten to the scope
or can be used single. This laser is not adjustable for vertical or horizontal but there is a model
that is available, purchased as a single unit that is adjustable.

2)cheek weld or adjustment: some crossbows have a cheek weld section molded into the butt
stock which is not adjustable. Examples that I have are: Carbon Express 390 Pile Driver which
is no longer manufactured but may still be available from sellers. The re branded Rocky Mountain
405 and 415 series. A few of the newer crossbows have the cheek weld accessory that is adjustable
up and down by loosening some Allen screws, make the adjustment and then retighten them.

3)length of pull: a few of the newer crossbows have the adjustable butt stock. By squeezing a
lever, the stock will extend or collapse where an outer tube slides over the inner ridge one. This
system is nice for people with different physical builds and when switching to heavier or lighter
clothing. One may be able to purchase a thicker butt plate or custom build one. As an example,
I have modified some of my crossbows to accept the plug in crank cocking device. Building my
own butt plate, I could make it thicker if it was required.

4)as for moving scopes forward, if more distance is required, one can purchase longer picatinny
rails that one may be able to modify hole distance to fit by either removing the original or mounting
it on top of the original. Mounting on top of the original is similar to mounting an HHA Optimizer,
which will increase the height of the scope.

Wishing you all the best.
Take care.

 

[wheelsquad]

Many of us have 3D printed cheek rests to get proper cheek weld and eye alignment. You could do the same for you KI.

 

[JOE PA]

Some crossbow shooters don’t care much about fit. Others ( like me), want good, natural fit and aiming. A crossbow is always going to have a higher scope due to the need for the scope mount to be above the string. There are a few ways to get more comb height. Some members here 3D print adjustable combs to mount on stocks. God-a-Grip makes stick on, dense foam pieces to add height. On a tight budget? You can get self adhesive pipe insulation and put that on the stock. For the LOP, I‘d see if KI has something available. If not, cut a piece of wood to shape and attach it in some way.

 

[rt2bowhunter]

I want the scope to find my eye not my eye find the scope. This is what I’m playing with on one of my bows. Don’t look like much I’ll give you that. But man my eye locks in that scope with out any searching or modifying my nature hold. The bow has a adjustable stock it’s one hole from max plus the added recoil pad makes it perfect. The rubber but pad offers zero slip on my shoulder and the bow sounds quieter ( might be in my head). Repeatable percussion accuracy with dial to the yard adjustable power scope.

If they don’t make it. Then make it .

 

[Huntersthompson]

Adjustable AR style stock and adj cheek piece

 

[tryinhardarcher]

GodA ‘ Grip offers pads to adjust your cheek weld that work perfectly with the KI bows.

 

[Zebrafive]

My guess is the scope rail is so high due to needing room for the trigger latch on to the string from above, not below.
I never understood why makers, knowing how high the scope will be, have not done a better job designing stocks. So, users do not have to add to the comb.

 

[Jake]

I appreciate all the comments, suggestions and pictures that you guys have posted, Thank You!

When it comes to scope rings, regardless of the weapon, I always use the lowest rings possible...

My Killer Instinct crossbow does not have an adjustable length of pull or an adjustable comb, so I am probably going to have to do to some "engineering" to get things to fit me more properly...

Rt2bowhunter - I like what you said: If they don’t make it. Then make it .

Mine will probably look something like yours when I get finished with it, and like yours, if it's fully functional for me, I don't care if it doesn't win any beauty contests. I got this crossbow strictly to put meat in the freezer, with a range session at least once a week every week until deer season.

I sent Killer Instinct an email concerning a factory available stock extension, but I think that was a waste of time since they already make a crossbow with an AR-type of adjustable stock...

Another thing I noticed, is that the scope base is high on both ends and low by .040 in the middle. The front of the scope base was also cast thicker on the front end, which makes the front scope ring sit higher than the rear scope ring. I asked Killer Instinct if they would replace it, so it will be interesting to see what they say about it...

I know a lot of people, but none that I know have a 3D printer...

Thanks again for your help guys. I appreciate you taking the time to explain things and help me out along the way.

God Bless,

Jake

 

[Zebrafive]

Another thing I noticed, is that the scope base is high on both ends and low by .040 in the middle. The front of the scope base was also cast thicker on the front end, which makes the front scope ring sit higher than the rear scope ring. I asked Killer Instinct if they would replace it, so it will be interesting to see what they say about it...




Jake

Have you used a long straight edge and check if the mount is parallel to the rail?
I would mount just the bottom ring 1/2s and put a straight edge ring to ring. If the rings are not "inline" you could damage the scope when you tighten the rings to it. From what you describe, it sounds like the scope mount is bent/distorted.
There are ring alignment tools that have two metal dowels/round stock the diameter of the rings with pointed ends. You mount point to point in the rings and check the points match.

 

[Jake]

Have you used a long straight edge and check if the mount is parallel to the rail?
I would mount just the bottom ring 1/2s and put a straight edge ring to ring. If the rings are not "inline" you could damage the scope when you tighten the rings to it. From what you describe, it sounds like the scope mount is bent/distorted.
There are ring alignment tools that have two metal dowels/round stock the diameter of the rings with pointed ends. You mount point to point in the rings and check the points match.

Yes, I have used a straight edge to check to see if the mount is parallel to the rail.

The front ring sits .030 higher than what the rear ring does.

The front ring also leans back, and does not sit straight or square on the base.

A Burris Signature Zee ring will slide on the rear of the base rather loosely, while one will not even start to go on the front of the base, as the base is approximately is .062 thicker than the rearward section of the base...

Yes, it is apparent that the base is bent/distorted, and where that is on the base, it appears to have been "cast" that way and is defective from the factory.

I know about those ring alignment bars that you speak of, as I have used them for over 30 years in my business. The left/right is off by a couple of thousandths, but the up/down has the front scope ring sitting approximately .030 high and the ring is not sitting square on the scope base.

I just need a new base because this one has too many problems.

God Bless,

Jake

 

[No1Rackmaster]

Simply Put.....the trend toward faster, lighter and more compact has left a few manufactures for getting about how a bow feels when you shoulder it up.
Tenpoint still remembers yet has retained all the features mentioned on thier Vapor series bows.

 

[Jake]

No1Racknaster,

you are absolutely correct!

I totally understand making the front half of the crossbow more compact, but you still need to be able to correctly and comfortably shoulder the thing...

Just like my new Killer Instinct here, when I shoulder it, my glasses and the scope base collide, and as such, I now have to have one of my lenses replaced from all of the scratches I put on it!

Thanks to the guys who have posted here, I am going to build up a cheek piece and lengthen the stock to make shouldering my new Killer Instinct crossbow more comfortable, like what it should have been to begin with.

God Bless,

Jake

 

[Zebrafive]

Yes, I have used a straight edge to check to see if the mount is parallel to the rail.

The front ring sits .030 higher than what the rear ring does.

The front ring also leans back, and does not sit straight or square on the base.

A Burris Signature Zee ring will slide on the rear of the base rather loosely, while one will not even start to go on the front of the base, as the base is approximately is .062 thicker than the rearward section of the base...

Yes, it is apparent that the base is bent/distorted, and where that is on the base, it appears to have been "cast" that way and is defective from the factory.

I know about those ring alignment bars that you speak of, as I have used them for over 30 years in my business. The left/right is off by a couple of thousandths, but the up/down has the front scope ring sitting approximately .030 high and the ring is not sitting square on the scope base.

I just need a new base because this one has too many problems.

God Bless,

Jake

Is the base removable? Or built on so to speak?
Front .030" higher than the rear is not good either. Even if the rings lined up, scope would be pointing "uphill"
Would a one piece ring set work? Like a cantilever set?
I hope the manufacturer takes care of the problem, it sounds like a manufacturing defect.

 

[Zebrafive]

One thought I had regarding too short a length of pull (making the scope have to be mounted too far forward) is try a shorter eye relief scope, say 3" rather than 4". Since recoil should not be an issue (scope hitting brow) with a crossbow.
The scope(s) I would like to try are the Hawke AirMax series.

 

[philztoy]

Everything Jake says is true. Might be worse for taller guys. That being said I don’t have to worry about recoil and getting scope kissed with a crossbow. So I have just accepted the lack of fit and to a certain extent lack of decent trigger pulls.

One exception for me was the ravin 29x. For some reason the length of pull between the grip and the trigger was way too short for me to ignore. A trigger shoe and wrapping the grip helped with that one.

The scopes are really high. I have a long face so maybe I don’t notice that as much. It is kind of an AR height, so it doesn’t feel totally abnormal to me.

Short stocks don’t bother me much. I like shooting clays with a youth shotgun sometimes and am pretty accurate hold up on those short stocks. For cross bows, the shorter stocks are more maneuverable in a blind or a tree stand (with three layers of clothes).

If they did fit better they would shoot better. But they are already as accurate as I need at 40 yards or less for my hunting.

Thise KI’s. Look nice and compact. I want to try one!

 

[Jake]

Is the base removable? Or built on so to speak?
Front .030" higher than the rear is not good either. Even if the rings lined up, scope would be pointing "uphill"
Would a one piece ring set work? Like a cantilever set?
I hope the manufacturer takes care of the problem, it sounds like a manufacturing defect.

Yes, the base is removable.

The problem with adding anything on top of the scope base, is adding more height to an already high base set up.

I hope the manufacturer will take care of the problem as well.

God Bless,

Jake

 

[Jake]

One thought I had regarding too short a length of pull (making the scope have to be mounted too far forward) is try a shorter eye relief scope, say 3" rather than 4". Since recoil should not be an issue (scope hitting brow) with a crossbow.
The scope(s) I would like to try are the Hawke AirMax series.

A scope with a 3" eye relief would still be an issue. Like I've said before, I am over 6ft. tall, have long arms and a long neck, so I have a natural tendency to crawl the stock anyways.

The only thing I can do is to add an extension to the butt stock, which will put me further away from the scope, and make shouldering more comfortable.

I am hoping to get a Vortex scope, but will not mount it until I can get the scope base issue taken care of...

God Bless,

Jake

 

[bigbird1]

The short answer to your question is simple. There's much more profit in selling small crossbows because you can use less material to make them lighter and yet charge considerably more for their convenience and maneuverable in a blind.

I'm convinced some folks don't even know what a proper fitting weapon feels like. The first thing some of these same folks do after buying one of the mini-crossbows is to purchase a caldwell sled to hold the thing while shooting.
That should be a strong hint that it might
not fit you.

I personally could care less about manuverably but when I bring the thing up to shoot from my treestand, it needs to feel comfortable. I'd further state that for those who take pride in killing an animal quickly every time with a single arrow and minimal tracking, fit matters.

 

[rt2bowhunter]

Don't know about the Mission Sub's. But the MXB's for me. I needed a high ring to even see through the scope. So they did see this and address it maybe went to far. I keep the high rings when i went back to the optimizers just because i had them.

When i was using excaliburs i could get by with low rings and even modified a optimizer so i could set the scope lower. So another brand that's not too bad.

Also Optimizer makes one just for the Mission Sub1's that i think sets lower.