While we are talking about "perspective", lol Here's few more details. As I recall,[dangerous at my age] the DS all had to go back to factory on a recall for trigger issues. There was at least one guy, "BiggbirddVa" that had limb failure that could not get a replacement bow from Bowtech under warranty as they flat out didn't have any to ship him. Not sure, but think part of that problem was due to not having the trigger upgrades worked out yet. He got a replacement from Wyvern, the dealer he bought it from, and that was service above and beyond the call of duty, imho. Next, the whole Stryker line has no warranty if bought off Ebay.
Looking at the Excal pictured, they warranty their bows no matter how old or where you got one, have great triggers, comparatively speaking, and, if I'm not mistaken, have never had a recall.
Last I heard, the DS bigger earlier brother "The Stryker" [405 fps 155 ft lbs ke] had to go back to the factory if it needed pressed.
And, to top this all of, believe the DS is about twice the price of the Excal and know the Stryker is 3x that.
I don't think Moonkrket was trying to compare the quality of the two bows, and I know I wasn't either. I just meant to point out the axle length of the Bowtech compared to the tip to tip length of the Excal, or any recurve for that matter.
Bowtech did have some problems with their DS triggers early on but the problem was taken care of . Although they could not take care of the limb problem "overnight" as some folks might demand, I know for a fact that other companies don't offer instant replacement as a general rule and I will give you 3 examples from my personal experience and please DO NOT construe this as complaints or downing either company as you can see from my prior post, my opinion of Excals is they ARE great bows but they don't walk on water either
I purchased a Ten Point Phantom and the bottom left limb slivered on the concave side next to the riser after I had it about 5 days. I took it back to the dealer and he sent it back to TP. From the time I took it to the dealer until I got it back was almost 2 weeks. I thought that was good service on a major problem like that and the bow has been fine since. I had to re-work the trigger to get the creep (drag) out of it. This is a great crossbow and I would not hesitate buying another one.
I purchased an Excal Vortex months ago. The trigger was horrible on it. It had about 1/4" of creep before let off. I talked to Excal and they admitted they were having some problems with my model bow and were working on it. A few weeks later I was contacted and told they had remedied the problem and told me how they were going to do it. I enformed them that I had reworked my trigger myself and it was no longer a problem. Again, There was no instant bow sitting on my doorstep from them the next day after my initial call to them.
I have a personal friend that had a Vixen limb sliver on him and it took a few days to get it mailed off, replaced and mailed back. Again, no overnight replacment but I'd bet most reasonable folks would think the above service on problem products was acceptable.
From my experience with these products I think your comments are misleading to people that read your post ("Excal never had a recall") and that comment is simply not true.
I'm a big fan of all three companies and as a matter of fact own and shoot crossbows from all three. Each has features that IMO exceed the other two and each has features that I think could be improved.
My last point on this is that most super high performance products (cars as an example) tend to need more maintenance and the folks that buy them expect and accept that in order to get the utmost performance they are demanding and they are willing to pay a higher price for it. Some folks put more priority and emphesis on simplicity and reliability. I've never seen a recurve limb product, vertical or horizontal, that was not easier to maintain than more complicated higher performance compounds. We make our choices and the good thing is that we have many to choose from in a wide range of pricing and performance levels. I love them all.
"recall". From what I was told, Bowtech did ask customers to return Desert Strykers back that had problematic triggers. There are other more subtle ways to remedy product problems, like wait and fix them under warranty one by one as they are returned while not sending out any official recall notice. IMHO, that is the same as a recall. I know of one manufacturer (not Excal) that admitted having a problem (not publicly) with one of their products but never sent out a recall notice and actually did work out of the problem one by one. I guess you could say they did not have a recall
The width of that Bowtech is awsome. I wonder how it compares to my Tenpoint? Excaliber is the widest, as far as I know. I'm not sure how bad a wide bow is other than trouble walking to my stand! The Excaliber sure does make string changes easier!
to maintain, no doubt about that. String changing and re-serving the center serving is quick and easy just as is comparing a recurve vertical bow to a compound vertical bow. Like I said, I love them them all but having said that, there are certain hunting situations for me where the Excal is just too wide but in situations where I have to walk a mile to my stand, it's normally the one I take with me I'd be up the creek without a paddle if I had to narrow it down to just one crossbow. That would be tough but everyone is not a crossbow fanatic as I admittedly am. I'd be lost without my Desert Stryker and it's performance level.
BTW, you asked about TP's width. The Phantom is a very narrow bow similar to the Desert Stryker.
Moon, wasn't trying to "diss" the DS, most guys that have them just love them, from what I've read. The point I was trying to make is they had some problems early on and apparently weren't set up too well to handle them. It irks me to no end when these companies bring out these new models for the price they get and there are still problems w/ them. I'd of been just as "lit" on the trigger on your Vortex. How does a guy buying a used bow know if it's been upgraded or an original issue? As far as Excals go, a lot of people don't know that no matter where you buy one in the US if you have to return it, it ends up at Danny Millers. Dealing w/ him directly shortens the process considerably.
I installed dissapator bars on a Vixen for a friend of mine and a customer of Danny's. Nice guy.
There weren't that many DS's out when they discovered the problem with the triggers. I'd bet all of them were taken care of months ago. Bowtech is one of the fastest growing companies, if not the fastest, in the industry and from what I've seen over the years, really fast growth, although a good thing, can be very challenging, especially for customer service departments (from my own experience).
I have much respect for Bowtech, Ten Point and Excalibur and the folks that head up these companies. Crossbow sales continue to grow and I would guess that keeping up with this continued increasing demand may be a substantial "good problem" for all of them to have but that's just my opinion as I have absolutely no inside information on any of them. The wonderful part for us consumers is that we have a tremendous slection of product to choose from and it will continue to expand.
Shucks, no hard feelings about your post . I just wanted to tell the other side of the story from my experience and also from the standpoint that none of the companies being discussed can always offer instant replacement for problem product. Even though the expectations of the gentleman (He is actually an acquaintance) you mentioned was not met I would bet he still would not give up his DS for any other crossbow..............but I could be wrong
As to your question about upgraded triggers and how one would know. I think you are referring to my bows where most of them have modified triggers. I would never sell one of my bows without making sure the buyer understands that I mofified the trigger and it voids the factory warranty. Some of them have only a trigger set screw installed to adjust the amount of sear engagement. A few of them only required a lighter weight spring and parts polishing. One required quite a bit of careful work but it is just as safe now as it was when it left the factory and is a he-- of a lot more fun to shoot
"As to your question about upgraded triggers and how one would know. I think you are referring to my bows"
No, I wasn't. I was asking about the DS that had problems and how one would know if the bow in question had gone back and been upgraded or not. Along that same line of thought, Horton had a few problems w/ the Legacy series of recurves from rubber string stops flying off the mounts to what they claim was a bad composition of same rubbers that led to way early string /serving failure. Again, how do you know corrected or as issued? Few seem to have them, or post on them. Sorry for any confusion, personally, I'd like a trigger job you did. I reread my original post and guess it reads more like a hatchet job on Bowtech than what I meant it to. There's been more than a few offerings by different companies in the recent past that should have spent a little more time in R and D before being sold to the public, imo.
From what I saw on the problem triggers, It did not take many shots before the trigger started acting up. What I saw was a split second delayed firing and it started after around 50 shots. Mine was repaired in a timely manner.
I would think that manufacturers would keep records of warranty work done by product serial number. It should be as simple as a telephone call to get needed info.