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Hunter
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6,187 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Among the many states that have provisions for a special disability permit for the use of crossbows.In the future, Do you think this type of permit will ever be reciprocal? ,like my concealed weapons permit,good in several states.
 

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Incurable Tinkerer
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5,031 Posts
IMO, only if there are enough folks make am issue of it. Given the numbers of folks affected, like as not it won't happen any time soon to any degree; much like the carry reciprocity.
 

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Senior Member
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665 Posts
hopefully they wont need to use a permit in any state

I know Im dreaming but...
 

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Member
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72 Posts
No

Not that I wouldn't like to see it or, for that matter, no restrictions whatsoever however, to your question, the answer is no. Here's why.

Let's use Michigan and Maryland for an example. Maryland's criteria for a person with a disability to use a crossbow during the archery season basically states that you simply need to obtain a letter from your personal physician that states in his/her professional opinion that you have a disability (of any type) that render you unable to use a regular bow.

Michigan on the other hand, has the most restrictive criteria in the USA for a person with a disability to obtain a permit. It is limited in the type of disability that is acceptable, it must be a "permanent" disability and it must be at least 80% degree of severity.

So, even though you may qualify under Maryland's criteria, unless you meet Michigan's criteria, you cannot hunt with a crossbow. In other words; no reciprocation.

And just to let you know, the folks that help write that criteria back in the early 1990's, The Michigan Bowhunters Association, recently put out this statement in response to some changes that were being explored by our DNR to reduce some of the criteria:

The Michigan Bow Hunters Association Position Statement regarding propose crossbow regulation changes and laser sight usage

The Michigan Bow Hunters Association does not support using age as a condition for determining crossbow eligibility. Eligibility should be determined by need on a case by case basis.

MBH supports the current standard for determining crossbow permit eligibility for physically challenged hunters. However we are opposed to lowering the level of permanent disability from 80% to 60%. Our Association acknowledges that the current evaluation process for crossbow permit applicants is expensive and frequently abused.

We therefore support removal of the physician from the evaluation process as a means of addressing both issues. Also, we would be very supportive of a more vigorous scrutiny of crossbow permit applications by the DNR Law division to further address the abuse issue. In addition, there are other issues with the crossbow permit system not mentioned in the proposal. We look forward to working with the NRC to resolve these concerns.



Some great sportmen's group, eh?
 

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Obsessed Huntress
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5,583 Posts
Anti hunters. Like it stated- They are against...blah, blah, blah. Anyone(s) that is against is ANTI. Anyone(s) that tries and negatively control certain sectors, without being part of the legal system is anti. What if they allowed fishermen, trappers or rifle shooters to try and control bow issues. Would that be acceptable?

I'm just totally puzzled as to how they have any bearing in this matter.
They don't have a membership of crossbow hunters where as this crossbow
issue is concerned. No representation within their group. They are a membership allowed by paying a fee. Not scientists, not doctors, not specialist of any kind. Paid membership. No qualifications at all.

So, who's to blame for allowing that group to have a voice in any issues? Did they just take it upon themselves to have an impact on any hunting issues or what exactly? Does the local SCI chapter or the NRA chapter or Ducks Unlimited, etc. have any voice in these hunting issues there? Seems to me, they don't and should not have input for any legalities.
Someone with an education sure needs to step up in Michigan and straighten those Reps and Senators up and quick!
NOTE: See post #10 under Legislation/LA bill passes.
 

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Senior Member
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542 Posts
Michigan just passed some changes in the disability rules for crossbow use, but I don't think it really changed much from the old rule............

You almost have to be dead, to be able to obtain a crossbow permit in Michigan........

Shame, Shame, Shame............
 

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Senior Member
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542 Posts
HEY HEY

I just made my 1st post in Crossbow Nation.........

Hello CROSSbow Nation..........

Rev.............
 

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Senior Member
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542 Posts
Thanks for the welcome, I have already read a WEALTH of information................

Rev.........
 

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Senior Member
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512 Posts
Welcome Rev, pull up a pew, errr...... I mean stump, and sit a spell. All kidding aside, you'll like it here. These people know there stuff about crossbows.:thumbsup:
Kenny
 

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Senior Member
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542 Posts
I am used to pulling up a pew, and Listening.......I already love this forum......
 

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Senior Member
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224 Posts
Riva said:
Not that I wouldn't like to see it or, for that matter, no restrictions whatsoever however, to your question, the answer is no. Here's why.

Let's use Michigan and Maryland for an example. Maryland's criteria for a person with a disability to use a crossbow during the archery season basically states that you simply need to obtain a letter from your personal physician that states in his/her professional opinion that you have a disability (of any type) that render you unable to use a regular bow.

Michigan on the other hand, has the most restrictive criteria in the USA for a person with a disability to obtain a permit. It is limited in the type of disability that is acceptable, it must be a "permanent" disability and it must be at least 80% degree of severity.

So, even though you may qualify under Maryland's criteria, unless you meet Michigan's criteria, you cannot hunt with a crossbow. In other words; no reciprocation.

And just to let you know, the folks that help write that criteria back in the early 1990's, The Michigan Bowhunters Association, recently put out this statement in response to some changes that were being explored by our DNR to reduce some of the criteria:

The Michigan Bow Hunters Association Position Statement regarding propose crossbow regulation changes and laser sight usage

The Michigan Bow Hunters Association does not support using age as a condition for determining crossbow eligibility. Eligibility should be determined by need on a case by case basis.

MBH supports the current standard for determining crossbow permit eligibility for physically challenged hunters. However we are opposed to lowering the level of permanent disability from 80% to 60%. Our Association acknowledges that the current evaluation process for crossbow permit applicants is expensive and frequently abused.

We therefore support removal of the physician from the evaluation process as a means of addressing both issues. Also, we would be very supportive of a more vigorous scrutiny of crossbow permit applications by the DNR Law division to further address the abuse issue. In addition, there are other issues with the crossbow permit system not mentioned in the proposal. We look forward to working with the NRC to resolve these concerns.



Some great sportmen's group, eh?
Maybe I should petition the DNR of the State of Md to disallow the hunting license applications of any Michigan bow hunters, or at least put some process in place to put them through the same rigorous 'qualification' testing that they'd put me through.

I have a doctor's permit for crossbows in the State of Maryland.
If they don't want me hunting in their state, they're not welcome in mine, no matter what kind of bow they're using....

Now that I think about it, this is what makes the most sense, for all states
to implement:

"The crossbow permit reciprocity agreement mirrors our hunter's safety training reciprocity agreement. Any non-resident hunter applicant must produce a hunters safety training certificate and a crossbow permit from the hunter's state/county of residency, if that NR hunter wishes to hunt with a crossbow in the State of _______ ."

There are many states that establish reciprocity agreements based on license application fees. I see very little difference when it comes to viewing both as the same 'opportunity' based reciprocity decisions.
 

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Senior Member
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oldbhtrnewequip said:
Maybe I should petition the DNR of the State of Md to disallow the hunting license applications of any Michigan bow hunters, or at least put some process in place to put them through the same rigorous 'qualification' testing that they'd put me through.

I have a doctor's permit for crossbows in the State of Maryland.
If they don't want me hunting in their state, they're not welcome in mine, no matter what kind of bow they're using....

Now that I think about it, this is what makes the most sense, for all states
to implement:

"The crossbow permit reciprocity agreement mirrors our hunter's safety training reciprocity agreement. Any non-resident hunter applicant must produce a hunters safety training certificate and a crossbow permit from the hunter's state/county of residency, if that NR hunter wishes to hunt with a crossbow in the State of _______ ."

There are many states that establish reciprocity agreements based on license application fees. I see very little difference when it comes to viewing both as the same 'opportunity' based reciprocity decisions.
Hey partner don't blame everyone in Michigan for the stupidity of some..........YOU are very welcome in Michigan as far as I am concerned...........

Rev...........
 

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Member
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23 Posts
My first post here, but I have been a lurker for awhile. The changes that they propose for Michigan are not very subsantial. I had to jump through the hoops to get my permit from them. I had to pay for a therapist out of my own pocket to evaluate my condition. Then have my doctor sign off on the form. There happens to be other medical conditions that impact shooting a bow, other than the lose of an arm or your head. The MBH and other associations in Michigan are making life miserable for many. The U.P. Whitetails, and some other association up by Marquette are the worst. For 25 years I hunted with a bow in MI and paid for my license. Now that I am not able to shoot one I have to go home and sit and not hunt because of a health problem. I really don't think the people making the decisions as to who, and what type or degree of disability should be or not be considered. After numerous cortisone shots for pain to keep shooting. My doctor told me crossbow or no more shots. They did surgery on my left elbow to place the nerve somewhere else, and repair the mangled tendions. The doctor walked out after the surgery and told my wife. I could not fix anything, but just hope the pain goes away. Ok, Ok, I ranted but hate how unqualified people can sway others.
 

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Armed Citizen
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1,918 Posts
When you look at these processes for disability permits in the long term what do they accomplish? They allow anyone who goes through the process of getting one to hunt with one unless they fail. And in most cases in archery season where the vertical bows are.

Now if you think about it that is right where the vertical archers don't want you to be. So what is the result of this? It put's a large financial burden on the disabled hunter to prove they have to use a crossbow. Most disabled hunters are on fixed incomes and can't afford these processes. And it does so just to appease the vertical hunter that the crossbow isn't archery but it is OK if you can't use their form of bow. But these people are the ones who stand to benefit the most from that extra meat on the table.

Looking at it from an economic view point how many dollars per pound should your deer meat cost if you spend all the money to go through the process of getting the special permit?

Now what other burdens are created to appease these minority special interest organizations? It actually causes the states a huge expense to issue and track these permits for disabled hunters. And think about what it costs to police them. Those small special interest organizations have been so successful in convincing everyone that the crossbow isn't a valid archery weapon that it is carrying over into what a disabled person can use.

If your arrow remains cocked and is roughly 4 inches shorter than theirs, being fired from a horizontal launching system then you have to pay lots of money to prove you should use it. And this money should be paid by all that do not fit their description of archery because that is how it is. I don't think I am the only one that sees this as wrong.

I think the financial burden should not be put on the hunter. I think the financial burden should fall on to either the state or the organization that dictated those boundaries in the first place. That will rattle cages to no end.
Why should a non able bodied hunter have to pay more for a deer in archery season than an able bodied hunter? When we all know the non able bodied hunter stands to benefit the most from the harvest.
 

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Hunter
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6,187 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Agree,What he said.
 

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Incurable Tinkerer
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5,031 Posts
to GG

"I'm just totally puzzled as to how they have any bearing in this matter."

But they are VOCAL. We should take a message from that.
 

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Banned
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1,025 Posts
Although I don't need a disability permit in Ar as they are legal for all, a letter from my Dr. here is good in Tx, Ok, and Mo. It wasn't "good" in La, had to be a La Dr, but that's a moot point now! I've got a well documented bad shoulder [draw side] and bad knee, got a file an inch thick from another state. My Dr read it, gave me a few range of motion tests, just charged me my regular monthly office visit fee and I was on my way. I wish it was that simple for every one. It should be. These Dr's make life and death decisions every day. They durn well are qualified to judge if one needs an xbow to hunt in any state.
 
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