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what would you have done-can you see my point ?

  • I would never have done this : stupid bad wrong...

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  • I would have done the same thing : good move, wise..

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  • I agree with the logic, it would have been really close and terminator would have gotten the nod..

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Discussion Starter #1
175 # HP terminator versus DStryker... and

HP 175 #terminator wins...
tell me what you think of this decision : I compared the speed and noise and accuracy of the two bows, the DS won but not by a great amount... some little differences in speed and quiet and accuracy seem to exist but I determined to get the terminator instead.
the 15 fps does not seem enough to call for the DS to sway it; the one half inch accuracy difference at 20 or 30 yards did not sway me sufficiently; the difference in quietness did not do it for me either... for the four hundred dollars difference I could not see that I should start with the DS as my first crossbow... If I shoot 3d and need the extra speed and accuracy for target scoring or otherwise see the terminator holds me back it will likely not be thta way intially or so it seems... I am operating on the assumption that the terminator will more than suffice for minute of kill zone for deer up to 50 yards at least... and sinc eitis unknown if I iwll target shoot that much or that well it is not a significant difference this year and may not be sufficiently different ever ... as in I may not shoot well enough or often enough to warrant the extra money expended at this point. If I get good enough or the bow ever limits my performance in the field I can move up to the other cross bow and either sell this one or pass it to other family members...
OK I am gonna post this on the Bow Tech site too.. do you think I made a big mistake ? should have gotten the DS if at all possible for the little differences between the two.. do you think that the differences are much greater than I factored in ?
I am gonna get the terminator at this point but I just want to know what the train of thought is on this matter..Bear in mind I can get the other bow later or sooner if it is obvious the terminator was a terrible choice for me...
If you care to respond I would appreciate it... I will not be dissapointed if you think I lost my mind.. I am good with my decision for now.. but I am curious.. if you have time let me know what you think...
SO TO MAKE IT QUICK AND EASY HERE IS A SIMPLE POLL :

a : BAD MOVE - NEVER WOULD HAVE MADE THIS CHOICE
b : GOOD MOVE - SAME CHOICE I WOULD HAVE MADE
c : ACCEPTABLE CRITERIA- I COULD HAVE MADE THIS CHOICE BUT WOULD HAVE GONE WITH THE DESERT STRYKER
d : ACCEPTABLE CRITERIA - AND I WOULD HAVE GONE THE SAME WAY LOOKING AT IT THIS WAY
dk
 

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Incurable Tinkerer
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You'd be wiser to compare the Cyclone with the DS. Both look futuristic. I'm getting 350 fps with mine, at less that half the price.
 

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The DS already has most of it's issues worked out.

The cyclone has reported string and trigger issues. If I had a new bow (cyclone) blow up in my face, then get a replacement and it blew up too. I wouldn't be promoting it but that is just me.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
50 Yards Is My Max Actually

URBAN LEGEND : YOU ARE CORRECT IN THAT FIFTY YARDS IS MY MAX EXPECTED AFTER MUCH PRACTICE ETC.
I DO AGREE WE HAVE TO PROMOTE ETHICAL HUNTING AND REASONABLE SHOTS...
I WILL NOT ATTEMPT ANY SHOT I CANNOT KEEP WITHIN A PIE PLATE EVERY TIME .. AND I WILL NOT ATTEMPT THAT IF THERE IS A DOUBT THE KINETIC ENERGY WILL NOT DO THE COMPLETE PASS THROUGH REQUISITE TO MY PERSONAL GOAL FOR KILLING WHAT I SHOOT...AND RECOVERING IT..
(NO OFFENSE TAKEN, OF COURSE )
I just want to be able to shoot to the range that is repeatable and ethical under the conditions presented... the reason I ;picked fifty yards is that seems the most that the majority of hunters claim to be able to kill ethically at, and if the terminator HP will not do that but the Desert STryker will I wanted that to be a factor in the polling and accompnying comments..

I AM INTERESTED IN OTHER OPINIONS AND DIALOGUE CONCERNING THIS CHOICE I HAVE MADE... I AM NOT DEFENDING IT OR CHANGING IT BUT I AM SO CURIOUS AS TO OTHER OPINIONS BASED ON THESE TWO OR SIMILARLY COMPARABLE BOWS.. I DO AGREE THE CYCLONE IS FASTER AND CLOSER IN BALLISTICS AND CLOSER IN FEEL... I THINK I WILL BE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH A SHOT GUN LIKE STOCK AS THAT IS WHAT I HAVE MANY YEARS EXPERIENCE WITH POINT SHOOTING AND NATURALLY ALIGNING IT.. BUT I DO FIND THE MORE SEXY LINES OF THE DSTRYKER AND THE CYCLONE MORE APPEALING... HONESTLY...
DK
 

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Incurable Tinkerer
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Quote: "I ;picked fifty yards is that seems the most that the majority of hunters claim to be able to kill ethically at",
It's a long way between claiming being able to do something and doing it. 50 yards is a long way for an arrow to fly ACCURATELY....under field conditions. Yes it can be done but doing it consistently, with lethal and recoverable results, is another story.
Personally, 40 yards is more like the outside limit of (most) field shots for all but the exceptional shooter in exceptional field situations.
But it's only human tendency to try to best others. Just saw a show about shooting elk at 1,000 yards with a light caliber (6.8/284), and muzzleloaders are now being stretched to 250 yards. (Recent article about using one for prairie dogs!)
I'm guessing that 50 yards with a bow-of any kind-sounds more and more 'ethical'. It's not; it's exceptional IMO.

By the way minute of angle at 50 yards is not "pie plate" size...it's actually just about one half of one inch.. With a bow, THAT IS SOME SHOOTING.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
COSSACK : I am sincerely proud and glad the majority of members keep an eye out for unsafe and unethical shooting and hunting practices. In keeping with the same idea I will clarify : I suggest that since a pie plate is similar to the kill zone of a deer, then at whatever yardage I can keep every shot with the intended arrows and BHeads in that pie plate; that is the yardage I will consider for sufficient hunting accuracy (and I suggest that limit to everyone). Next I will try to determine if the arrow and head will perform by kinetic energy ratings and other evidence.... I think that a good accurate rangefinder and exact range and ballistic knowlege will be exponentially more crucial over 35 or 40 yards; so unless I have that exact data I cannot take the shot ethically.
I am glad for this dialogue, my posting did not reflect an accurate picture of the deep respect I have for wild game, nor the considerations necessary before taking a shot..
the conditions would also need to offer repeatable accuracy similar enough to practice conditions : wind elevation gradient of the shot up or down even the lighting... not to mention whether the animal is moving or not and the flight time of the arrow translated into lead to the target; the status of the target must be considered in whether to take the shot...
I agree cossack and urban legend and all other ethical hunters who need to lead the forum and add sanity and ethics to the dialogue that forms new hunters' ideas and actions...
I should point out that each step in the decison making process should be a go - no go determination and more often the ethical hunter will run out of time unless he has seen the animal more than once in that position and has prepared mentally and otherwise for that shot...
the last thing in the long list of things I should clarify upon is my own gut feeling at the moment... if I feel that I can make the shot and all else is right then it is a likely shot.. If I have doubts or trouble concentrating or focusing, then I should not ethically take the shot...
So more clearly : I have earmarked, as a goal, to pursue shots to fifty yards accurately and to one day be in form to view a fifty yard game shot under close to perfect conditions as an ethical opportunity for a harvest... I still will be sure to remain willing to pass on the shot if I deem it less than ethical under any level of realistic scrutiny. I do this with my open sighted pistols where fifty to sixty yards is a possible shot ... all things considered and all things checking out just like I need it to be... but most of the time it is not OK .. it is just what I work toward to be able to possibly do on rare occasions.
I appreciate and applaud the policing of the posts and hope that continues... I do realize that it is necessary to point out to others what is reality and what is not and how few and far between the shooters who can really repeatably ethically shoot at what distances. It was probably a mistake to so casually state it as previously stated in my post... so much unsaid... on the other hand ... to much information as a prelude is often just not read...
you need not allow me to cause you concern about my ethical hunting... I assure you that I am ethical and could take many shots instead of the few I take yearly... I pass on many, many shots and have for 25 or more years taken shots that I can assure my self I can make handily... it may not be this season that I am ready for more than a thirty five yard shot according to my criteria, but I am wanting a bow for the long haul cause this is something I am committed to doing like single shot rifles, sixguns, precision airguns, etc.
this has been a good dialogue and I hope it continues.

Since this thread is getting longer and possibly defunct, I think a good posting thread would be what considerations go into taking a shot at our own self imposed maximum distance.. what has to be known ? where does the internal feel for the shot come in last or first ?
please do not take this wrong and think I am defending instead of clarifying; I hope this post and all posts to provide education for us all and a good platform for exchange and dissemination of ideas ... it is the corrections and clarifications that benefit us all as long as it does not bore the other readers with personal attack and defend tactics; which this thread is a good one I hope for good things to come of it...

It certainly clarified or crystallized and expressed you guys and my views on the long range X BOW shots and how similar the ethics consideration are with any more primitive weapon such as a cross bow; is to an iron sighted pistol with a short barrel and a straight walled cartridge with a big bore cast lead bullet at slower speeds.
dk
 

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Either way you go

the deer you shoot at won't know the difference. I start smiling when people say " this crossbow is very accurate" :cool: I think virtually all of them are. For me, it's about shooting characteristics, recoil, noise levels, physical weight, ease of maintenance and what just feels good to me :) I make no bones about being pro Desert Stryker. It has all the above qualities in spades. I also own a Phantom that cost $500.00 more. It hangs in the workshop most of the time for one reason......extremely front end heavy and just plain heavy period. I've never purchased a crossbow by comparing price vs. features of another crossbow. Yep, I'm crazy like that:D Hunting shot distances is a personal thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Moon : I will likely get the DS next.. just decided not to start at the top until I know more what I want and what I can handle weight wise and what else I really want.. I felt the terminator was good enough to do the deal for me and then I can see more what I want when I am ready to spend a lot of cash by comparison... I may want one of the ten points or the stryker or DS.. but no use to buy one of those as a first cross bow... I know I want one and a good enough one to use it as long as it takes to define what is really the salient features I will want...the price is not really the main thing... I ususally end up with an example of one or two of the finest available of whatever I get into... but when I bought a used custom pistol I realized it would have mbeen more prudent to start at the really good stock level and then identify what it is I would want to have in my top of the line six shooter... etc. i decided to try it this way this time.. LOL
dk
 

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Just remember :)

Once can never have too many crossbows:D I love them all.....................but to different degrees of course:p
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I could really see this terminator going to a family member who needs it and getting something else one day.. just biding my time to get to the range with a new terminator HP. I am confident it will serve me well and it will fill the bill for the time being .. this season I am covered and we will see after that... after I kill something with it I will be much more relaxed..
dk
 

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I've yet to purchase my first but I'll offer my 2 cents anyway. I'm not looking at this like I'll just turn around and get the other if I don't like this one. It sounded like you were wanting to save money weighing the features against price. The way I see it, it would save money to buy the better one to start with, rather than buy them both. I look at it as more of a long term investment, so I want one that will last. It sounds like they're getting the bugs worked out of the DS. It would be nice if they would make them quiver ready though. I've read enough good things about the DS that I'm sure it will be my first choice. Now if you were comparing the DS to one of those high dollar Tenpoint's then I might be weighing the features against price. I'm sure tenpoint makes quality, but is it twice as good or better? That's just my 2 cents. I'm not going to address the ethics issues brought up on this thread either as I'm sure we're keeping it ethical now aren't we?
 

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I have a Terminator 175HP. I like it, shoots very well, and does it at 351 fps. I like the looks and feel of the DS, but I can't justify twice the money for the same performance. I might consider a Cyclone added to the stable, and then I can have 2 for the same price of one. Nice if one should go down during season. That is no big deal to me either as I live 15 miles from Parker. Walk in with the problem, walk out 15 mins later repaired or replaced. Worst case, I lose and evening hunt.
 

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Long shots...from another forum

"Well, please fuss at me for what I'm about to tell ya, please, cause I ought to have my aske kicked good! I shot a beautiful big 8 pointer Sat. evening at 6:05 PM. He was broadside and standing still even. But when I shot, he cocked down and turned to run and I hit him in the hip I think. I looked for him for two hours after leaving him alone for 3 hours. Temps in the low 40s last night. Then back in the woods for three hours this morning and still no buck or arrow. I saw the lighted nock arc towards his lungs but he moved before it got there. Then I heard it hit him, whack! Then no lighted nock in sight in him or on the ground. Now here's the fussing at me part. I didn't think he would come any closer to me since I hadn't been putting out corn cause of the price of it, so I ranged him with my Nikon at 55 yards! I took the shot and it would have been good, only he heard the shot before the arrow got to him. That's right, I said, 55 yards. Ain't that stupid? Go ahead, let me have it. I need it. Really. I can only say I'm sorry I made a stupid shot and wounded a nice buck. I think he will live but he's hurting. Yes he left a little bright red muscle blood here and there. I won't EVER take a long shot like that again. I promise!"
 

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Every once in a while we need a kick

My Dad whom I thought was very stupid when I was a youth got alot smarter to me as I grew up. His most favorite saying was this "Everybody has to go to school". When I was younger I didn't understand what that meant but now that I have grown up and have two sons that are 40 and 36 I do understand. This person made a mistake that they regret, they went to school, now they need to learn from that mistake. All of us have at one time or another done something that we regret later, thats how we learn. It takes a very big person to eat humble pie and admit they made a mistake and I commend them for that.I can only hope that the deer will fare well and live without alot of pain. You never know, maybe just maybe, God will allow the two of them to meet again and hopefully the outcome will be different.
pa crossbow
 

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Cossack said:
Long shots...from another forum

"Well, please fuss at me for what I'm about to tell ya, please, cause I ought to have my aske kicked good! I shot a beautiful big 8 pointer Sat. evening at 6:05 PM. He was broadside and standing still even. But when I shot, he cocked down and turned to run and I hit him in the hip I think. I looked for him for two hours after leaving him alone for 3 hours. Temps in the low 40s last night. Then back in the woods for three hours this morning and still no buck or arrow. I saw the lighted nock arc towards his lungs but he moved before it got there. Then I heard it hit him, whack! Then no lighted nock in sight in him or on the ground. Now here's the fussing at me part. I didn't think he would come any closer to me since I hadn't been putting out corn cause of the price of it, so I ranged him with my Nikon at 55 yards! I took the shot and it would have been good, only he heard the shot before the arrow got to him. That's right, I said, 55 yards. Ain't that stupid? Go ahead, let me have it. I need it. Really. I can only say I'm sorry I made a stupid shot and wounded a nice buck. I think he will live but he's hurting. Yes he left a little bright red muscle blood here and there. I won't EVER take a long shot like that again. I promise!"

Well everybody does things they find later they should not have.The important thing is we learn from our mistakes.
The fact you posted your mistake here for all to see and criticize, shows it must have really got to you.You could have kept it to yourself and no one but you would have known.
I will not put you down for I have committed a few similar brain farts in my day,but have tried to learn from every one.
If you don't learn from a mistake ,that is the real mistake.
Don't be so hard on your self you are among friends,just like you.
S.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I once had an accidental discharge with a large bore pistol and had to figure out how it occurred, as I thought I was beyond such things and usually considered myself careful at least...
I then shared it with others on line for the same reasons that you did : it bothered me and I wanted it to be a lesson to others instead of them learning the hard way or the harder way that could have occurred...
WHEN WE LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES WE CAN SEE PRETTY WELL IN OUR FUTURE THAT WE WILL NOT DO THAT THING AGAIN..
WHEN WE LEARN FROM THE MISTAKES OF OTHERS WE STAND ON THE SHOULDERS OF GIANTS...
thanks for your sharing.. thanks for the re posting.. it is nice to know we are not perfect.. and we are honest too..
pretty unique.. different...
dk
 
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