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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I see a lot of guys on here do aftermarket work from 3rd parties on their bows right after taking possession of a new bow. Triggers, cams, strings, etc. It seems there is no concern with voiding your warranty. Aside from the cost of doing such work (with shipping charges can add up to hundreds), if you have issues like limbs cracking, the manufacturer has an excuse not to cover it even though the work is unrelated.
How do you guys get past this thought process?
 

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Archer, I definitely fit that persona. I don't believe a single OEM that claims limb failure because of strings or nocks. I'm sure there are rare cases of that. To me it would have to be gross misuse to void a warranty. Everything today is about CYA. Are people destroying large number of limbs because of misuse? I don't believe so. OEM's can scream from the mountain top and I will not believe them. That's me. Also, I've done many, many mods and never had one issue with any Xbow. Now I had a bowstring explode because a two piece nock came apart and I didn't catch it. Put that arrow in to be shot and Kaboom, bowstring went pop, cams destroyed but cables and limbs were fine. Who's at fault? Is it the shitty nock design and me? I guess both. I had a source, paid to fix it on my dime and decided I will and never ever use that style of nock again. Used that Xbow after I fixed it, killed a trophy speed goat and after the hunt sold the Xbow. Two years later I came back to that company last December. However, I'm not using their nocks. No way!!!! OEM's telling me what nocks I have to use is pure BS! Not gonna do it. If they threaten me about warranty my Xbow goes up for sale immediately. I have lot's of choices. That's my mindset.
 

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We make our beds and sleep in them.

I’ve never owned a crossbow that I left bone stock but I’m willing to face the consequences if a failure occurs resulting from those modifications. My current Ravin R26 has R29 cables and string on it to slow it down to 352 fps. For me, it’s the perfect hunting crossbow.
 

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Here is a few examples. I'm shooting Barnett crossbows along with another brand. Barnett Ghost 410
has the step through Carbonite riser. I never use the rope cocker on any crossbow, but use the crank
cocking device with the crossbow mounted in a high quality rifle jig. There fore Barnett's riser did not get
physically twisted by cocking it on rough or uneven ground or uneven foot pressure. Contacting Barnett in
Florida, they requested the whole crossbow, not just the riser assembly. The shipping costs to the U.S.A. and
back to Canada was unreal and much worse now plus 6 week shipping time plus what ever Barnett's shop time.
I then inquired about purchasing the required parts has I have my own press. No way. In the long run some of
these situations it is cheaper to buy a new crossbow and have the extra parts.

I have since re enforced the Carbonite riser by plating and filling in the two large holes in the riser and up grading
to better after market string and cables. The Teflon strip is no longer used because due to the shape of the "J"
section and not enough glue on the Teflon strip it would wrinkle, causing damage to the cables. That area of all my
crossbows have the cables served with BCY .030 serving. No Teflon strips and no cable slide for me as the cable slides:
1)chew up the cables even though properly installed and lubricated. 2)By removing the slide I may have gained a few feet
per second in speed. Using a slide causes more resistance as the cables not only have to move back and forth when cocking
and shooting the crossbow which is normal, but the slide has to move forward and back as well.


Requesting new cam bearings due to faulty ones, some of which had little to no grease, I had to purchase
the cams as the bearings were already installed which was an added cost. Upon arrival, they sent the same
faulty bearings which had over size axle holes like the originals. I popped the bearings out and installed a one
piece, full length bushing with the proper axle hole instead of their two cheap flange bearings. The one piece
bushing gave full support to the axle which is mild steel. A slight bend to this type of axle can be easily straightened.

Another instance, I still had two years warranty left of their supposedly five years. Sorry, no parts. They suggested
that I purchase another crossbow. This I did but it was not another Barnett.

From reading various feed back I have the under standing Barnett customer service has improved since Plano
Synergy became involved.

Wishing you all the best.
Take care.
 

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I call it BS. To me that is about the same as going and buying a new 4x4 truck and the manufacturer saying your warranty will be void if you use something other than factory tires.
 

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I have yet to find a warranty that was worth the paper it was written on. Regardless of what is covered the manufacturer or seller always finds a way to nickel and dime you to the max. That being said, I have always done all my own work on all my bows. There is so much useful information available its almost impossible to run across a problem that you can't work through. I had my fill early on with paying people to get their education working on my equipment and doing shoddy work to boot. With every repair or mod you do, you become that much more familiar with your equipment. It ain't rocket science.
 

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I see a lot of guys on here do aftermarket work from 3rd parties on their bows right after taking possession of a new bow. Triggers, cams, strings, etc. It seems there is no concern with voiding your warranty. Aside from the cost of doing such work (with shipping charges can add up to hundreds), if you have issues like limbs cracking, the manufacturer has an excuse not to cover it even though the work is unrelated.
How do you guys get past this thought process?
For myself, I have researched the bow. I have never ever bought a new to the market bow.
Some bows I have owned have never had a reported problem beyond the user error. Others had one or two issues that I knew how to fix or get fixed as soon as I purchased the bow.

I dont put a lot of faith in warranty. There is always a way to weasel out and it's their word against yours in the end. So if they are going to screw you, then it doesn't much matter what you do.

There is also the consideration of the manufacturer as much as the bow at times. A company such as Excalibur has (and still does) simply addressed the issue despite what I may have done.
For instance...

Excalibur wont refuse a limb replacement just because you modified the trigger but other companies will. Seen that happen and heard of it happening. Excalibur wont refuse to replace a limb because I dont shoot their arrows either. I have had the opportunity to actually have seen that fact first hand. As long as the arrow is above minimum arrow weight, they dont care.
They do care about the nock type though. I shoot moon nocks and have never had an issue but Excalibur says nothing but flat nocks. If I blow the string, I am going to assume my error and I wont ask for warranty work. The moon nocks cant do anything beyond that so I dont care and neither do they.

If they did, I would consider that a strike against them as there is no justification. Same as shooting arrows that they dont make or installing a trigger that didnt come with the bow. None of that can cause a warranty issue as to breakages.
So... The manufacturer has a LOT to do with how I proceed and I dont buy from manufacturers who have a track record of screwing the customer on fine points of contention and small print.
 

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Oem strings and cables for the most part are pos. I put customs on,i use best nock and arrow combo I can. Tune xbow to get maximum performance...sometimes that is not maximum speed, fine line in there for just right. If limb blows I put factory [email protected] back on and send in for warranty repair. Put customs back on when returned. My TS 370 has never had an issue with over 3000. shots. That is why it is my primary. My backup on the other hand has had 2 limbs break. Sent it back in and had it back in a week both times. It is my ,only in an emergency backup. No way I am trusting it unless back to the wall. Recently got a DRT 385 That is fast and light. It will see some stand time this year. The backup needs a new home.
 

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Listen ... if manufacturers are pussy-footing around honestly backing their products with lawyer-ise and being assinine like having to use THEIR Black Eagle Executioners or them changing your string, or ridiculous proprietary accoutrements designed for the betterment of their profits, not the betterment of the product or your safety and efficiency; then in my opinion their deceptions, schemes and machinations nullify any honor in the relationship between you and them. You owe no fidelity to someone trying to screw you. You want to use an Easton arrow with a Firenock, a Marty or GAS string and do your own tune ups? Then some factory defective component breaks and you send the bow in with all the OEM accoutrements? YOU'RE "doing the right thing" in that relationship and making them do what they should have been doing from the getgo. Back what they should be backing. Companies that impose such directives are just foisting a form of despotism and corporate tyranny "because they can." Civil disobedience is the rebellion against that dating back to before the birth of Christ. People just ignore bad laws. People just ignore bad company policies. People used to know right from wrong.
 

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When you buy a product with a warranty and take it away, you accept their warranty and the conditions therein described. It is a contract plain and simple. If you choose to go outside that agreement YOU made, you then choose to opt out of warranty. What am I missing? It is not up to the manufacturer to chase down every single manufacturer of accessories and spend tens of thousand of dollars to have independent labs test non OEM products. We as a group ask for faster and more powerful bows. These bows are at the ragged edge of reliability and the materials available today and we just cannot expect to do whatever the hell we want the expect the other half of the contract to say it's ok, because it isn't. Expecting otherwise just shows off the age we live in, the age of entitlement. Does one really expect to use expressions like this is unacceptable or but, but, but or this should be with the other half of the contract holder when what you did, wasn't agreed upon?
If you did it, own it, plain and simple.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
When you buy a product with a warranty and take it away, you accept their warranty and the conditions therein described. It is a contract plain and simple. If you choose to go outside that agreement YOU made, you then choose to opt out of warranty. What am I missing? It is not up to the manufacturer to chase down every single manufacturer of accessories and spend tens of thousand of dollars to have independent labs test non OEM products. We as a group ask for faster and more powerful bows. These bows are at the ragged edge of reliability and the materials available today and we just cannot expect to do whatever the hell we want the expect the other half of the contract to say it's ok, because it isn't. Expecting otherwise just shows off the age we live in, the age of entitlement. Does one really expect to use expressions like this is unacceptable or but, but, but or this should be with the other half of the contract holder when what you did, wasn't agreed upon?
If you did it, own it, plain and simple.
"What am I missing"?
You are not "missing" anything and the purpose of my thread was to understand why some people choose to modify their bows (especially high end ones) and give up their warranty. Guys complain that they spent X amount of $$$ for their bow and it had an "issue". Claiming they should have NO issues because of their cost. Well they should be happy they still have a warranty. I have owned 6 different bows in as many years and i NEVER had issues with strings or cables or much else for that matter. I had a bow with "un-equal strength limbs" which effected cam timing and they were replaced under the warranty. I sold three of them with the original strings and cables. I just can't accept in my mind giving up a valuable warranty to gain a few FPS on some custom mods. If you buy a "cheap" bow then go ahead, take your chances and if your warranty is voided, go out and buy another. It comes down to what you think is important. I was trying to understand or get convinced that doing this is justified. I have not seen it yet. It's just a subjective state of mind I guess.
 

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When you buy a product with a warranty and take it away, you accept their warranty and the conditions therein described. It is a contract plain and simple. If you choose to go outside that agreement YOU made, you then choose to opt out of warranty. What am I missing? It is not up to the manufacturer to chase down every single manufacturer of accessories and spend tens of thousand of dollars to have independent labs test non OEM products. We as a group ask for faster and more powerful bows. These bows are at the ragged edge of reliability and the materials available today and we just cannot expect to do whatever the hell we want the expect the other half of the contract to say it's ok, because it isn't. Expecting otherwise just shows off the age we live in, the age of entitlement. Does one really expect to use expressions like this is unacceptable or but, but, but or this should be with the other half of the contract holder when what you did, wasn't agreed upon?
If you did it, own it, plain and simple.
Have you ... read the modern "Arbitration" directive you have to agree to from almost every provider these days? How you give up your right to sue them? You're left with zero choice. You want cable TV? A smartphone? A Dell computer, Sony TV, a new car or truck? A heart operation, a new kidney? You HAVE to sign away one of your main protections. Your right to sue, and your right to be included in a "class action suit." Your "accepting" one sided legal agreements where you have little or no options other than to do without is a patent injustice with no course of redress. If your code of ethics includes blindly subscribing to any authoritive edict foisted upon you, God bless you. I'm both impressed and a bit disheartened. If you think and accept Ten Point's Alpha or Omni nocks or Ravin's arrow abomination as an honorable or even honest attempt to improve upon Firenock's patent and give you a better & safer arrow, I think you're being naïve. Personally, I "question authority." My moral compass may not be that of Diogenes or even Honest Abe, but it seems to mark right, wrong and the points in between pretty clearly. Mark Twainish perhaps ...lol
 
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I kept all of my factory strings.;)
 

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"What am I missing"?
You are not "missing" anything and the purpose of my thread was to understand why some people choose to modify their bows (especially high end ones) and give up their warranty. Guys complain that they spent X amount of $$$ for their bow and it had an "issue". Claiming they should have NO issues because of their cost. Well they should be happy they still have a warranty. I have owned 6 different bows in as many years and i NEVER had issues with strings or cables or much else for that matter. I had a bow with "un-equal strength limbs" which effected cam timing and they were replaced under the warranty. I sold three of them with the original strings and cables. I just can't accept in my mind giving up a valuable warranty to gain a few FPS on some custom mods. If you buy a "cheap" bow then go ahead, take your chances and if your warranty is voided, go out and buy another. It comes down to what you think is important. I was trying to understand or get convinced that doing this is justified. I have not seen it yet. It's just a subjective state of mind I guess.
I completely agree with you! If you want to retain 100% of your warranty, don't change a thing. It is exactly how you said, " just can't accept in my mind giving up a valuable warranty to gain a few FPS on some custom mods. If you buy a "cheap" bow then go ahead, take your chances and if your warranty is voided, go out and buy another. It comes down to what you think is important. I was trying to understand or get convinced that doing this is justified. I have not seen it yet.". Some bows I leave completely stock like my Scorpyds. Some bows I don't waste a second doing whatever I want like my Excaliburs.
 

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Have you ... read the modern "Arbitration" directive you have to agree to from almost every provider these days? How you give up your right to sue them? You're left with zero choice. You want cable TV? A smartphone? A Dell computer, Sony TV, a new car or truck? A heart operation, a new kidney? You HAVE to sign away one of your main protections. Your right to sue, and your right to be included in a "class action suit." Your "accepting" one sided legal agreements where you have little or no options other than to do without is a patent injustice with no course of redress. If your code of ethics includes blindly subscribing to any authoritive edict foisted upon you, God bless you. I'm both impressed and a bit disheartened. If you think and accept Ten Point's Alpha or Omni nocks or Ravin's arrow abomination as an honorable or even honest attempt to improve upon Firenock's patent and give you a better & safer arrow, I think you're being naïve. Personally, I "question authority." My moral compass may not be that of Diogenes or even Honest Abe, but it seems to mark right, wrong and the points in between pretty clearly. Mark Twainish perhaps ...lol
Duke, I do not know what your litigation laws are like in the US, I am a little familiar with ours. What I know is that if you have a claim for under $35,000.00 you can file yourself and represent yourself. The other party will send a lawyer which will start costing them $5,000.00. If your claim is for $2,000.00 guess what happens? One of my customers had a 1991 BMW 318 which were notorious for head gasket issues. He filed a claim in small claims nearly 10 years after his initial purchase. That is 7 years past the warranty period. By law we have to go to arbitration prior court which is still costs a a lawyer. When BMW was served, they paid with zero discussion because they knew that our "common sense law" would allow the judge to use common sense if it went that far but the cost of a lawyer for a $2,000.00 claim is daunting. If I was denied warranty because I didn't register my bow, common sense tells me that registering the bow would not have prevented a warrantable defect and so would a judge. Corporate agreements are often not legally binding. I have registered one bow in my life and I did it for a lark (the original Swat). I refuse to be intimidated by some pencil neck litigator that gets paid per word written.
 

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When you buy a product with a warranty and take it away, you accept their warranty and the conditions therein described. It is a contract plain and simple. If you choose to go outside that agreement YOU made, you then choose to opt out of warranty. What am I missing? It is not up to the manufacturer to chase down every single manufacturer of accessories and spend tens of thousand of dollars to have independent labs test non OEM products. We as a group ask for faster and more powerful bows. These bows are at the ragged edge of reliability and the materials available today and we just cannot expect to do whatever the hell we want the expect the other half of the contract to say it's ok, because it isn't. Expecting otherwise just shows off the age we live in, the age of entitlement. Does one really expect to use expressions like this is unacceptable or but, but, but or this should be with the other half of the contract holder when what you did, wasn't agreed upon?
If you did it, own it, plain and simple.
I agree with you. That said, some companies are just ridiculous in determine what constitutes warranty void.
I know... The customer is obviously an idiot. Thats a given but still....
A little sympathetic shout out for the devil.
 

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And,,,,,,,,,,,, sometimes it takes changing something on the product for immediate improvement before something goes sideways and the product is damaged. Waiting for MFG's to decide on a corrective action can be like watching paint dry at times. In the meantime, broken product, no hunting for me! Isn't it nice to be the consumer at times......:rolleyes:
 
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