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Discussion Starter #1
Just do like they did to me on another "archery" site. Got a warning email and it ended with this conversation...........

Crossbow threads are removed but not because of a bias against crossbows. It's because folks cannot discuss the topic civilly. XXX's standing order is to remove all crossbow threads.

You bet there's censorship. This is a private forum and, aside from the forum rules, the owner can do anything that he choses.
So send them on their way and keep the place clean.

Notice how they can't even come clean anyime the word xbow is mentioned. "They're not removed because of bias" and then "the standing order is to remove them"? All in one short paragraph! Too funny for words!!!!!!!
 

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I didn't mind the debates at all. To be honest, it brought a lot of new people from Michigan to Crossbow Nation. I think over the past few days I had like 275 new people check out the site, particularly those threads. Some were in favor of the crossbow and some were not. If 10% of them still hang around, thats a plus in my book. They will need a place to go to get information on the crossbow and between this site and all of its members, they found a great resource. Long live the crossbow. LOL:hurray::rolleyes::hurray::thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Well they're not as friendly over in a different MI state forum. I guess they think if they delete the posts it will all go away. :rolleyes:
 

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Let the anti's stay. It serves several purposes, the old adage, "Know thy enemy" is a very apt one and the other reason is that If by chance they can come up with a legitimate argument, then it's worth considering. I'm firmly pro-crossbow but if a valid concern was pointed out to me, I like to think that I would take it into consideration instead of just dismissing it in purely reactionary terms. As of yet, I have not seen any legitimate reason for opposing the inclusion of crossbows but if one is ever pointed out, it needs to be assessed in a thoughtful logical manner. My vote is somebody should only be banned if they are abusive.
 

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I don't much care what the anti's think or say anymore. I gave up arguing my point with them in MI. I dropped off a few bits of useful information, some data and some wisdom. And I may have even made a few points that no one had thought of. I don't think the hardcore anti's will ever listen. They have to be shown. Such is the curse of the crossbow...you either love em or hate em. The one positive thing we can do is educate those that WILL listen.
Thank god I live in Ohio where I have the freedom to choose my archery implement. I wish everyone had that freedom but there is always going to be a few states where the anti's can sway the vote. As more and more states get on board with the crossbow the others will change. Ohio and Arkansas had them how long before the next couple of states included them? With the current political momentum I expect half the US will be for full inclusion in the next few years. It's pretty easy to ignore a few states even when they have 30+ year old data collected but when you have 10 or 15 or 20 states it's not so easy to ignore.

One interesting thing I took away from the MI forum is there is a very large number of people that are passionate about inclusion of the crossbow into archery season. If it does not pass I expect several of those that can afford to do so will go hunt in other states. That is a good thing for the other states but MI will lose even more hunters. I considered having a raffle for an all expense paid Ohio hunt but that would just be mean.:rolleyes:
 
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Well, there is the odd I idea have. We could all put up money one state at a time and help fund the education process and to help beat the elitist attitudes of the state organizations and show them the door if they are not inclusive and think dividing hunters is a good thing. If we do not ALL stick together, hunting will be only a memory in this country. Especially if you see a big Demoncratic victory in November in the Federal and State levels. You will see the anti-hunters wanting their voices heard along with the anti-gunners. I have traveled all over this country and have seen it time and time again.
 

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Recurveman and other supporters -
Just because you are not from Michigan does not mean you can't help out in getting our laws changed.

Right now we need to get the current crossbow bill out of committee and up for a vote in the Senate. I think that an e-mail from an out of state hunter who might consider visiting Michigan and spending precious tourism dollars there instead of in another state might be of interest to our State Senators. If you support crossbow inclusion, please take just a minute and shoot off some e-mails to the members of the Natural Resources Committee, who hold the fate of this bill in their hands. use the name of the bill in the title HB5741-H2. emphasize the tourism aspect as a positive benefit of this bill.

A bill that was recently approved by an overwhelming 94-14 vote in the Michigan House of Representatives has now been referred to the Michigan Senate Resources and Environmental Affairs Committee. This bill (HB5741 H2) will allow for full inclusion of crossbows in any season where other archery equipment is permitted.


It’s important for you to contact each committee member in order to voice your support for this landmark legislation. Listed below are the names and email addresses of the committee members.


Senator Patricia Birkholz (Chair)
[email protected]


Senator Gerald Vanwoerkorn
[email protected]


Senator Bruce Patterson
[email protected]

Senator Ray Basham
[email protected]


Senator Mike Prusi
[email protected]
 

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We "gnats' are at work:)

Terry, as I told you before, you are not the first, nore will you be the last troll on this and other crossbow sites. I agree with UL's comments and his reasoning. What those anti-crossbow sites do does not concern me. I have better things to do than to try convincing closed minds to think logically and without selfishness. Other crossbow sites, however, won't tolerate trolling.
 

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I could hardly be classified as a trol. So is your attempt to insult the mods at this site because they didn't ban me. You speak out of both sides of your mouth. I will abide by Ul's rules and I'm not going to debate xbow issue, that way only one side will be presented here as it is on the bowsite.

They routinely and swiftly remove crossbow threads, which I disagree with. I will say that since visiting this site I have gained some insight. Both sides of this issue contain people that are full of venom.

You seem to want to use words that invoke emotion like selfishness. Are Americans selfish that we don't open up our borders and let anyone in that wants to come to America? I still prefer the word protect.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If you're in Ohio as you have in your info wouldn't that be enough insight for just about anyone? Unless you moved there last week you should be broken in on xbow use. :Angel_anim:


The only thing some like me have to add is I've seen before and after photos and there is little to no difference in how the hunting looks during bow season.
 

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Terry is now saying I was trying to insult UL

I think UL knows me better than that.

Bird started a legitmate thread talking about anti-crossbow sites and our anti-crossbow "friend" pops up with a totally irrelevant question "do you guys miss me"?:Angel_anim: I don't recall seeing any posts asking him for his thoughts on this thread. I think it's safe to say we already know by now what they are anyway.

Calling people ignorant and gnats tells a lot about the person spewing such accusations. That normally comes to surface when logical responses fizzle out:D
 

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The only reason I asked the question was to inject some humor, as I really am a pretty nice guy. Ignorant of the facts? Please know one has had more names cast at them than me.

Gnats, I did say that and it really wasn't meant to insult you and if it did I apologize, it really was an expression of speech as I had so many of you guys coming at me from so many directions.

I made some logical arguments, you just don't agree with my logic, just as I don't agree with yours.

I stated that I disagree with the bowsites position, I think we need to discuss it and maybe both sides can reach a compromise of some sort.
 

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"I stated that I disagree with the bowsites position, I think we need to discuss it and maybe both sides can reach a compromise of some sort."

Why then don't you start that ball rolling on Oh Bowsite, see how far that goes and report back? lol.
 

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The bowsite pulls anti-crossbow threads and I have infact complained about it. Some last longer than others and you don't get to know who the secret mod's are.

At one time lenghty discussion from both sides was allowed, now the threads have a much shorter shelf life. I'm for the discussion, not the mudslinging and name calling that happens on both sides, nothing is gained from that.


There's my report
 

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A little correction, Terry, they don't pull anti xbow threads just the ones w/ pro xbow posts. There are 6 threads running on Mi on xbow currently and here's a cut and paste job from NJ site that shows the thread ran about 200 posts tiil they got the voice of reason that needed silenced, lol

[ So I noticed that the crossbow thread with over 200 posts has been yanked. What a bunch of junk!

It's no coincidence that the thread showed overwhelming opposition to crossbow inclusion.

Shameful that it was pulled.]

The reason the thread was yanked is they were told the truth and didn't like it one bit.

Not to say that a private site can't do as it pleases, that's their right.
 

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You may be entirely correct regarding that thread I don't know as I very rarely leave the Michigan forum. But I can say with all certainty that I posted the u tube video of the Stryker crossbow at @405 fps and that was jerked almost immediately.

Infact many of us complained about the heavy handedness of the mods there and our president sent an email to the owner of the site questioning this and we never received a response.

So it really does happen on both sides, also I must add that I am very surprised that some of the post on the Michigan site have stayed up so long.

I have a different theory about why some get pulled. I think the bowsite has advertising pressure from some of its main advertisers that sponsor the site that manufacture both crossbow and compounds.

Personally I have to believe that the mods could delelte threads that weren't producitve or that violated some rule without pulling the entire thread. I for on think it can be productive to discuss the various views about the crossbow and its intriduction into Michigan.

I know its pretty much been discussed ad nauseam but still I think both side, if they maintain an open mind may learn something....

You right about it being a private site and the mods/owners can do what they want and I respect that. But I have seen a change in the way some of the threads are handled, we have had very lengthy threads in the past by pro-xbow people that were Michigan residents.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
awshucks said:
A little correction, Terry, they don't pull anti xbow threads just the ones w/ pro xbow posts. There are 6 threads running on Mi on xbow currently and here's a cut and paste job from NJ site that shows the thread ran about 200 posts tiil they got the voice of reason that needed silenced, lol

[ So I noticed that the crossbow thread with over 200 posts has been yanked. What a bunch of junk!

It's no coincidence that the thread showed overwhelming opposition to crossbow inclusion.

Shameful that it was pulled.]

The reason the thread was yanked is they were told the truth and didn't like it one bit.

Not to say that a private site can't do as it pleases, that's their right.
Exactly what I'm talking about. They pull ones where someone pro comes on and has data or info to back up what they say. They leave the xbow bash ones. Of course a misinformed opponent is no opponent at all. When they write letters to the powers be and it's the same old garbage it's probably discounted as more greedy hunter trash and treated appropriately. Maybe one day soon they'll be waking up and saying to themselves "what the heck just happened"? It's coming and they don't have a clue.:D
 
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