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And this is why I am willing to give this relatively new comer a chance.....I think he's onto something. Maybe its not a new process,but he has tweaked it to another realm...
I want to see and hear reviews from someone other than TOTR though.

That’s why I suggested he send out 3 shaft packs to a half dozen people for a real trial.
 

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Deathstalker 380 Spynal Tapps Rage Hypodermics
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There was a dot placed between the in vanes during the build process
Jerry, I know you've posted this before but I forget the answer...On the Tapps, did you say that you index/dot the shaft on the stiff side or neutral plane? And if it's the neutral plane, why is it?
 

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Jerry, I know you've posted this before but I forget the answer...On the Tapps, did you say that you index/dot the shaft on the stiff side or neutral plane? And if it's the neutral plane, why is it?
He told me yesterday that he puts silver mark on spine and goes between two hen vane opposite cock.
 

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Discussion Starter #64
Jerry, I know you've posted this before but I forget the answer...On the Tapps, did you say that you index/dot the shaft on the stiff side or neutral plane? And if it's the neutral plane, why is it?
We put the statically tested stiff side between the hen vanes ONLY because there is a false perception that it needs to be placed there. It could also be placed in line with the cock vane

The fact is static and dynamic spine appear in the same orientation or more accurately stated they are in the same plane

When an arrow flies it develops ONLY two spine deflections, the stiff plane and 90 degrees from the stiff plane the neutral plane

If you were to test an arrows deflection dynamically you would find the stiff plane dynamic deflection when oriented at 12 and 6 has that same deflection 22.5 degrees to the right and left of 12 and 6

When the neutral plane which is at 3 and 9 has the same weaker deflection 22.5 degrees left and right of 3 and 9

So an arrow in flight has only 2 dynamic deflections 360 degrees around the shaft the stiff plane and the weaker neutral plane

If you ever hear someone refer to the first bending plane they are wrong. What they are referring to is the natural bend in a shaft.

The stiff plane can be in line with the natural bend, fact is it is most likely in line but not 100% of the time

Folks who refer to the bending plane believe you can press down on a shaft on rollers and it will roll around to the natural bend

The flaw in this concept is it can also roll to the static weak point on the shaft which has nothing to do with dynamic spine

I will do a video soon, maybe today
 

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We put the statically tested stiff side between the hen vanes ONLY because there is a false perception that it needs to be placed there. It could also be placed in line with the cock vane
That’s where my set of Tapp Hunters were.

Whenever I had older shafts to spine check, I’d mark them, hold them up to my Bitz, rotate the shaft 180º, and start with the cock vane first.

When I saw the spine mark on the cock vane side I thought duh . . . . (y)
 

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Jerry is it true that , lets say one of your custom arrows or even a BEE out of the box, that after 20 to 40 shots going into a hard Blob type of target. That that carbon arrow will break down and loose its integrity and not shoot like a new one.
 

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Jerry is it true that , lets say one of your custom arrows or even a BEE out of the box, that after 20 to 40 shots going into a hard Blob type of target. That that carbon arrow will break down and loose its integrity and not shoot like a new one.
I have limited experience compared to many here but have shot the same arrows dozens of times at 400 to 440fps, 20-ish yards.
They slam hard into a target, that is certain.

I did notice that after a certain # of shots, not sure of the exact count, the arrows were not maintaining the same POI.
I thought it was me, the scope, the strings, etc, etc.
Now I know that the carbon shafts are another important variable to consider.

If I was competition shooting at Olympic distances of 77 yards (70m) I would not use an arrow more than a few times if I wanted to score well.
Just my opinion and Jerry has mentioned that this is indeed the case.
For deer hunting, say 15 to 40 yards, I would not be as concerned.
 

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Discussion Starter #68
Jerry is it true that , lets say one of your custom arrows or even a BEE out of the box, that after 20 to 40 shots going into a hard Blob type of target. That that carbon arrow will break down and loose its integrity and not shoot like a new one.
I think it may be possible though I have never had a customer contact me with the complaint of arrows loosing accuracy after only a few shots

If that happened I would check nocks, points, the bow, my process before I believed a carbon arrow would loose spine so quickly
 

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Discussion Starter #69
I have limited experience compared to many here but have shot the same arrows dozens of times at 400 to 440fps, 20-ish yards.
They slam hard into a target, that is certain.

I did notice that after a certain # of shots, not sure of the exact count, the arrows were not maintaining the same POI.
I thought it was me, the scope, the strings, etc, etc.
Now I know that the carbon shafts are another important variable to consider.

If I was competition shooting at Olympic distances of 77 yards (70m) I would not use an arrow more than a few times if I wanted to score well.
Just my opinion and Jerry has mentioned that this is indeed the case.
For deer hunting, say 15 to 40 yards, I would not be as concerned.
I had a few what I would call world class archers who shoot 1000s of shots on a set of arrows and never see accuracy go away on only a 100 shots or less
 
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I had a few what I would call world class archers who shoot 1000s of shots on a set of arrows and never see accuracy go away on only a 100 shots or less
Sure at what FPS?
I'm sure you stated earlier that an arrow's spine, the carbon itself, or both, would change characteristic's after high speed impacts.
 
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Discussion Starter #71 (Edited)
Sure at what FPS?
I'm sure you stated earlier that an arrow's spine, the carbon itself, or both, would change characteristic's after high speed impacts.

Good point, they shoot under 400 fps
 
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Good point, it's under 400 fps
Trust me Jerry, I would NEVER get into a debate with you LOL.

All the knowledge you share here is for the ages and appreciated by many, if not all, Members here.
You should consider having someone write a book for you.
Seriously.

Much respect,
dyno.
 

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Good point, they shoot under 400 fps
You guys are both great Subject Matter Experts. But I don’t think past experiences are the same as recent FPS/Kinetic Energy levels we now are using?

We are pushing modern bows but perhaps trying to do it with 300 plus FPS arrows??

But hey I enjoy reading these posts and learning just thought another opinion might help

Thx
 

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I'm no arrow expert but I've shot a few thousand arrows over the years and I've never seen the spine shot out of an arrow. I'm shooting a bow now at 447 FPS and still not witnessing it. Not doubting that it may deviate a little but not to the point that I care. I'm glad I only use my crossbows to kill animals because some of this supposed new arrow information being posted is actually archaic. No need to reinvent the wheel. We're not trying to split atoms. The current North American manufactured crossbow packages are already more accurate than 90% of their users.
 

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Nothing wrong with calling the kettle black when the proof is right there in the pudding. Geez......
 

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I'm no arrow expert but I've shot a few thousand arrows over the years and I've never seen the spine shot out of an arrow. I'm shooting a bow now at 447 FPS and still not witnessing it. Not doubting that it may deviate a little but not to the point that I care. I'm glad I only use my crossbows to kill animals because some of this supposed new arrow information being posted is actually archaic. No need to reinvent the wheel. We're not trying to split atoms. The current North American manufactured crossbow packages are already more accurate than 90% of their users.
Great points for sure Crossbow Todd..but the work these guys are doing will do will do one of two things. 1. It will verify that increased speed and energy doesn’t affect the longevity and accuracy of said arrows. Or 2. They will invent a better mousetrap (arrow) in which case it is a Win/Win right?
 

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Discussion Starter #77
Great points for sure Crossbow Todd..but the work these guys are doing will do will do one of two things. 1. It will verify that increased speed and energy doesn’t affect the longevity and accuracy of said arrows. Or 2. They will invent a better mousetrap (arrow) in which case it is a Win/Win right?
I'm actually working on a new arrow that will be a composite

It should be more durable than anything on the market
 

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I thing I may call it "The Woody"
Can't imagine an arrow better than the four dozen Tapps I already have! I guess I better start saving up, AGAIN!
 

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I thing I may call it "The Woody"
Jerry that is rather "catchy" for a title and I could see the advertisement for your new arrow now............
"Use a Woody....anything else is just limp"
 
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