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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Shartac/Edgetac 375g BH and FPs

Back in Feb 2022, I was contacted by Dave at Shartac to see if I would be willing to test these BHs. I reluctantly agreed but expressed my reservations.

I tested with a BD400 and an X1.

The BD arrows were 20” Zombies, 110 insert, flat plastic nock and AV3 vanes, made by Boo. Weight total - 691g. 287’/sec (27.3 FOC)

The X1 arrows were a rough prototype of the new KI match or heavy arrow. 22” KI shafts, non-indexed , 130g inserts, ARC nocks, and 1 degree offset Heat vanes. Weight total 750g. 289’/sec (26.3 FOC)

I tested at 20,30,40,50 and 60 yards. 20 yard accuracy was 1-hole for each. 60 yards was the farthest tested and accuracy was excellent.

A prototype KI scope with a minimum speed setting of 340 was used on the BD. Again, actual launch speed was 287’/sec. I sighted in at 20 yards on the scope’s lowest setting of 340’/sec. I then shot at 30, 40 and 50, and it was shocking dead on!! This scope was the one that had poorly spaced 60 and above range lines. 60 was off virtually the same as it was with the KI 390g arrows. The trajectory was surprisingly flat. I called Brian Miller who stated that he was having a similar experience. The ballistic coefficient had increased so much that the trajectories of the arrows from both xbows were drastically affected for the better. From Brian Miller: stock KI arrow BC - 0.083, with 375g point - 0.125, with 775g point - 0.269. Those are big jumps. Trajectory-wise (when initially sighted-in @ 20 yards) much of the velocity loss is made up for by the increased BC.

Accuracy (60 yards). Many of the times i tested the field points through the X1, the groups were essentially 1-hole. Other times, up to 1” and always vertical. The BHs consistently hit within 1/2” of the field points and generally grouped 1/2”. The AV3 vanes were significantly more accurate than other vanes through the BD. I got the same level of accuracy out of the X1 with the KI shaft arrows.

The 375g BHs were very hard on my 18-1 targets and I used a 1/4” plywood backstop.

Summary. Extreme accuracy through 60 yards. Surprisingly flat trajectory. Very quiet, as can be imagined. I expect they would pass through virtually anything and whatever is hit will die very soon. No need, out of these two drastically different xbows , to practice with the broad heads since they truly hit where the field points hit. Note: all testing was with the broad heads indexed @ 12/6.

Pictures with captions will follow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Just like 4 years ago, when I first reported on the original SWAT, I have just tried to report objectively my findings. The SWAT surpassed my highest expectations. Maybe that was fairly transparent.

The accuracy of these BHs out to 60 yards was truly amazing. I never expected this. I’m just sharing what I found. Hopefully other testers will soon also. The construction quality of these single bevel BHs is excellent.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
A few more testing observations.

With the BD400 (conventional railed crossbow) , I didn’t get very good accuracy until I started using arrows with the extreme control of the AV3 vanes.
But, with the X1, the accuracy was even a little better with just the standard 1 degree offset of the very small Heat vanes. The enclosed rail’s advantages are hard to over emphasize.

A significant finding is that foc has such an effect on BC, which, in turn, has a major effect on trajectory. Traditionally, arrow drop charts show the drops from a horizontal launch (no upward vertical component at all). However, that is not how we sight in. We do have an upward component. The slower the launch, the greater this upward component is. The greater the upward component, the flatter the trajectory will seem.

Comparatively very high foc has a lot of advantages: greater accuracy, crosswind resistance, terminal performance, others(?). A huge, flat single blade broad head is historically very difficult to steer. However, when launched straight out of the SWAT’s barrel, the 375g large, flat bladed BH flew very accurately with virtually no vane control. FOC has to be the major factor.
In contrast, with the conventionally railed BD400, the broad head needed extreme guidance (AV3s ) to be accurate. Even AV 2s resulted quite inaccurate flight as did helical Blazers (both out of the BD).

Summary.
These broad heads can very accurately be used out of either a conventionally railed or fully enclosed rail crossbow. Accuracy can be excellent, at least through 60 yards. The actual experienced trajectory is much flatter than many of us would imagine (at least me). You’re not going to bend this broad head!
Don’t pre-judge the usability of this BH like I did. I will have one X1 set up to hunt with the Edgetac 375 for this next year. This year’s bear likely won’t go far!
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Just a couple of thoughts.

The arrows used with the BD were 20” zombies, 110g inserts, flat plastic nocks. The only unique part of this arrow was the usage of AV3 vanes. The nature of a recurve/non-compound xbow is to produce maximum launch stress and thus, maximum archer’s paradox. Yet, groups are 1” or less and BH/FP impacts normally within 1”, sometimes 2” @ 60 yards.

The arrows used with the X1 were 22” and have the exact same spine of Executioners (only 75% as stiff as Zombies). They had heavier than normal inserts (130g) . These are not stiff arrows, but were extremely accurate out of the X1 with a combined weight of 505g at the front of this arrow. And only very minimal steering was provided by the small vanes (1 degree offset).

The conventionally railed xbow took a tremendous amount of steering (see Edgetac’s comment) which the AV3 has also. The X1 just used a comparatively weak shaft and very little steering and yet, was more accurate .

This is a Really big deal, that is, the enclosed barrel AND the ability of that massive BH to be so accurate!
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
We’re having a major division of thoughts here.

One is stating that very stiff and heavy arrows plus extreme steering (and resultant drag) is required for accurate arrow flight with these comparatively large surfaced, heavy broad heads, while conclusive evidence is being posted that comparative simple arrows are shooting these BHs well out of a high performance, traditional, recurve crossbow and that comparatively weak arrows with minimal fletching is adequate out of a fully enclosed railed crossbow.

The traditionally railed xbow arrow has a moderately stiff (Zombie) shart and is comparatively short (20”) but has extreme vane control (AV3s).

With the vertical alignment of the flat blade being shot out of a crossbow may greatly minimize the detrimental effects of archer’s paradox in comparison to what is observed with vertical bows.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Edgetac,
We’re in agreement.

I’m trying to go strictly KI products for ALL future testing and videos. I’ve already gone to using a rough prototype of their upcoming “heavy” arrow offering - this is their non-indexed proprietary shaft (the same one that’s in their other arrows). That’s why I used their shafts in the X1 for this testing.

Yes, the accuracy is that good.

“Lucky enough to own an X1”. KI or any of it’s dealers would be happy to help people become “lucky”.😊

Yes, Duke, when the heat index lowers a little, I’ll do that. It’s been on my radar, just for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Here's what ... I need. I need a graph of a 400gr/450fps arrow sighted in at 30 yards vs a graph of a 775gr/287fps arrow. I'm having a hard time understanding how 287fps is better than 400+fps. I'm also having a hard time figuring out why in 50 years of compound bow/crossbow archery after bows reached about 300fps, nobody wanted heavy, slow arrows to kill deer. I realize we have some uber-talented people around here, but hundreds of thousands of past archers didn't discover this? Ballistic coefficient is wonderful but a great BC of a .50 caliber BMG has little meaning or use to a guy shooting woodchucks.
Duke,
Indulge me for a bit. These BHs offer another alternative for the hunter. This entire thread is about how this BH performed during testing. Some of us are getting surprising and very unexpected results: extreme accuracy even at ranges well beyond the majority of crossbow hunters personal range for hunting, flatter trajectories than expected, & as expected - quietness, etc..

For everyone? No. But where I bear hunt, an over #500 bear is a distinct possibility as are huge hogs.
I started using rangefinders in 1983 and still do. And that was with a 210’/sec, 125# Foxfire shooting a 2219/145 Bear Super Razorhead. As time has gone on, range has become less of a concern and accuracy has become paramount. This extreme accuracy is a major factor in my apparent obsession with the SWAT line of bows as well as their other features.
Which rifle did Carlos Hathcock use for the 800+ meter heart shot of the NVA 4-star: a Rem 700 308 or his Win M70 300 Win Mag? Which was more accurate? Which had the flatter trajectory?
You know, of course - he used the 308.

Your hunting situation and requirements are significantly different that the average crossbow user’s .

For at least two of us testing this BH, our eyes were opened as to the potential of this broad head; and I will keep one X1 set up just for this BH. It will be my preferred set up for my most important hunt, to me, my annual bear hunt. And likely, for every bear hunt after that. And also likely, for a # of my deer stands.

But being the notorious longer range hunter that I am, my other crossbows will have lighter, flatter set-ups.

Summary: No one is saying that this is the best hunting BH nor advocating its wide spread usage. This is a test report of a unique BH that performed surprisingly well and beyond almost everybody’s or everybody’s expectations.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Duke,
That Quora article referencing the 40 Cheytac. I use the 40Cheytac selection on my Quick Load program for loading data (for starting) on my 3 40 Cal Smokeless Powder Muzzleloaders and have shot a “few” 20 mm cartridges mentioned a few posts down.
Thank you for your open mindedness!
We learn by testing. No dry lab but all wet labs. Surprises happen. I was impressed but not overly surprised with my 1st SWAT over 4 years ago. I was impressed AND surprised at the results of my testing of the 375g BHs. I had actually told Dave that I was not his man to be testing these. He had a different idea.
Steve
 
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