Ravin R29 weak link?

neglectedbow said:

just scooped up a Sig Sauer 2 x 8 package withe kilo 1600 range finder....the scope is slightly better then the The best hawke the xb30 pro but slightly less then the Leupold vxr 2 x 7

If you can get this combo package for under 540.00 its worth the money s far as optics go.

the range finder is about equal to my older leupold 1000 i as far as optics go.

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Although I like the simplicity of the Sig Sauer design, it's important to note that it's not a full auto ranging scope at this point in time.
My definition of a fully operational auto ranging scope is one where the rangefinder is actually mounted on the crossbow or scope and fully integrated at all times with the scope or scope holder (like a HHA). To my knowledge, only ATN has that functionality at this point in time.

As many of you, I've seen the time so often when hunting that I simply did not have the time or was afraid to fumble around with my handheld rangefinder to range the animal in fear of spooking the animal.
Hence, I don't see the need to buy this range finder/scope combination at this point in time when I already have several good scopes and several rangefinders.

However, after much investigation, I see where low cost and very small fixed mounted rangefinders are beginning to appear on the horizon. I also imagine that scope manufacturers will be biting at the bit to sell you an integrated solution in the near future. This will be good for the crossbow industry but difficult for the customer to choose which is best for them. I remain waiting on the sidelines until a fully integrated solution becomes available that eliminates the need to hold a rangefinder and is less complex and cheaper than the ATN solution.

I also might prefer a solution that allows one to use any scope of their preference rather that be in bed with a specific manufacturer. Hence, some standards for bluetooth configuration would be nice but probably not forthcoming. As a result, if I had a HHA speed dial or a Ravin jack plate that could accomplish the same goal, I might well prefer it because I would not have to reinvest in new scope hardware.

Just to elaborate a little from the above post, IMO the fixed mounted rangefinder shown below could be a more effective crossbow hunting tool than the Sig BDX in it's current configuration.
Here's why:
Say you're hunting on a field edge or in a location where you have multiple potential shots available to you at various ranges. Let's compare what's required with a Sig BDX vs. the LE-032 fixed mount rangefinder beside a XB30.
Let's say a good buck comes into view quickly but he's on edge and looking your way at what you guess might be 45 yards.

With the Sig BDX, you've got to slowly bring up the BDX rangefinder while you wait for the buck to look away. Of course, he might just decide to move on or you might actually get lucky and he looks away while still standing in place. Assuming you get the rangefinder up to your eye and back down without spooking him, you've ranged him and the correct LED lights up to give you an aiming point so now you can once again hope that you don't get busted as you bring the crossbow up to shooting position and place the lit LED on the buck's vitals.

With the LE-032/XB30 combination, you skip the first step above and slowly bring the crossbow up to shooting position hopefully as he's looking away. You push the corded button next to your trigger guard (or wherever you have it mounted) while looking thru the scope and placing the 20 yd. crosshair on the buck's vitals. Now you see the accurate distance to the buck in you left eye and move the correct reticle up to the deer.

Which method you prefer is personal choice but I'd take the second approach every time because it's less movement involved.

But what I would really want is to have a more compact Sig BDX rangefinder mounted on the crossbow that looks similar to the LE-032. It would even be better if it looked like the ATN rangefinder and had the display in the scope. Now I get to have my cake and eat it too so to speak.
Once, I have the scope up in my eye, I push a button and the rangefinder not only shows me the distance using my left eye (or my right eye in the case of the ATN version), but it also lights the correct LED and No Other so I'm good to squeeze the trigger once I place that dot on the animal's vitals.

Here is my take on this Sig suaer bdx set up.

If you already run a Ravin jack plate or an HHA optimizer this gives you the exact same thing only better in a few differnt ways.
Ist there no dial to adjust or not be able to see.
There no time used to make this adjustment as with the hha or jack plate.
The amount of avalabe light is not critical to make the dial adjustment.
The scope is also a multi aimpoint model if you choose to use that feature.
The scope is prob better then all mulit aim point scope 0r nearly equiv to Tenpoints evo x model.
You can leave the scope set to 30 yards zero and use range finder for longer shotS if needed to reset aimpoint on the fly.
(This is what i would likely do)

Is this worth the extra money......? is any crossbow worth 2500.00...?

Will i get the use from this that I expect to....? prob not.

In my case, I have a HHA only on my R9 which is strictly for target practice. Such a setup has serious limitations for some hunting scenarios. In this case, I have plenty of time to shoot and range the target.
What has Not been said about a Sig. BDX is the resolution limit of the LEDs. In other words, there is a limited number of these thing in the scope. It's like an old TV that had poor resolution. Your accuracy at long range will be limited to how many LEDs are in that vertical strip that mimics a crosshair. I don't have such limitation with a conventional scope and a HHA.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's fine for typical hunting shots but it's yet to be seen how the long range accuracy will be with a crossbow at say 100 yards when target shooting with a Sig. BDX. For instance, let's say there are 50 LEDs in a vertical line (which might in fact be optimistic). Then it doesn't take much thought to understand that a single LED might very well be lit for a 2 or even a 3 yard error.

bigbird1 said:

Just to elaborate a little from the above post, IMO the fixed mounted rangefinder shown below could be a more effective crossbow hunting tool than the Sig BDX in it's current configuration.
Here's why:
Say you're hunting on a field edge or in a location where you have multiple potential shots available to you at various ranges. Let's compare what's required with a Sig BDX vs. the LE-032 fixed mount rangefinder beside a XB30.
Let's say a good buck comes into view quickly but he's on edge and looking your way at what you guess might be 45 yards.

With the Sig BDX, you've got to slowly bring up the BDX rangefinder while you wait for the buck to look away. Of course, he might just decide to move on or you might actually get lucky and he looks away while still standing in place. Assuming you get the rangefinder up to your eye and back down without spooking him, you've ranged him and the correct LED lights up to give you an aiming point so now you can once again hope that you don't get busted as you bring the crossbow up to shooting position and place the lit LED on the buck's vitals.

With the LE-032/XB30 combination, you skip the first step above and slowly bring the crossbow up to shooting position hopefully as he's looking away. You push the corded button next to your trigger guard (or wherever you have it mounted) while looking thru the scope and placing the 20 yd. crosshair on the buck's vitals. Now you see the accurate distance to the buck in you left eye and move the correct reticle up to the deer.

Which method you prefer is personal choice but I'd take the second approach every time because it's less movement involved.

But what I would really want is to have a more compact Sig BDX rangefinder mounted on the crossbow that looks similar to the LE-032. It would even be better if it looked like the ATN rangefinder and had the display in the scope. Now I get to have my cake and eat it too so to speak.
Once, I have the scope up in my eye, I push a button and the rangefinder not only shows me the distance using my left eye (or my right eye in the case of the ATN version), but it also lights the correct LED and No Other so I'm good to squeeze the trigger once I place that dot on the animal's vitals.
View attachment 160470

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Just purchased the Laserworks LE-032 rangefinder for my Wicked Ridge RDX400. I have it top mounted on my scope. The LE-032 has a laser beam that allows you to adjust the rangefinder by walking in the laser dot to the center of your crosshairs on your scope when centered on a small target.. Haven't tried it beyond 60 yds. yet but it's right on the money at 60. No fumbling around for the rangefinder around your neck or in your pocket. Just place the actuator button on the side of your stock where you can just move a thumb or finger to turn it on. The obvious single drawback is the problem of transporting in a case, due to the height of the unit along with the scope. Easily cured with a quick detach scope mount. So far I'm impressed. For under $140, it's a good alternative to what's out there at present. I agree that one of the major companies will come up with a rangefinding scope that doesn't require a cell phone app to program it, calibrated specifically for the growing crossbow market..We'll just have to wait and see. For now I'm totally happy with this little gem.

Earl,
No offense but I'm afraid you're missing the point. Let me try to explain perhaps with a different approach.
If you use a shotgun with a slug barrel of a muzzle loader, think about how you use it when hunting. You certainly don't use a silly rangefinder because chances are if you're hunting in the East, the range to the animal will not be beyond the flat trajectory of the weapon (< 100yds.). You also won't be adjusting any scope turret or anything else. So you bring the gun up, flip the safety off, look thru the scope to center the crosshair on his chest and squeeze the trigger.
That's it - chances are the animal is in range of the flat trajectory of the slug so you just aim and shoot.

Well, if I think about from the viewpoint of a design engineer, there's actually no reason a crossbow has to be much different if you really apply today's technology.

You should be able to raise the crossbow up, flip the safety off (which could also power up the rangefinder attached to the scope), look thru the scope to center the crosshair on his chest, squeeze the first stage of the set trigger (which rotates the scope to the correct angle for the shot (audible feedback confirms this step is complete when the stepper motor stops), re-center the scope crosshairs to the animal's vitals and squeeze the trigger.

So basically, you have added one additional step that required no extra movement on the shooter's part and that is you must place the crosshairs on the animal twice. Once to supply the range to the sight electronics and a second time to shoot once the scope automatically tilts to the correct position. Several advantages of this approach include:

1. No special scope is required - just a cheap single reticle scope will work fine - hopefully one with low eye relief, 50 yard parallax, great glass and good magnification range.
2. Profit can go to the crossbow manufacturer as opposed to the rifle manufacturer who made the scope.
3. Don't need a smart phone app or bluetooth for it to work. (USB connection between rangefinder and Ravin jackplate electronics would suffice)
4. Can have a manual backup mode where the external scope dial can be rotated by hand like the Ravin jackplate is used now.

Hope this helps to clarify.

neglectedbow said:

the draw back I am seeing, so far to the Sig set up
is that you could easily forget what you last ranged and then make the shot.
Or for get to range all together and be totally off on the shot.
But as stated this is the same as using a Hha or jack plate when hunting but better.


Even with the scope mounted laser works, It seems it could be easy to mis range the item and then make a bad shot. Whos to say you were not picking up a tree 15 feet in front of the deer..
Unless you are looking though the range finder to know.

This is why ideally the range finder needs to be internal to the scope.

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Neglectedbow, no offense, but I'm not sure I understand your thought process concerning the Laserworks fixed mounted rangefinder.
It is intended to be used with a multi-reticle scope like a XB30. The first thing you do after mounting it to the scope, is to utilize the built-in red laser pointer to align the beam with the 20 yard crosshair. BTW, it can be mounted to the left or right side of the scope as well as the top.
So when you range the animal, you must look through the scope and place the 20 yard crosshair on the animal's vitals before pushing the button that comes attached via a cord to the rangefinder. So for all practical purposes, you ARE looking through the rangefinder. But just like using a handheld RF, you need to always confirm that you are not picking up a limb or something in front of the animal. The intent is to mount this very small RF close enough to the rear of the scope so you can read it with your left eye while still keeping your right eye in the scope. Hence, you will see that erroneous range appear on the LaserWorks RF and you can push the button once again. Once you get a reasonable range, you now figure out what reticle to aim on the animal just like you would with a handheld RF.

Of course, it would be better to have the RF built into the scope but I'd be willing to bet that some folks would complain about too much clutter with that approach as well.

Reading all these hi tech posts, I feel so inadequate with my little Zeiss red dot mounted on an HHA Optimizer. Not really:- ) I love my little simple system even though I have much respect for the new hi tech stuff. I’m beyond making too many changes at my age. With my Leica RF hanging around my neck, I’m fine