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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Help me out here. I read many posts regarding chronoing bows to see what speed it is producing. If this is used as a tool to insure the bow is shooting the same in September verses August then maybe I see some value in that. Or maybe to see if string and cables may be stretching over time. I see that. But to just focus on what speed the bow is shooting after changing arrow type or string and cables (although the timing marks tell you where you should be). Does it really matter? I read at times where guys are disappointed when their new bow rated at 400 FPS is only shooting 387. Anybody know what the accuracy is in the low cost chronos? +-10 FPS?

Go out in a cold morning with new lube on your string and cables, sit there for an hour and then take a shot at the animal to find you were spot on left to right but low by 3". WHAT!
The speed changed because the lubricant got "heavy" and caused more drag thus POI error. Did that amount of error change the fact your 16 point buck is laying next to you? Nope. 3" error on a pass through lung shot is still lethal.

If a chrono is used as a tool to verify what you once had and what you have now or another data point then I'm all for it. At what point do you do something with the results? Are you going to replace cables and strings that are in pristine condition because the bow is now 10,15,20,25 fps slower? Replace limbs?

My own personal perspective is; If my POI is trending low over time then time to check S&C. If I am trending with windage error then time to check timing, check fasteners, scope mount or possibly a defective optic. I could care less what "speed" I'm achieving. Never yet walked up to a downed deer and said "Fast enough for ya?" I have said "Nice shot"

So for those that need the exact number then God bless ya and chrono away. For me, my arrows tell me much more than any electronic device can. ;)
 

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Speed is a terrible drug that's hard to kick.
I recommend a quality rangefinder to help alleviate this terrible addiction.
I've used chronographs extensively for developing loads for my long-range rifles.
Most of the time the most "accurate" loads we're not in the upper velocity/pressure ranges. (Accuracy + rangefinder)
The only time I chronograph my crossbows is out of curiosity to see how close the range setting on the scope is compared to actual speed. (Again accuracy + rangefinder)
I personally will not take a longer shot with a rifle or bow without ranging first. If there's not time, there's no shot.
 

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I have two uses for a chronograph.
1 : To be sure different setups are tournament legal. ASA is 330 and IBO is 350 both with a 3 % margin
2 : When testing new tunes and differing experiments. It’s the only way to see gains or losses, and amounts.
Beyond that to me speed is irrelevant. I want and demand pinpoint accuracy, I could care less how fast my hunting arrow is actually flying.
 

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I have two uses for a chronograph.
1 : To be sure different setups are tournament legal. ASA is 330 and IBO is 350 both with a 3 % margin
2 : When testing new tunes and differing experiments. It’s the only way to see gains or losses, and amounts.
Beyond that to me speed is irrelevant. I want and demand pinpoint accuracy, I could care less how fast my hunting arrow is actually flying.
Amen & thank you!
The buck I just killed blew his lungs out as the result of a 458 gr arrow out of a sub 1.
Spot on shot at 30 yds with him looking right at me. Is that fast enough? Oh wait, I can't ask him because he's in my freezer! 😂🤣
 

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If I pay $3500. for a bow that they say shoots 450 fps with a 400 grain arrow and it don't shoot damn close to that its going back for refund. That's why I use one. I'm tired of getting lied to and screwed by large manufactures.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If I pay $3500. for a bow that they say shoots 450 fps with a 400 grain arrow and it don't shoot damn close to that its going back for refund. That's why I use one. I'm tired of getting lied to and screwed by large manufactures.
For 3500 bucks they should include a crono with the bow ;)
 

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TenPoint Viper S400 / Mission Sub 1 XR
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I use mine just to see how much subtle changes really affect arrow speed. I’ve found they don’t do much. Switching from 100 to 125gr heads, a few FPS difference at best. Tonight I shot my XR with my hunting arrows with the new crescent Lumenocks installed to check poi. Dead on. Dragon claws with lumenocks and 125gr rage hypo heads. 470 grains ish. 368 to 370 FPS. Bow is quiet as a mouse with that heavy arrow too.
 

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I only use my chrono as a baseline to help me speed up dial in process for HHA. I really don't use it much more then that. I don't care one bit about speed. Also, I don't use it to check for string stretch over period of time. All I have to do is check the ATA for string stretch. Usually, strings don't move that much. Just my personal experience with a chrono. If I had to do it all over again I would not buy one. Not necessary.
 

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I'm a little surprised to see you posting something like this that could somewhat dissuade people from owning/using a chrony. As if their use of a chrony is not up to established standards for some reason. Any use of a chrony is a good thing, IMO. Even if they aren't using it at your level of technical expertise....

And, I'm just guessing here, but I imagine that when people first get a chrony, the very first thing they will natural do is to simply test the advertised speed of their equipment and then probably post about it here or elsewhere. Those same people are probably quite likely to then use the chrony for more technical analysis down the road. But you have to take that first set of shots through it, right?
 

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I just love that tool. When I'm building a new string with different string material or strand count it helps to see the speed gain or loss. It's also great to see what speed a new setup has. New heavier broadheads new arrows and so on. When I started building real heavy arrows for dangerous game it helped to choose the right setup. It's just a great tool for me. I'm not into speed, I sold my last bow that was shooting more than 350fps with a hunting setup. The bows I use now, both Excaliburs only make 306-310 with my hunting arrows. So no speed chase for me just nice to know the actual performance.

Sent from my SM-A505F using Tapatalk
 

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ScorpyD ACLEUS 460
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Help me out here. I read many posts regarding chronoing bows to see what speed it is producing. If this is used as a tool to insure the bow is shooting the same in September verses August then maybe I see some value in that. Or maybe to see if string and cables may be stretching over time. I see that. But to just focus on what speed the bow is shooting after changing arrow type or string and cables (although the timing marks tell you where you should be). Does it really matter? I read at times where guys are disappointed when their new bow rated at 400 FPS is only shooting 387. Anybody know what the accuracy is in the low cost chronos? +-10 FPS?

Go out in a cold morning with new lube on your string and cables, sit there for an hour and then take a shot at the animal to find you were spot on left to right but low by 3". WHAT!
The speed changed because the lubricant got "heavy" and caused more drag thus POI error. Did that amount of error change the fact your 16 point buck is laying next to you? Nope. 3" error on a pass through lung shot is still lethal.

If a chrono is used as a tool to verify what you once had and what you have now or another data point then I'm all for it. At what point do you do something with the results? Are you going to replace cables and strings that are in pristine condition because the bow is now 10,15,20,25 fps slower? Replace limbs?

My own personal perspective is; If my POI is trending low over time then time to check S&C. If I am trending with windage error then time to check timing, check fasteners, scope mount or possibly a defective optic. I could care less what "speed" I'm achieving. Never yet walked up to a downed deer and said "Fast enough for ya?" I have said "Nice shot"

So for those that need the exact number then God bless ya and chrono away. For me, my arrows tell me much more than any electronic device can. ;)
Factually a chrono is a tool that has a number of significant uses. Sometimes it's related to tuning and performance, but other times it's all about doing accurate and true Momentum or Kintetic Energy calculations in preparation for hunting.

Every year we read and answer a number of threads about somebody quoting K.E. penetration numbers, but when we ask the obvious questions about how they came up with their numbers they usually quote the manufacturers speed rating on their crossbow plugged into a K.E. calculator program. The fact of the matter is they would be lucky if they were even luke warm with their calculations. The chronograph provides exact accurate speed input that provides realistic accurate results for these and other similar calculations.

If you decide to change arrow length, arrow weight or vane sizes, these all have a direct effect on arrow speed. These all have an effect on K.E. and Momentum. If you want to know for certain what those effects are, then the tool is necessary to understand how each change is going to effect your numbers.

When doing string and cable changes you can easily lose 10 fps. if not done correctly. The chronograph is one easy way to figure out something isn't right, so again it's a tool that's valuable when used properly to tell you when everything is working properly. It simply takes the guess work out of what you think your crossbow is doing versus what it's actually doing.

As for the rest of the information already posted above, you can substantiate a reason for or against anything if you want to. There's no point stating reason why they are necessary or why they are a needed tool. It's like trying to justify owning a hammer. If you have nails to drive in then you need a hammer. If you really don't want to buy a hammer you'll argue that a rock will do the trick and then explain how to use a rock to accomplish the same purpose.

If you want the right tool to accomplish any of the things outlined above, then a chronograph is the correct tool for those jobs.
 

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I have 3 bows and don't know how fast any of them are shooting.

Something i will break the chrono out for after the leaves fall. I'd like to see if broadhead drag is whats causing some broadheads to hit lower than other broadheads vs field tips. If in fact it turns out to be as i suspect its drag. This will be something i will start factoring in when i choose a broadhead.
 

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ScorpyD ACLEUS 460
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For 3500 bucks they should include a crono with the bow ;)
The only caveat with the adds by the manufactures that's relevant to your comment is in the fact that manufacturers will provide some information about how they achieved the speed rating they're using, such as arrow length and arrow weight, but as we both know they never provide any details in regard to vane type, vane length or at what distances they are measuring the arrow speed they're quoting. These factors all play a role in the speed rating, yet the majority of crossbows delivered are not likely to meet the rated speeds as advertised.

A manufacturer is generally going to set up and read their chronograph within 4 feet of the bench rested crossbow. They will fletch their arrows with 1.75" to 2" super low profile vanes to minimize vane friction. They could care less how well these fly because they're only concerned with the best possible speed they can attain at 4 feet passing thru the chronograph.
Speed and accuracy are two different categories, so in order to deliver a good performance in both categories it's often necessary to balance these two elements by increasing vane size a little while reducing speed slightly. However, that's not the case when it comes to advertising speeds.

The chronograph is still the best tool available for providing very accurate information when you're trying to achieve that optimal balance.
If that's not important to you, then you definitely have no need for the tool.
 

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You have your standards, I have mine. 3 inches may make no difference in the outcome if you are shooting to center the lungs. I shoot for pretty precise placement of my shot, be it bullets or arrows, and I damn well expect the shot to go where I wanted it and EVERY deer I have ever shot was checked for bullet/arrow path to see did I hit what I was shooting at. Every single one from the first to the last.

If my bow is shooting 3 inch groups it doesn't go hunting with me until it learns to shoot <1/2 inch at 20 yards. I was trained to make accurate ammunition for my rifles by a target shooter when I was 8 years old and since that time I have only taken shotguns out in a shotgun only zone that weren't sub inch rifles.

As an engineer I designed and built a portable chronograph back in the late 60s to tell me what I was loading. I hated not knowing what my loads were producing for velocity, and with chronographs being easy to come by and cheap I never workup a load for anything without doing it over a chronograph. Never!

I will admit to being OCD about shooting. I will also admit to being compulsive about knowing where to assign fault for when shots do not go where I want them. I find it fully as important to know WHY I had less than the outcome I expected so that I CAN fix what was wrong. I admit that I have not ever shot at a deer with any bow beyond about 20 yards. I have for absolute certainty never stretched a shot to even 25. I would bet on dying without having done so. All of this TOGETHER is why I habitually test bows and rifles for velocity. Yes, I understand that different animals shot identically will mostly tend to a generalized result but that some can for reasons beyond my ability to discern will be outliers in both directions from that "norm".

There are many examples of people who push the limits and challenge the boundaries of what we know, or think we know advancing almost all aspects of our lives. It is in all our nature.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
My example of 3" error is regarding the affect that other influences beyond zero error intent that can affect a shot. I didn't advocate harvesting an animal knowing you have a 3" error in shot placement.

For me, I build precision arrows and shoot long range. I can build the exact same matched arrows EXCEPT one with 1 degree offset and the other with 2 degree helix. They will both leave the bow at the same speed and pass through a crono 2-3 feet in front of the bow at the same speed. However, 80 yards down range I can assure you that the 2 degree helix will provide as much as 2.5" lower POI. So, for me a chrono has no value and as I said the POI is more critical to me rather speed. I don't care what the speed is, I care what the POI is, arrow to arrow.

Tryinharder uses this tool for competitive shooting requirements. I get that. Others use it for a multitude of reasons for what they have a need for. I get that. It's all about what YOU need the tool for.

I think we can all agree that most manufactures fudge their speed with lite arrows that are not realistic in the hunting world. My curiosity is at what point do we call out the manufacture and claim false information on true speed verses advertised? 5%, 10%, 15%.....

And,,,,,, my original statement regarding a chrono was: If a chrono is used as a tool to verify what you once had and what you have now or another data point then I'm all for it. BUT, in my case, this tool holds no value. If in your case it does, chrono away!
 

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The speed of a bow is and always will be everything to me.
Because crossbows are so ridiculously simple compared to a vertical bow there really isnt much more to it then how fast the bow is. If your getting 10 f.p.s speed variance rating off a chronograph your doing something very wrong.
I Have 2 models one that 29 year old and one that 7 years old both are plus or minus 3 f.p.s indoor out doors
does not matter as long as you shoot down the center and from the exact same distance to the device.
Shooting through another model that I dont own showed 4 f.p.s difference.

The importance of the chronograph is there is only one bench mark for crossbow because of lack of standards. All things being equal with a crank on the bow..f.p.s is all there is. Manufactures have been able to fleece the customer even with a chronograph available.
When you consider bow performance cam design, power stroke, limb deflection, string location are the only possible way to get more f.p.s. The way these items are arranged to get the best efficiency from a design is what the chronograph will show
in the correct persons hands.
Once you get that far, then the trigger matters, the size the way the bow shoulders, the feel of the shot etc etc.
If you take the f.p.s out of the of the picture all the other stuff is extremely easy to get.
 

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Tenpoint Siege, Ripper 415, Vortex,
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I bought one but honestly speed is less important to me than anything. I shot a compound for years shooting maybe 330 fps. Taken some nice deer. 40 yds is my max, maybe 50 if the shot is perfect and the deer is calm.
 

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I bought one but honestly speed is less important to me than anything. I shot a compound for years shooting maybe 330 fps. Taken some nice deer. 40 yds is my max, maybe 50 if the shot is perfect and the deer is calm.
What bow did you have that could shoot that speed with a hunting setup? 400gr and more. Most were advertised as 330 IBO.

Sent from my SM-A505F using Tapatalk
 
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