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We all get to decide for ourselves what level of $$$ we want to spend on whatever. There is a very good chance that 5-10-20 years down the road, you'll have gained enough experience to know whether that level of $$$ for that product works for you are not. Hopefully, at that point many will also have more disposable income and have the option to spend more, even if what they were using never actually failed them - although somewhere along the way, surely something got upgraded.

How many here have zero interest in crossbows costing less than $1000? Be honest - but hey, that is OK. If that is what you want to spend your money on, knock yourself out - buy whatever you want. Maybe you'll get your money's worth out of it, maybe you won't or maybe you'll just enjoy it so much that cost does't matter.

And most of the time, optics are going to be the same sort of thing. If you have no interest in lower end optics that give a person what they need, but nothing more - then absolutely buy whatever pleases you.

And if what you're using isn't working in low light or you're going to be spending hours looking though it - yes, start shopping & spend some more money.

But if you've spent 10-20-30 years figuring out what works for you, who's anybody to say 'you're doing it wrong', whether you have a high post count on some Internet forum - or not!
 

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Again explain to me how identifying an animal makes any conceivable difference when you cannot legally shoot him? And two if you can legally shoot him then it's bright enough any binocular will do.
You're right ... and wrong. If it's outside of legally defined daylight shooting hours it probably doesn't make much difference. Unless you're scouting for future hunts, or shooting on a depredation permit or hunting nuisance wildlife, varmints or invasive species, or to identify what's BEHIND your intended target, or to see if that deer/bear/hog you hit that bedded down is dead or still breathing, or, or, or ...lol

You were given many examples why a shooter would want top shelf glass to identify an animal and surroundings in broad daylight too.
 

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In a lot of states the legal shooting light is “First Light” which usually is about a half hour before sunrise. I’ve had mornings at first light where I could hardly see a few feet away. I do the same as Robert.

Are we seeing some members with pseudo user names? Seems like we have a lot newbies that are real experts.
One of the main issues I have hunting here on the mountain is the dreaded fog! Great glass does make a difference with that and low light situations.......
 
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Any sight will work during bankers hours. It's those last and first few mins of light that you need a good scope. I'm sure its not as good as some of you guys glass/scopes but the Vortex XBR satisfies me.

A lot of good points about identifying button vs doe spike from a doe and judging rack size. The angle of deer gets lost those last few mins. And it all boils down to shot placement if you can't see you can't place the shot.

Then there's staying sighted in very important imo. Has nothing to do with good glass but they seldom put good glass in a cheap scopes.

Those last few mins of daylight are the most expensive things on this planet followed by Crossbow rails per inch LOL.
 

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Again explain to me how identifying an animal makes any conceivable difference when you cannot legally shoot him? And two if you can legally shoot him then it's bright enough any binocular will do.
Not even close to being true. I hunt in a half section of land carved up into 5 acre lots and patches of swamp. I know exactly where my deer are coming from and going to. The density of people means 90% plus of the deer movement is nocturnal. The 10% that is within legal hours is 80% in the last 15 minutes and 20% in the first 15 minutes. Of that movement, 100% of it is in heavy cover. Those parameters mean that they are extremely consistent in where they go and the shots they present. The first year I started on the population reduction I killed 4 with heart shots. Three were put in just above the sternum and exited about the umbilicus. That shot REQUIRES knowing when the deer is facing you absolutely straight on, the exact range so that the up/down error is zero and a perfect sight picture. with what little light is left shining right straight up Bambi's butt hole. Trying that shot with an inferior scope is begging trouble! That shot with a scope designed for precision and night work is like using the cheap scope at noon. That kind of capability from your scope lets you study Bambi's body language and know where it's attention is focused and whether or not Bambi is worried about it. The shots that do not present that level of difficulty become a similar amount easier.

Trying to cheap out on the optics in that situation is begging to have one of your neighbors complain when the inevitable happens and Bambi shows up bleeding in front of their dining room window.

I shoot for my table. I shoot a lot of buck fawns because they are the least effect on the population at deer camp. Half of them never see their first birthday. The doe fawns suffer the same mortality, but when I am behind the rifle they at least are not getting shot by me.

I consider myself lucky in that most of the scopes that meet my requirements only run $1600-$2400. If I did what Duke does, I'd be buying the expensive ones with 56mm and larger objectives
 

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How many here have zero interest in crossbows costing less than $1000? Be honest - but hey, that is OK. If that is what you want to spend your money on, knock yourself out - buy whatever you want. Maybe you'll get your money's worth out of it, maybe you won't or maybe you'll just enjoy it so much that cost does't matter.
Well speaking just for myself, I have two crossbows. Both are Excals. I bought them because they were the most accurate I could find. The Matrix 330 is more accurate than the Matrix 380. Probably because the extra force applied by the 50-60 pounds of draw weight upsets the arrow a little more. Both were a little past $500 but both came with extras.
 

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On the subject of good glass, it blows me away that not one company makes a high end scope for xbows. Especially with their crazy surge in popularity the last couple of years. I'm not talking rangefinding scopes like the Garmin but high quality glass in general. I don't ever see a company like swaro getting involved. But a leupold vx3 xbow scope any where between 5-700$ would make a killing I'd imagine
 

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On the subject of good glass, it blows me away that not one company makes a high end scope for xbows. Especially with their crazy surge in popularity the last couple of years. I'm not talking rangefinding scopes like the Garmin but high quality glass in general. I don't ever see a company like swaro getting involved. But a leupold vx3 xbow scope any where between 5-700$ would make a killing I'd imagine
Vortex Viper XBR 2.5-10x44mm $699.99 ... Best crossbow scope glass I've ever seen; it bombed. Viper XBR 2.5-10x44 (vortexoptics.com)

Zeiss XR75 2-7x32mm one on ebay for $550.00; discontinued.
 

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Dang that vortex looked nice too
It is ... nice. A few of us have one and some have had the factory reset the parallax for crossbow hunting ranges of around 30 yards. Love mine.
197557
197558

Zeiss Rimfire on Volquartsen
Zeiss XB75
Vortex 2.5-10x Viper XBR with lens shade
Burris 4-16x AO
 

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I don't claim to be an optics expert. I do know that you have to pay attention to the glass, coatings and all other technological specs of the optics. I also know that wrangler jeans perform just as well as Jordach but at a much lower price. I was on a elk bow hunt in the rocky mountains and I had high quality glass and specs etc bushnell binoculars and the other fella had quality glass and specs etc swarovski. I alternated using mine and his and could not tell any difference. I tried like the dickens to see how his were better but they just weren't. My advice is to compare your options looking at long distances outside to see which ones work best with your eyes. Everyone's eyes are different including the shape and capabilities of our eyes so one binocular that's best for you may not be what's best for me.

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I don't claim to be an optics expert. I do know that you have to pay attention to the glass, coatings and all other technological specs of the optics. I also know that wrangler jeans perform just as well as Jordach but at a much lower price. I was on a elk bow hunt in the rocky mountains and I had high quality glass and specs etc bushnell binoculars and the other fella had quality glass and specs etc swarovski. I alternated using mine and his and could not tell any difference. I tried like the dickens to see how his were better but they just weren't. My advice is to compare your options looking at long distances outside to see which ones work best with your eyes. Everyone's eyes are different including the shape and capabilities of our eyes so one binocular that's best for you may not be what's best for me.

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As I said ... in the KI thread:
A friend of mine got shot off a mountain in Afghanistan. His sniper rifle with a Nightforce scope tumbled and pitchpoled down into the bottom of the ravine behind him. Actually passed him on the way down because it smashed his hand as it went by. He got back to base, next day took the beat-up rifle & scope out to check zero. Rig was off a couple clicks. Repainted the setup and went back to work.

Couple years ago I was swinging on a line of deer that hustled passed my climber and as I rotated the top of the climber broke loose nearly pitching me overboard. Benelli M2 & Zeiss 3-12x50mm Duralyt dropped 20 feet to the forest floor. Scope was still dead nuts on afterward.

THAT'S ... where world class glass kicks budget optics arse!!! It's what you DON'T see that costs all that money.
 

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All my good scopes and binos have been updated over the years, and never have I lost money on a single one of them. Some of those older optics were brighter and more powerfull than the ones that replaced them, but like the 10X50 Ultravids it comes at a reason, the Zeiss 8X42 HD's are nearly as bright, but weigh less than 1/2 what the Leica's did, and when I started using them it was obvious, I had no need for 10X where I hunt today, and could still use them at twilight long after the sun was down.

This is good as over the years my needs have become more clear. This mostly means bigger and more power is seldom what works best, or gets used the most in the field. But I have always been able to get everything I paid sometimes more for any of the quality high end optics I've owned, and always update them when I do with the same ot better optics, like the new Varmint rig I just finished this spring late winter. The Burris Signature 8-32X was never much use in the varmint field past about 20 to 24 power, and being older it was heavier. So it paid for the more modern Zeiss with 6-25xx optics, much more practical in the field, and gained the Z Varmint reticle!! This works like the crossbow reticles. once you chrono your load, you can go to their app, it will give you a 100 yard poi to set, and a power to set the scope once you enter the exact setup, and out to 600 yards it dead nuts, within 5 yards @ every 100 yardage, and less than 2 yards every 50 yard chevron, which is a dead yote or ground hog every time if you understand conditions! I don't see this ever changing with quality optics, always will be an investment, not a cost.
197682
 

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Total impulse purchase about 20 years ago walking through Cabelas with my wife. I just never came across a pair of 10x40 binoculars that where the size of my hand rubber coated with that flip down cover. Looked through them compared to a few other models and, had to have them. To this day they go back in their box after every use.
zeiss.jpg
 

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I have ... old Swarovski 8x30 SLC, very old Leica 12x50, about 10 year old Swarovski 10x42EL and recent Zeiss Victory 10x20 pocket binoculars. The Leicas weigh a ton and get used on a bench. The Zeiss are beautiful but so small they're uncomfortable to use except for something like a football game, never get used. The Swarovski 10x42 EL's have been a disappointment really. Lighter than the Leicas but about the same size, picture quality and field of view no better even though they're 20 years newer with all the latest & greatest glass and coatings. They basically duplicate the function of the Leicas but without as high magnification. They too rarely get used. Now if I had to glass out west the situation might change, but for me, the above is what it is.

Brings me to my ancient Swaro 8x30's. They're the binoculars that I'll grab if I have to carry a binocular. Lightweight, crisp clear picture quality, bulletproof and easy on the eyes.
 
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Yep I.D. those Leica's were H E A V Y! and rather large, but worth their weight in gold after the sun went down!

Today the 8x42 Zeiss are about all I turn to, unless I'm bow hunting, then the little glass in the Leica 6X R-1000 RF's are quiete usable for anything in the woods, I quite often use them to glass around my stand after legal time to make sure their are no deer around before I climb down, and they perform that task admirably. Plus anything inside 400 or 500 yards in all but total darkness will never go undetected.

But like you, that 8X for me is about all the power I want for free hand steady, easy on the eyes viewing. The Zeiss also have the newest coatings, and dust dirt and water spots are a thing of the past, I seldom ever clean the glass, and they get used weekly if not more. Then the 42mm are still fairly compact, but bright enough to glass in the twilight under clear ski's moon or not.

Them old Leicas 10X50's were heavy, but on a cloudy night quite capable of scouting open areas, and knowing what you were looking at! Like I said before, they paid for the new Zeiss, a worthy trade when you have to learn to adapt to keep being successful, and having your current needs met.
 
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