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Looks like xbow fever is in the air! Still watching the MI vote closely.
 

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Urban Legend said:
Rumor has it the Pennsylvania has a house bill in the works to legalize crossbows. I heard this today from a reliable source.
It's not a rumor it is a fact. "House Bill 2653 is now in the House Game and Fisheries Committee. Haluska said he hopes it will be sent to the floor before the summer recess and expects it to come up for a vote early in the fall, if not before the recess."
I am watching MI and PA very closely. MI could definitely happen but it will have loud resistance.

From the PA game commission website:
A hunter in possession of a permanent or temporary disabled person permit authorizing him or her to use a crossbow may use a crossbow in the archery season. This permit is intended for people with physical limitations that preclude them from using conventional archery equipment. There are nearly 30,000 people permitted in Pennsylvania to use a crossbow during archery season under this circumstance. No other hunter may use a crossbow in the archery seasons.

With 30,000 of them already in the woods this should go over with only pocket resistance. I think they are already widely accepted there but I expect a few of the fanatical bow groups will jump in when it becomes more public knowledge. So lets wait and see how it goes in the house.

You know what I find odd is I have never in my life been so politically active about a particular subject or idea. Concealed carry permits for a Ohio was a huge one for me and our state. But in this case it's not about me or my state. It's about me enjoying a freedom that I think they should be able to as well if they so desire. I have never even hunted with my crossbow. (yet)

There are stirrings in New Jersey and New York too. Many many states have been trying for years but the anti crossbow propaganda is still influencing the masses. As the current 8 states that have full inclusion submit reports the eyes are beginning to open. I wish I could resurrect Fred Bear and ask him one question. What are your views on the crossbow as being archery equipment. The Fred Bear company has made crossbows but after his death. I have heard of pictures and items in his museum prior to it's moving to Gainseville, FL that he had crossbows and photos of him holding crossbows. There is some information about a fire in 1952 that took a lot of the memorabilia. I wish I had the resources to contact his decedents. Fred and his friends are virtually the only reason an archery season exists for any states today. If someone could produce a photo of Fred hunting or taking game with a crossbow I think the hardcore vertical gang would have to shut the heck up. Their season would not be an ARCHERY season if it weren't for the efforts of Fred Bear. And as I understand it Fred viewed the crossbow as archery equipment. That would make a crossbow archery equipment too as defined by the god father of all archers.
 
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If someone could produce a photo of Fred hunting or taking game with a crossbow I think the hardcore vertical gang would have to shut the heck up.
Why is that?
You assume the hardcore vertical gang is against hunting with crossbows. One more way to paint us as selfish and arrogant.
None of us oppose hunting with crossbows. We only oppose your taking over of the entire archery season.
 

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MIbowhunter said:
Why is that?
You assume the hardcore vertical gang is against hunting with crossbows. One more way to paint us as selfish and arrogant.
None of us oppose hunting with crossbows. We only oppose your taking over of the entire archery season.
I keep hearing this in various states. When would you have the stand alone xbow season in Mi? Would the "other" bows still be legal to hunt w/?
 

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MIbowhunter said:
Why is that?
You assume the hardcore vertical gang is against hunting with crossbows. One more way to paint us as selfish and arrogant.
None of us oppose hunting with crossbows. We only oppose your taking over of the entire archery season.
The entire ARCHERY season belongs entirely to the ARCHERS. Crossbows are ARCHERY equipment. I should be able to use my ARCHERY equipment in ARCHERY season. In this case my equipment is a crossBOW. After all my bow fires an arrow identical to any long bow, re-curve bow or compound bow but is only 20 inches long.
SO crossbows can not take over ARCHERY season because thats the exact season they belong in. I think it's your and other bow hunters inability to share that is the real problem with crossbow inclusion.
 

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Will the crossbow hunter want to "share" "their" season with another primitive weapon. Would yuu be opposed to sharing "your" "bow" season with the muzzleloaders?

If not, why not? we should all stick together and welcome other hunters in the woods.
 

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Stinger171 said:
Will the crossbow hunter want to "share" "their" season with another primitive weapon. Would yuu be opposed to sharing "your" "bow" season with the muzzleloaders?

If not, why not? we should all stick together and welcome other hunters in the woods.
I know better than to feed the trolls but I just can't help myself on this one. The sound of muzzle loaders and gun fire disturb the daily routine of the deer and often force them to go into nocturnal mode. This would make archery season obsolete. You can't pattern a deer for proper stand placement and daily routines once they have been shot at for a week. Once the first few shots are fired in a specific area the deer either run in circles between shooters or bury themselves in cover so thick a beagle cant get to them. They shift into nocturnal mode by day 2. This activity in all but a scant few isolated pockets makes archery hunting impossible. I don't think an adequate harvest goal could be achieved with any success. But you already knew this didn't you. Your argument can only suggest 2 things that I can think of.
So do you want us all to upgrade to muzzle loaders and push archery aside because it no longer works? Or do you want all archers to develop bows and crossbows that can replace the silent, broadside, 40 yard shot, patterned, researched, undisturbed pose of the daily routine that we require to take an animal with our archery equipment? We should take archery equipment to the next level so we can reliably hit that running animal with devastating force at 20 MPH past our stands at ranges of 50 to 100 yards to compete with the firearm. Your argument either has no significance whatsoever or you want one of these 2 things. Which should we conclude?
 

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I predict Michigan will not happen. Dan do you want to hunt in Michigan? As you know I do live in Ohio and hunt exclusively in Michigan so I feel like I have a vest interest in what happens there.
 

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I have had the chance to hunt in Michigan on several occasions. My aunt and uncle lived there for a short time in order for him to complete his time on the railroad for retirement. Since 1989 or 90 I have been visiting MI's Pigeon River Country State forest for morel season. I stopped doing this about 1999 or 2000 because I developed enough Ohio hot spots to justify staying home. I took a friend up for the 2003 season I think? But haven't been back since. I think he and a few of his friends have gone every year since then. We are all game hunters and mushroom hunters. We discussed hunting MI in length over the 2003 campfire up there. The general consensus was the deer herd quality was much better in Ohio and we felt we would have more success in our home ranges. Me being mostly a meat hunter and him being from PA originally mostly a rack hunter. He still has a cabin outside of Smethport PA. We visit it twice a year once in the spring for the ham and leeks festivals and once in the summer for our yearly work on the cabin projects. None of the other hunters that are partners of that cabin hunt PA anymore. They all hunt Ohio now or have stopped hunting for one reason or another.
No I don't think I would hunt deer in Michigan regardless of how the crossbow vote goes. And the same for PA. If I were going to hunt either state it would likely be during rifle season for that unique experience since I can't use a rifle here in Ohio. But only after I felt the overall herd quality was up to par with Ohio's in both places.
My situation is unique though. I currently have a lot of time and money invested in 123 acres of private land in SE Ohio for our deer program there. I also have permission and family land that totals more acreage than I care to walk. And all those properties are adjacent to Mead Paper and Southern Ohio Coal land that is also available for hunting. I am guessing a total near 600-700 acres and that's a modest guess. And this area regularly produces 160+ class deer. SO I just have too much time and money invested here to justify paying a guide or researching a new location in another state. Out of all that land available to me for hunting I have narrowed my optimum spots down to about 10 total acres scattered throughout. And only 5 of those acres are on the land farmed for plots. And only 2 or 3 of those are what I would consider optimum for archery. It's taken me 32 years to do that kind of research and it is hard for me to give that up. It's like having a favorite section of river to fish in. Can you stop anywhere and catch fish...probably. But can you pick a couple of honey holes and have more success...yes.
 

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My friend that use's a crossbow goes to S/E Ohio to gun hunt every year and we talk about going down there for archery season as we/he has permission to hunt some dandy farms.
 

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I predict Michigan will not happen.
Terry - you may be right
Michigan may not happen this year

BUT, it WILL happen
If not this year, then next year or the next year

BUT IT WILL HAPPEN
As archers that are wanting Crossbows for ALL hunters
out number the ones that don't

It is just a matter of time,
before it happens in Michigan and everywhere else !!!!
 

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lol-so you are unwilling to share-just want to keep the longest part of deer season to yourself. Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black. lol

It's the number of deer hunters in the woods (hunting pressure, bait piles etc) that turn the deer nocturnal, not the weapon used.

The quietest gun I ever heard was a crossbow.
 

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Stinger171 said:
lol-so you are unwilling to share-just want to keep the longest part of deer season to yourself. Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black. lol

It's the number of deer hunters in the woods (hunting pressure, bait piles etc) that turn the deer nocturnal, not the weapon used.
Nope it's the sound of all the guns going off in my area. The hunters coming and going are pretty skilled and make little to no impact with their presence until the shots are fired. As for sharing it's already been done. All of the silent stealthy weapons can be used in all seasons. All of the firearms share a common season with the exception of the muzzle loader which enjoys it's own season. But I can use my crossbow in that season if I choose. I muzzle loader hunt so that's the weapon I use in muzzle loader season. My cousin and my son both choose to use the muzzle loader in modern weapons season. How much more sharing can you get to validate each seasons intended purpose for harvesting deer? Read my previous post again you might get it the second time around.
 

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Now you are being elitist in your attitude again Dan. There are way too many I's and ME's in your last post that confirm your self centered agenda and it's blatantly obvious. LOL
 

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Stinger171 said:
Now you are being elitist in your attitude again Dan. There are way too many I's and ME's in your last post that confirm your self centered agenda and it's blatantly obvious. LOL
In your mind I expect that's true. But does anybody else see where I used I's for anything other than describing that I could use in the context of "we" a
crossbow in the muzzle loader season and I use a muzzle loader in muzzle loading season. I have yet to find a "Me" maybe I missed them?

You sir are a troll of the worst sort. Somewhere along the way you have learned to fish. Well this bait store is closed. When you care to have a valid response to my arguments and observations based on fact and statistics and experiences then I will acknowledge your existence. Thank you please come again!:D
 

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Stinger171 said:
Mark Twain said there are three types of lies:

"Lies, Damn Lies, And Statistics".
Well you can quote me with this:
buckeye dan said there are 3 types of trolls:
"Trolls that lie, Trolls that use damn lies, And trolls that quote authors of fiction from the turn of the century because they have attempted to fight a battle of statistics armed only with misinformation and misdirection."
 

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UB of P

It has come to my attention by the United Bow Hunters of Pennsylvania that a bill was introduced and supported by at least 55 members to legalize crossbows in the Pennsylvania Archery season. As you would suspect they are in opposition to the bill and have already started their negative smear campaign to defeat this bill. They have already done a blanket recorded call system to all members and past members of the UB of PA to warn them of this and to contact their representatives in opposition.This is a battle we need to win, so all the help we can get, we need. I have attached a list they have posted on their website as talking points of why the crossbow should not be allowed read it in disbelief these people are consumed with keeping the archery season all to themselves at all costs. So again any and all help will be appreciated and please notify your friends , relatives and anybody else you know in Pennsylvania to support this bill and to contact their representative.I will keep you updated as this progresses with any additional attack material generated by the UB of PA. Please see the attached talking points of the UB of PA and a flyer!
Thanks,
pa crossbow

http://www.ubofpa.org/Talking Points.pdf
http://www.ubofpa.org/Bowhunter Alert Flyer.pdf
 
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